Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[simonmpoulton]

I'd never had an issue with a 777 in service before last week and then had issues twice in one week - once on Monday evening and the other on Friday morning. Reliability has taken a massive dip recently. Also quite why the Chester line does not have 8 car running during the peak when clearly it's needed is another head scratching thing - SDO still not working after so much time is not really a good excuse!

 

[nigelsporne]

Now the PTS is no more, RIP, how many 777s are in action on a daily basis? Is this likely to change materially with the next Timetable change?

 

[WirralLine]

I'd never had an issue with a 777 in service before last week and then had issues twice in one week - once on Monday evening and the other on Friday morning. Reliability has taken a massive dip recently. Also quite why the Chester line does not have 8 car running during the peak when clearly it's needed is another head scratching thing - SDO still not working after so much time is not really a good excuse!

Even with SDO 8 cars on the Wirral will be a rarity. There arn't enough units even if we assumed all of them worked perfectly and only those off for scheduled maintenance/exams etc were out of use.

I believe their original plan behind ordering less 777s than 50X was the better acceleration would mean slashing times meaning they could get rid of a couple of diagrams - ie same service but with less trains. As it turns out they struggle to keep to 50X times. A solution which was mentioned a while back would be to interwork lines again - Chester-Liverpool-New Brighton was suggested as a way to reduce the number of units. I was told this was ruled out based on knock on effect of disruption on one line to another.

 

[Sam 76]

I've just been on 777023 on the 1700 ish Chester service off Lime St. Full and standing from James Street physically no room at all for more to board at Hamilton Square. Quite literally crush loaded. We sat for about 10/15 minutes and were told 20-30 people had to get off otherwise the train will not move. A metro train that struggles with metro loadings. Fantastic investment, and no sign of the Chester line ever getting its peak capacity back either in their infinite wisdom to order less 777s than the 50X they replaced.

I believe it’s been mentioned that eventually Chester should get 2x8 cars in the peaks

 

[Bevan Price]

777s are more than capable of beating 50x station to station times (when the driver wants to) - the time loss is more often due to increased dwell times at stations. I was recently on a late running Liverpool - Southport 777 that regained over 5 minutes without missing any intermediate station.

 

[jamesst]

I'd never had an issue with a 777 in service before last week and then had issues twice in one week - once on Monday evening and the other on Friday morning. Reliability has taken a massive dip recently. Also quite why the Chester line does not have 8 car running during the peak when clearly it's needed is another head scratching thing - SDO still not working after so much time is not really a good excuse!

Excuse or not the SDO is the reason, the same reason Southport services have to turn in Liverpool.

 

[Sam 76]

777s are more than capable of beating 50x station to station times (when the driver wants to) - the time loss is more often due to increased dwell times at stations. I was recently on a late running Liverpool - Southport 777 that regained over 5 minutes without missing any intermediate station.

From experience the 777s even on the morning peak services still have time to sit at stops particularly when there is typically a longer distance between the two. For example Hightown after Formby and Hall Road after Hightown

 

[urban]

I suppose we may see a timetable overhaul at some point next year? It would be great to see faster journeys on the Southport and Chester lines especially

I wonder if we will ever see the return of the peak time extra services on the Southport line.

 

[simonmpoulton]

Dwell times is definitely the big killer for 777 efficiency - the acceleration is great but those doors are so damn slow to operate. They can recover time easily when they skip stops on the Chester/Ellesmere Port lines to get back to time.

 

[MR-507508]

I suppose we may see a timetable overhaul at some point next year? It would be great to see faster journeys on the Southport and Chester lines especially

I wonder if we will ever see the return of the peak time extra services on the Southport line.

I believe the peak time extra services on the Southport line are in the long-term plan for the Class 777s, with them being used to replace the 2 x 8 Cars which are planned to operate on the Ormskirk line during the morning peak (again in the long-term plan).

 

[absolutelymilk]

Dwell times is definitely the big killer for 777 efficiency - the acceleration is great but those doors are so damn slow to operate.

Is there a plan to speed up the doors or is that just how they are designed?

 

[Skie]

From experience the 777s even on the morning peak services still have time to sit at stops particularly when there is typically a longer distance between the two. For example Hightown after Formby and Hall Road after Hightown

Anyone who has used them regularly will be familiar with this now. On a quiet day with no issues they will frequently arrive early and have to sit doing nothing once boarding is complete to avoid departing too early.

Of course they still have issues, I walked to the station this morning to catch the first train of the day and ended up walking straight home to take the car to Lime Street instead as they are having fun with some frost again. Barely caught my connection.

 

[karlbbb]

Probably a combination of ice and poor reliability, but this morning is appalling for the 777s. Got 3/4 lines practically at a standstill with trains getting sent back to depots left, right, and centre.

 

[baldyman26]

Was all ice this morning according to a guard, if the 3rd rail is icy, no trains are moving so for once nothing to do with 777 reliability.

 

[Vinnym]

Was all ice this morning according to a guard, if the 3rd rail is icy, no trains are moving so for once nothing to do with 777 reliability.

Seems strange then that on the Merseyrail website they were reporting broken down train at Old Roan and later a broken down train at Kirkdale.

 

[Skie]

To be fair, my car was like a block of ice despite setting it to start defrosting as soon as I realised the trains were off. But this was forecast a good couple of days ago now, hardly a surprise freeze.

 

[73001]

It was the 3rd rail killer where you get freezing conditions then sleety rain that melts a bit then refreezes just before the trains start running. If there is any de-icer on the 3rd rail it washes off (are they de-icing these days?) and then forms a layer of black ice. I've seen this happen a handful of times over the last 30 years or so.

 

[Pacef8]

Anyone know what this schedule through the night is ?
New brighton to new brighton

Realtime Trains | 5T77 0025 New Brighton to New Brighton | 25/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 5T77 0025 departure from New Brighton to New Brighton on 25/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[simonmpoulton]

Maybe it's related to checking the Chester line after the flooding today closed it between Chester and Hooton?
Might be 507023 doing this work given it's at New Brighton!

 

[jamesst]

Just a path for a test train, it's rarely used

Anyone know what this schedule through the night is ?
New brighton to new brighton

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:s86807/2024-11-25/detailed

 

[Northerngirl]

Has a /1 being used on Southports earlier today, I've just seen one at Kirkdale with Southport on the destination screens

 

[TheSel]

Is the reworking of services from Hunts Cross related to platform extensions south of Liverpool?

I believe one of the problems is the starter signal at Hunts Cross which needs to be re-sighted.

Is there a time scale for this being done?

Specifically re the above - but other mails in this thread have similarly commented on the 'temporary recast' of the Merseyrail Northern Line timetables (i.e. to link the Hunts Cross - Liverpool Central section to Ormskirk, rather than Southport services).

The new National Rail Timetable (downloadable via this link) suggests that the current arrangement will remain in place until (and including) Sunday 6 April 2025. The same documents show through services Southport - Hunts Cross and vice versa resume on Monday 7 April.

Tables 082 (Southport) and 083 (Ormskirk) embedded below for interest.

 

[karlbbb]

I've noticed of a morning there are still one or two ECS moves from Kirkdale over to Wirral lines (5C06 this morning, for example) - is this simply because the remaining 507s are taking up depot space at Birkenhead? Once they're gone, will those moves stop?

 

[jamesst]

I've noticed of a morning there are still one or two ECS moves from Kirkdale over to Wirral lines (5C06 this morning, for example) - is this simply because the remaining 507s are taking up depot space at Birkenhead? Once they're gone, will those moves stop?

This is more due to kirkdale now being the main maintenance depot and to allow transfers between the 2 sides for milage/operational reasons, the same reason that one or 2 50xs used to start/finish at kirkdale.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Wonder when this thread will be locked because everything is 777 operated? At present there still seems to be an ad hoc 507 substitute.

 

[DJH1971]

Wonder when this thread will be locked because everything is 777 operated? At present there still seems to be an ad hoc 507 substitute.

Not for a great deal longer

 

[Sam 76]

Worth noting that availability seems to be improving on the 777 front. 3x8 cars were operational on Southport this morning. The most we have had in a while

 

[nigelsporne]

Has 035 appeared in service yet?

 

[TheSel]

Further to my post #7522 above. Merseyrail have now published the special Boxing Day timetable, which will see through running for one day only between Southport and Liverpool South Parkway. Full details here (towards the bottom of the page) Essentially every 30 mins 0857 - 1827 from South Parkway, and 0858 - 1758 from Southport.

Does anyone know whether these will see the first 8 car operations south of Liverpool Central? As only selected stations are open that day (specifically only South Parkway and St Michaels) is the absence of Selective Door Opening still a problem at those stations?

 

[peter.owen]

Merseyrail have just published this.

Ahead of the roll out of further 8-car trains onto the Hunts Cross line, Merseyrail will be undertaking essential testing in partnership with Stadler and LCRCA.

This will mean that on Monday 9, Tuesday 10 and Wednesday 11 December there will be no trains running on the Hunts Cross line after 21:00. A rail replacement bus will be running between Hunts Cross and Moorfields calling at all stations with the exception of Liverpool Central.

You can find the times of the last trains and rail replacement bus timetables below.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused.