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Bus driver dies after incident at Elgin bus station

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GusB

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4 years and 4 months sentence.

A teenager who fatally assaulted a bus driver after being refused permission to travel because he was drunk has been sentenced to four years and four months in custody.
The teenager was quickly traced by police and was initially charged with murder, but later pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of culpable homicide.

Passing sentence, judge Lady Hood said statements from Mr Rollinson’s family described him as “a true gentleman with a heart of gold and a wonderful husband and father”.

She said the family “have been shattered by their loss”, and that due to the circumstances of his death they had been unable to be with him when he died.

“Nothing said or done here today, and no sentence I can pass, will ever be enough to help Mr Rollinson’s family with their devastating loss,” the judge added.

Lady Hood told the youth “the harm which resulted from your actions is of the highest level”, and sentenced him to four years and four months in custody.
 
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Vespa

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This is rather over the top. We're talking about a single individual here and in no way are they representing the behaviour of all teenagers.

What happened last night was awful, but please do not tar everyone with the same brush.
Indeed I work with teenagers in a youth organisation and many of them are young adults who prefer to do something positive with their life.

There's good and bad in every age group, the problem is not youth behaviour etc it's the justice system that's too soft on punishments and instead of nipping criminal behaviour in the bud, they're allowed to escalate their behaviour til it reaches it's tragic conclusion.

4 years and 4 months doesn't even touch the sides of effective punishment, he will only go on to more serious crimes once out in 2 years and 2 months with "good behaviour" he only pleaded guilty to get a discount on his sentence, it's effectively a slap on the wrist, he has already escalated from his previous conviction.

Very sad news and sympathy for his family who must feel cheated by this.
 
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Olivine

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Indeed I work with teenagers in a youth organisation and many of them are young adults who prefer to do something positive with their life.

There's good and bad in every age group, the problem is not youth behaviour etc it's the justice system that's too soft on punishments and instead of nipping criminal behaviour in the bud, they're allowed to escalate their behaviour til it reaches it's tragic conclusion.

4 years and 4 months doesn't even touch the sides of effective punishment, he will only go on to more serious crimes once out in 2 years and 2 months with "good behaviour" he only pleaded guilty to get a discount on his sentence, it's effectively a slap on the wrist, he has already escalated from his previous conviction.

Very sad news and sympathy for his family who must feel cheated by this.
Regrettably as the article goes on to say, the driver was of significantly bad health, had stamped on his phone having grabbed it, so in reality it’s bad luck on both sides of the argument.
 

LowLevel

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Regrettably as the article goes on to say, the driver was of significantly bad health, had stamped on his phone having grabbed it, so in reality it’s bad luck on both sides of the argument.
The kid had previously assaulted another bus driver, clearly had form and having been refused access started filming this driver. It's not bad luck, this type of feral behaviour should have consequences for the perpetrator before it gets to this point.

Allowing feral behaviour to propagate is how you get to this point. If the youth can't behave in a civilised manner it should be removed from civilised society.
 

mb88

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Regrettably as the article goes on to say, the driver was of significantly bad health, had stamped on his phone having grabbed it, so in reality it’s bad luck on both sides of the argument.
‘Bad luck’? Seriously?
 

GusB

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4 years and 4 months doesn't even touch the sides of effective punishment, he will only go on to more serious crimes once out in 2 years and 2 months with "good behaviour" he only pleaded guilty to get a discount on his sentence, it's effectively a slap on the wrist, he has already escalated from his previous conviction.
I agree that it seems quite lenient and I can understand that the family would feel cheated. The sentence does seem to be within the guidelines, though. The judge said that the sentence would have been 6 years and 6 months (after taking into account his age) but that it was reduced because of the guilty plea. (See the final paragraph of her remarks, quoted at the end of this post)

Release isn't guaranteed after 2 years 2 months because the sentence was for more than 4 years. Parole will be considered at the halfway point but if it isn't granted the early release point is 6 months before the end of the sentence).

Prisoners serving a sentence of four years or more are considered by the parole board for parole after serving half their sentence. If the parole board grants parole, the prisoner will be released on licence. If parole is not granted (at this point or at a later parole hearing), then the point at which the prisoner is released will depend on the date that they were sentenced:

if the prisoner was sentenced before 1 February 2016 and is not released on parole, then they are automatically released on licence after serving two thirds of their sentence. The prisoners remains on licence and can be recalled to custody at any point until the expiry of their sentence

if the prisoner was sentenced on or after 1 February 2016 and parole is not granted, then they are automatically released on licence when they have only 6 months of their sentence left to serve. The prisoner remains on licence and can be called back into custody at any point until the expiry of their sentence

I've included the judge's remarks here:
Nov 18, 2024

At the High Court in Inverness, Lady hood sentenced XY to 4 years and 4 months' detention after he pled guilty to the culpable homicide of Keith Rollinson.

On Sentencing, Lady Hood said:

"On 18 October 2024 you tendered a plea of guilty by way of accelerated section 76 procedure to a charge of culpable homicide.

"On 2 February 2024, you had congregated with other youths in Elgin town centre, where you consumed alcohol and became intoxicated. You sought to take a bus home, but you were refused travel because of your intoxication. You protested and remonstrated with the bus driver, Mr Keith Rollinson, and you pointed your mobile telephone in his face and apparently attempted to film him. Mr Rollinson grabbed the telephone from you, and there was a physical struggle during which you head butted Mr Rollinson. When the telephone was smashed on the ground, you completely lost control and during a frenzied attack you rained punches on Mr Rollinson’s head and body. Mr Rollinson never retaliated, and you were pulled away by another youth. Very shortly thereafter Mr Rollinson collapsed to the ground, and tragically he never regained consciousness. It was subsequently discovered that Mr Rollinson had significant heart disease, and was at risk of a sudden fatal cardiac event at any time. The medical evidence is that it was most likely that the physical altercation with you had ultimately led to him suffering cardiac arrest.

"Mr Rollinson was 58 years at the time of his death. He had previously served with the RAF, but latterly had been working with Stagecoach Coaches, based at Elgin bus station. The Victim Impact Statements submitted by Mr Rollinson’s wife and daughters speak of their memories of a true gentleman with a heart of gold, and a wonderful husband and father. The family have been shattered by Mr Rollinson’s loss, and the extent of their grief is harrowing to read. The circumstances of Mr Rollinson’s death prevented the family being with him, or saying a proper goodbye, when he passed. They say that ‘The little things in life have been changed forever, and the big things in life don’t bear thinking about’. Nothing said or done here today, and no sentence I can impose, will ever be enough to help Mr Rollinson’s family with their devastating loss.

"You are now 16 years of age, having been 15 years old at the time of the offence. You were said to be well-known to police, social work and the local Children’s Reporter. You had been reported to the police on numerous occasions for youth offending, including for a previous assault of a bus driver. You first appeared on petition for this offence on 5 February 2024, at which time bail was refused. You were fully committed on 13 February 2024. A letter indicating a desire to plead guilty to the indictment was submitted to the Crown on 25 September 2024. Your background circumstances are set out in a detailed Criminal Justice Social Work Report. A report has also been prepared to inform me both of your background, but also of your behaviour and progress in the Secure Accommodation Centre where you have been placed. I take the terms of both of these Reports into account. You told the author of the CJSWR that the offence which you have committed will stay with you forever, and that you will not lift your hands again – although the concern of the author of that report is that under the influence of alcohol, you could behave in that way again. The CJSWR recounts that you began using alcohol at the age of around 13 years, and quickly also began using cannabis. Your school attendance was poor. In 2022, a Children’s Hearing made you subject to Compulsory Measures. Although you made progress, this was not sustained or consolidated. Your time on remand in secure accommodation has, however, provided you with stability, security and routine. You have undertaken courses and qualifications, and your behaviour has been commented upon positively. You feel that you have improved your mental health, with which you have previously struggled. This is confirmed by the report from the Secure Accommodation Centre, which records the dramatic difference in your behaviour and application to studies and training. You told staff of your desire to use your time there as a springboard to change the course of your life, and do something positive. For your own good, and for the good of society as a whole, you have to stay on that path, of now making positive and productive use of your time, so that you may become a productive member of our society in due course.

"I have listened with great care to the submissions in mitigation advanced this morning on your behalf by Ms McCall KC. I take into account the submissions on the circumstances of the offence, and the impact of this on an assessment of your culpability. As you understand, the harm which resulted from your actions was of the highest level. Ms McCall has also highlighted the terms of the two reports, and in particular their possible interaction with applicable Sentencing Guidelines and the possible disposals open to me.

"I have taken into account that you have not previously been sentenced to imprisonment or detention. Given your age, I have regard as I am obliged to do, to the Guideline on Sentencing Young People. As you will appreciate, given the nature and seriousness of the crime of which you have been convicted, detention is the only appropriate method of dealing with you. However, I then must bear in mind that the Sentencing Guideline specifically indicates that “If a custodial sentence is imposed on a young person, it should be shorter than that which would have been imposed on an older person for the same, or a similar, offence”. I also do not take the view that the test for imposing a Supervised Release Order or an Extended Sentence would be met, given your age and the assessment of risk in the CJSWR.

"In setting the length of the sentence of detention, I take full account of all that I have heard. A full discount also requires to be applied, to reflect your tendering of a plea at the earliest opportunity. In the whole circumstances, and having specific regard to your age, I would have sentenced you to a period of detention of 6 years and 6 months. However, as I have just indicated that must be modified to take account of your tendering of a guilty plea at the earliest opportunity. Accordingly, I now sentence you to a period of detention of 4 years and 4 months. The sentence of detention will be backdated to 5 February 2024, that being the date when you were first placed in secure accommodation in relation to this case."
 

Tetchytyke

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Regrettably as the article goes on to say, the driver was of significantly bad health, had stamped on his phone having grabbed it, so in reality it’s bad luck on both sides of the argument.
You take your victim as you find them. It's not "bad luck". There's also nothing to suggest the driver had stamped on the youth's phone.

4 years 4 months for such an offence is an absolute disgrace. I don't say this often but, in this case, it absolutely is.
 

PG

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Where does it say in the article the driver stamped on the youths phone?
There's also nothing to suggest the driver had stamped on the youth's phone.

The BBC article omits that specific detail, however this STV news piece does contain mention of it.
The court heard that the youth started to film Mr Rollinson with his mobile phone.

Lady Hood heard how Mr Rollinson grabbed the phone and the two started to struggle.

The youth headbutted Mr Rollinson, who threw the phone onto the ground before stamping on it several times.

Describing the attack, Mr Keenan said: “At this the accused completely lost control, raining punches on the deceased’s head and body.

“The deceased did not retaliate but tried to get away from the accused. The accused was later found to have a fractured bone in his hand.
 

Ghostbus

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The 16-year-old, who was 15 at the time .... had spent the evening drinking with other youths in Elgin town centre, and had gone to the bus station on St Giles Road with the intention of catching the last bus home.
Says a lot that such an activity somehow goes unnoticed, unreported or unactioned, leaving the bus driver to deal with the consequences.
Chief Inspector Mike McKenzie, area commander for Moray, said: “Since Keith Rollinson’s death, we have been working closely with a range of partners to tackle youth disorder in Elgin, particularly around the bus station.
Why did it take a death for this to happen? It also bears repeating, this youth "had previously been reported to the police for assaulting another bus driver." as per this post.
 

Tetchytyke

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The BBC article omits that specific detail, however this STV news piece does contain mention of it.
Thanks.

It does explain a bit more how it escalated. But it doesn't change my opinion that, even taking everything into account, 4 years 4 months is unduly lenient.
 

Eyersey468

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Agreed the sentence is too lenient though I suppose the judges hands are tied by the guidelines. As far as I know though a sentence of more than 4 years is never spent even for a child, so he will have to declare this for the rest of his life
 

Falcon1200

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4 years 4 months for such an offence is an absolute disgrace. I don't say this often but, in this case, it absolutely is.

With which I very much agree; I could not believe it when I saw the length of the sentence. However, given the youth's previous conduct, is there any hope that incarceration of any duration, or anything else, will change his future behaviour?
 

PG

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With which I very much agree; I could not believe it when I saw the length of the sentence. However, given the youth's previous conduct, is there any hope that incarceration of any duration, or anything else, will change his future behaviour?
Referring to the Judge's remarks linked in post #38 - I think that rather depends upon where he spends his incarceration. If he remains at the same Secure Accommodation Centre then it seems like a distinct possibility.
 

DaveHarries

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I've included the judge's remarks here:
[.....]
In the whole circumstances, and having specific regard to your age, I would have sentenced you to a period of detention of 6 years and 6 months. However, as I have just indicated that must be modified to take account of your tendering of a guilty plea at the earliest opportunity. Accordingly, I now sentence you to a period of detention of 4 years and 4 months. The sentence of detention will be backdated to 5 February 2024, that being the date when you were first placed in secure accommodation in relation to this case."
4 years and 4 months for this is far too short but neither sentence would be long enough. I also wonder if whoever had sold (if "XY" had purchased it) or otherwise purchased the alcohol for "XY" should bear some culpability for this as well given that buying alcohol for anyone under 18 is an offence in itself.

I hope that the sentence is appealed for being too lenient.

Dave
 

GusB

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4 years and 4 months for this is far too short but neither sentence would be long enough. I also wonder if whoever had sold (if "XY" had purchased it) or otherwise purchased the alcohol for "XY" should bear some culpability for this as well given that buying alcohol for anyone under 18 is an offence in itself.

I hope that the sentence is appealed for being too lenient.

Dave
I'd imagine that the police would have asked how the alcohol was obtained as part of their enquiries. If the alcohol was supplied directly to the offender by a retailer, it's fairly certain that action will be taken. It gets a bit muddier if a third party makes the purchase, especially if there is no suspicion that the booze will be supplied to someone under 18 and the purchaser is able to prove that they're old enough. I know that the local authority does conduct regular test purchases to ensure compliance and I've witnessed the sale of alcohol being refused if there are youngsters hanging about (I've done it myself).

There is also the possibility that the alcohol was shoplifted, or simply just taken from home.
 

Bungle965

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Please keep on-topic, the last few posts are probably better discussed in General Discussion, if anyone wants to continue with this PM me and I'll spin it off into a different thread.
 

alex397

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I do wonder how any bus drivers reading this feel. They have to put up with so much, especially on lates, and especially with ferals such as the one mentioned here. It seems there is little to no support from the police when issues occur.
Hopefully, behind the scenes, a lot is being done to support and reassure drivers at Elgin. I reckon i’d find it incredibly difficult to go to work if a colleague had been murdered while working. Especially if some of those passengers on their bus may be friends or family of the vile specimen who committed this crime.

It’s a shame that the police and other authorities often tend to just be reactive rather than proactive when it comes to anti-social behaviour, especially relating to youths. It’s brushed off as ‘kids will be kids’ until they seriously assault or kill someone. This country has a real problem with this.
 

Eyersey468

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I do wonder how any bus drivers reading this feel. They have to put up with so much, especially on lates, and especially with ferals such as the one mentioned here. It seems there is little to no support from the police when issues occur.
Hopefully, behind the scenes, a lot is being done to support and reassure drivers at Elgin. I reckon i’d find it incredibly difficult to go to work if a colleague had been murdered while working. Especially if some of those passengers on their bus may be friends or family of the vile specimen who committed this crime.

It’s a shame that the police and other authorities often tend to just be reactive rather than proactive when it comes to anti-social behaviour, especially relating to youths. It’s brushed off as ‘kids will be kids’ until they seriously assault or kill someone. This country has a real problem with this.
I'm on the long distance coaches these days but did work on local bus for many years and do the occasional day on local. Hearing about this made me feel there but for the grace of God, it could so easily have been me or any of my colleagues in this situation
 

jon0844

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It’s a shame that the police and other authorities often tend to just be reactive rather than proactive when it comes to anti-social behaviour, especially relating to youths. It’s brushed off as ‘kids will be kids’ until they seriously assault or kill someone. This country has a real problem with this.

I was writing about the effects of not taking anti social behaviour seriously probably 15-20 years ago (it isn't a recent issue) but we've now got a generation or more that are perfectly find with being anti-social, or have worked out (and now told their friends and peers on social media) that if you kick off you'll likely get away with it.

How many times have we heard of people getting penalty fared for something deemed fairly trivial, while someone else who is an habitual nuisance just threatens staff or barges through a gateline and gets away (bar the incredibly rare situation where the police might be nearby, but even then we have the same issue of them not taking it seriously - or the legal system not treating it seriously).

This is how we have shoplifters taking an age to fill multiple bags for life and walking out right next to the security guard that can't intervene, and all the other issues that invariably will lead every now and then to someone getting hurt or killed - and we all then look on about what a tragedy it is. It is, but the causes have not occurred overnight.
 

PG

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Hopefully, behind the scenes, a lot is being done to support and reassure drivers at Elgin

It would appear that some drivers feel otherwise, going by this P&J article.
We have spoken to several Moray and Aberdeenshire Stagecoach employees who have described ongoing safety problems that they say are not being addressed.

They also called for new laws to be introduced that would ban persistent troublemakers from buses.

The workers – who spoke on the condition of anonymity, fearing for their jobs – said problems have gotten worse, not better, in the wake of Keith’s death last February.

They also claimed bosses at the firm are ignoring employees’ safety concerns that have been raised as a result of the tragedy.
 
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I do wonder how any bus drivers reading this feel.
As a former driver I rarely post on here, those who know me will know why.

Disappointed but not surprised with many of the posts in this thread.

With Police Scotland who appear to be unaware that bus station in the evenings tend to attract trouble.

I mean, who could possibly be aware of that?
It would appear that some drivers feel otherwise, going by this P&J article.
"We have spoken to several Moray and Aberdeenshire Stagecoach employees who have described ongoing safety problems that they say are not being addressed."

Of course they are not being addressed, nothing will be done, a few meaningless statements about working with partners, our thoughts are with his family,safety of our employees is paramount and zero tolerance are trotted out then it's back to normal.

Want actual actions have they made?

Edit,

One thing I am not disappointed with is the sentence, given the crime he is convicted of and his guilty plea, it's about the top end of what I would expect.

Hopefully he has a really bad time, big man in Elgin does not translate to big man inside and I hope has has a horrible time and life.
 
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PG

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Of course they are not being addressed, nothing will be done, a few meaningless statements about working with partners, our thoughts are with his family,safety of our employees is paramount and zero tolerance are trotted out then it's back to normal.

Want actual actions have they made?
They could put their hands in their pockets and employ Mobile Travel Safe Officers like East Midlands Railway do at weekends on the Robin Hood line. But that costs money which corporate head office won't approve.
 

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Disappointed but not surprised with many of the posts in this thread.
Which posts have disappointed you? The general concensus seems to be that the accused deserved everything that was coming.

With Police Scotland who appear to be unaware that bus station in the evenings tend to attract trouble.

I mean, who could possibly be aware of that?
As a matter of interest, how is your own local police force performing where anti-social behaviour is concerned? I'm guessing that it will be as stretched as every other police service in the UK.

"We have spoken to several Moray and Aberdeenshire Stagecoach employees who have described ongoing safety problems that they say are not being addressed."

Of course they are not being addressed, nothing will be done, a few meaningless statements about working with partners, our thoughts are with his family,safety of our employees is paramount and zero tolerance are trotted out then it's back to normal.

Want actual actions have they made?
The word "they" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. It's all well and good criticising the police etc. when the bus company does bugger all to ensure that its bus station has a member of staff on duty when buses are running. Elgin hasn't traditionally had anyone on the platform beyond office hours, but the bus station in Aberdeen used to have a kiosk that was available for enquiries when the office was closed.

Pubs and clubs are expected to have security staff after a certain time of day as part of their licensing obligations; why is there no obligation for Stagecoach to do the same?

I'm not suggesting that a member of staff in a kiosk should have to tackle a group of people whose intention is to cause trouble, but at least there would be eyes on the ground and, if there's sufficient cause for concern, they'd relay relevant information to the police if there are any signs of trouble.
 

Falcon1200

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Hopefully he has a really bad time, big man in Elgin does not translate to big man inside and I hope has has a horrible time and life.

I would prefer that, before he does any more damage, he turns his life around and becomes a useful member of society; That may however be a forlorn hope. But the issue of anti-social behaviour, on public transport and elsewhere, clearly deserves more attention.
 
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