Reopening Stratford to Fenny Compton - how much work/cost

[Philip]

What would be the scale of work and likely cost of a project to reopen the railway between Stratford-on-Avon & Fenny Compton Junction, to connect with the Cherwell Valley line, and so to restore the direct link between Stratford & Oxford? A quick glance at Google Maps seems to indicate that the biggest challenge would be getting the railway through the southern suburbs of Stratford and to a lesser extent, Kineton. Aside from these stretches the rest of it looks fairly straightforward. Could a tunnel be dug under southern Stratford? Would restoring the direct Stratford to Banbury, Oxford, Reading & London rail link be worth the cost of reopening the railway in the long term, regardless of how they decide to tackle southern Stratford?

 

[RT4038]

What would be the scale of work and likely cost of a project to reopen the railway between Stratford-on-Avon & Fenny Compton Junction, to connect with the Cherwell Valley line, and so to restore the direct link between Stratford & Oxford? A quick glance at Google Maps seems to indicate that the biggest challenge would be getting the railway through the southern suburbs of Stratford and to a lesser extent, Kineton. Aside from these stretches the rest of it looks fairly straightforward. Could a tunnel be dug under southern Stratford? Would restoring the direct Stratford to Banbury, Oxford, Reading & London rail link be worth the cost of reopening the railway in the long term, regardless of how they decide to tackle southern Stratford?

I don't think that Stratford and Banbury/Oxford/Reading/London have ever been, in any practical passenger train service sense, ever been connected in any way other than the present routeing via Hatton/Leamington.

I think it unlikely that the passenger traffic potential of Stratford would justify the cost any re-opening of any line (unless there is major housing development, which in that area will send the local population into apoplexy) Perhaps the current two-hourly train service on the current line via Leamington (the frequency of which is probably some indication of demand?) could be improved first before spending millions on rebuilding....

 

[The Planner]

What would be the scale of work and likely cost of a project to reopen the railway between Stratford-on-Avon & Fenny Compton Junction, to connect with the Cherwell Valley line, and so to restore the direct link between Stratford & Oxford? A quick glance at Google Maps seems to indicate that the biggest challenge would be getting the railway through the southern suburbs of Stratford and to a lesser extent, Kineton. Aside from these stretches the rest of it looks fairly straightforward. Could a tunnel be dug under southern Stratford? Would restoring the direct Stratford to Banbury, Oxford, Reading & London rail link be worth the cost of reopening the railway in the long term, regardless of how they decide to tackle southern Stratford?

Why? You have a direct route via Leamington.You would reopen to Honeybourne first from Stratford and that isnt happening any time soon.

 

[Philip]

Running via Leamington isn't particularly direct, since it's going north then back south. The question revolves around the aspect that it would appear to be a fairly straightforward restoration, once beyond Stratford; closer to Fenny Compton the track is still in place.

 

[SynthD]

If you dig a tunnel under Stratford, you can’t use the current Stratford station platforms. If you want platforms there, they’ll be underground, adding a lot to the cost. There is a river, so it won’t be shallow or cut and cover.

 

[daodao]

I don't think that Stratford and Banbury/Oxford/Reading/London have ever been, in any practical passenger train service sense, ever been connected in any way other than the present routeing via Hatton/Leamington.

There were regular through coaches from London (Marylebone) to Stratford-upon-Avon via Woodford Halse, with connections at other times, before WW1 and for some years afterwards, courtesy of the GCR (Great Central Railway) and Stratford-upon-Avon and Midland Junction Railway (SMJR). In 1910 there were 5 services daily (except Sundays) by connections or through carriages, with many trips taking under 2.5 hours. One could leave Marylebone at 1820 and be booked to arrive at Stratford at 2026 by through carriage (journey time 126 minutes). The equivalent journey today leaves Marylebone at 1807, and with a 10 minute change at Leamington Spa, arrives at Stratford at 2013 (journey time also 126 minutes). I'm not advocating re-opening of the SMJR, merely pointing out that there was a fast direct service from London to Stratford well over 100 years ago using it.

 

[Bald Rick]

and so to restore the direct link between Stratford & Oxford?

There is already a direct link. A non stop service would twke about 35 minutes, if it was so desired. It isn’t.

Could a tunnel be dug under southern Stratford?

Yes. Expensively, and with an awful lot of pumps.

Would restoring the direct Stratford to Banbury, Oxford, Reading & London rail link be worth the cost of reopening the railway in the long term

No.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2024 ==

The question revolves around the aspect that it would appear to be a fairly straightforward restoration

It isn’t straightforward, because Stratford is in the way.

 

[Falcon1200]

There is already a direct link. A non stop service would twke about 35 minutes

35 minutes Oxford/Leamington surely, which is the current Cross Country timing with one stop at Banbury, not Oxford/Stratford? However I agree that there is no case whatsoever for rebuilding the SMJ route, any part of it!

 

[The Planner]

Running via Leamington isn't particularly direct, since it's going north then back south. The question revolves around the aspect that it would appear to be a fairly straightforward restoration, once beyond Stratford; closer to Fenny Compton the track is still in place.

But a route already exists, why does Stratford need a more direct route? The track from Kineton to Fenny Compton is a slow single track freight line. Running trains that way would also reduce freight capacity on the main line as freight recesses in the loop at Fenny Compton.

 

[Western Lord]

Running via Leamington isn't particularly direct, since it's going north then back south. The question revolves around the aspect that it would appear to be a fairly straightforward restoration, once beyond Stratford; closer to Fenny Compton the track is still in place.

There's another thread on here about Hull Trains diverting via Goole, in which I raised the question of why they normally go a longer way round via Selby. Nobody seemed to be bothered that they take a longer route, even when a shorter one is available already never mind having to be rebuilt, because the traffic potential is greater at Selby. The same argument could be applied to running via Leamington Spa.

 

[Bald Rick]

35 minutes Oxford/Leamington surely, which is the current Cross Country timing with one stop at Banbury, not Oxford/Stratford? However I agree that there is no case whatsoever for rebuilding the SMJ route, any part of it!

Got my maths wrong. Yes about 45-50 minutes.

 

[SynthD]

The track from Kineton to Fenny Compton is a slow single track freight line.

It's not a freight line, it's an internal military railway of Defence Munitions Kineton. I would enjoy seeing the initial reaction of someone tasked with working out how to send passenger trains through the largest ammunition depot in Western Europe.

The previous proposal, for reopening the line to Honeybourne, had the issue that there is now a major road on the track bed. The line to Fenny Compton used this track, then its own, which is also under the Seven Meadows Road.

 

[The Planner]

It's not a freight line, it's an internal military railway of Defence Munitions Kineton. I would enjoy seeing the initial reaction of someone tasked with working out how to send passenger trains through the largest ammunition depot in Western Europe.

The previous proposal, for reopening the line to Honeybourne, had the issue that there is now a major road on the track bed. The line to Fenny Compton used this track, then its own, which is also under the Seven Meadows Road.

Its NRs from Fenny Compton up to the gate as far as I know

 

[Dr Hoo]

Its NRs from Fenny Compton up to the gate as far as I know

Various sources say that it was sold to the Ministry of Defence by BR on 18 July 1971. Nothing to stop the ‘national network’ still operating and maintaining it, under contract.

 

[Falcon1200]

Got my maths wrong. Yes about 45-50 minutes.

No problem, even with a change at Leamington and a longer journey time there is no justification for rebuilding the SMJ - I lived in Oxford from 1964 to 1984 and in that time visited Stratford (on Avon) just once. Stratford East London was a different matter however....

 

[Gloster]

The SMJR crossed the GWR’s line to Honeybourne, but there was an east to north curve from the SMJR station towards the GWR one. The SMJR line westwards towards Broom closed in June 1960 and was removed in 1962. When the Broom line closed an east to south curve was opened for iron ore trains from the Banbury area to South Wales. Everything west of 25.79 at Burton Dassett/Kineton was closed in March 1965.

The 2005 Quail Diagrams gives the change of ownership as 25.55. The junction on Fenny Compton’s Down Goods Loop is 22.26 and the M40 bridge is at 25.25.

 

[Bald Rick]

No problem, even with a change at Leamington and a longer journey time there is no justification for rebuilding the SMJ - I lived in Oxford from 1964 to 1984 and in that time visited Stratford (on Avon) just once. Stratford East London was a different matter however....

And I have regularly driven Oxford - Stratford u A. It is a pig of a drive if you don’t use the M40, and not much better if you do, partly due to the congestion in both centres at all times of day / week. Rail is relatively competitive time wise already, and with a direct / limited stop service of say 45-50 mins would knock spots off the road journey time, and gain as much of the market as a new line and (slightly) quicker service via the sprawling metroplis of Kineton.


The fact that there isn‘t a direct limited stop train today is simply down to there being little market for it.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Sigh ....this one again.

We looked at it very hard for "connecting communities" all those years ago in ATOC days , using both demand modelling and of course some very experienced and qualified civil engineers. It did not stack up , so we discounted it.

Of course , this was not accepted by certain people , so I re-opened the study to have another hard look at the potential costs (could they be reduced) , and of course could anything be done by what some people might refer to as "smart timetabling) , answer much the same as the first study. So - "no" , and there it probably sits .....without going into the past , I do not think it ever was that useful , and other things , like an awkward freight derailment sealed it's fate.

Of course , joining up and rebuildng some closed lines appeals to some........(says he thinking of my 2 "favourite" candidates which I am sure one can guess at !)

 

[Bald Rick]

smart timetabling

I’d forgotten about that - it’s like discovering an old favourite teddy bear down the back of the bed.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I’d forgotten about that - it’s like discovering an old favourite teddy bear down the back of the bed.

Yes- a fine phrase (not)

 

[Dr Hoo]

It is interesting to recall the last attempt to give Fenny Compton to Stratford-upon-Avon a new lease of life.

Having been born and brought up in the Ceremonial Country of Warwickshire, I have always thought that the E&WJ&SUAT&MJRC (sorry, 'East & West Junction & Stratford-upon-Avon, Towcester & Midland Junction Joint Railway Company' to give it its proper name) was a fascinating route. Despite quite a few cutting edge innovations and interesting pieces of technology and management practice it was always a financial basket case with passenger services suspended for several years even during the 19th century. There company desperately sold hay, scythed from the embankments by permanent way staff, to local farmers to try and make ends meet. The last regular passenger trains came off as early as 1952.

Nevertheless, under the British Transport Commission the Western Region saw it as having great potential and set in train some major improvements. The loops on the long single track route were all extended to take 60-wagon trains of iron ore for South Wales. This meant equipping them all with motor points, worked from the various intermediate signal boxes. The junction at Fenny Compton (which had never allowed through running from the GWR line from Banbury) was completely re-configured. With appropriate parliamentary powers a new East-South curve was built at Stratford, to take the long trains down onto the Honeybourne/Cheltenham line. The new 'jumbo trains' would be hauled by spanking new Class 9F steam locomotives to be built at the Region's Swindon Works.

The year of 1960 saw the crescendo of the scheme. Thanks to the sponsorship of the new Minister, Ernest Marples, the BTC's annual Act was passed, enabling the WR freight master plan. New 48-road marshalling yards (supported by smaller secondary yards and new depots) at Walcot (Shrewsbury) and Brookthorpe (at Standish Junction south of Gloucester) would complete the Region's marshalling strategy. Trains staged at Brookthorpe could then proceed over a suitably strengthened Severn Bridge at Sharpness. The master stroke was that by using excavated spoil from Walcot would provide filling for Brookthorpe. So '2 yards for the price of 1.95'.

When Evening Star was named at Swindon Works on 18 March 1960, by Keith W C Grand, a BTC Member and former WR GM, everything must have seemed perfect. The Fenny Compton junction had been commissioned on 7 March and the new curve at Stratford was opening on 24 April. What could possibly go wrong?

Unfortunately the vision collapsed like a pack of cards. A stray barge severed the Severn Bridge later in 1960. The Walcot and Brookthorpe yard schemes were scrapped in 1961 when Dr Beeching began his Re-shaping investigation and the domestic iron ore from the Banbury area was quickly supplanted by imports. Evening Star and her latter day sisters met an early end.

After standing disused but fully staffed for an embarrassingly long time the Fenny Compton route was formally closed on 1 March 1965. Some people still blame Dr Beeching.