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Central / Victoria poor interchange experience at Oxford Circus

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notverydeep

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I was surprised that when the Victoria line was built, that the cross platform interchange was not done with the central line instead of the bakerloo**, as I assume most interchanges are between the central and victoria, being two of the principle lines on the system, where as the bakerloo is not.
Don’t forget the Victoria line construction predates the Jubilee line. Before that opened, the Bakerloo line effectively carried the traffic now split between the two and would have had more equal status with the Central…
 
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The exile

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As alluded to above, many who do or did commute to London find all sorts of methods and ways that turn out to be quicker (or only marginally slower but significantly less stressful), despite not being offered by whatever "journey planner" is being used.

Depending on how much quicker than Google you are, if you're loosing time on your public transport journey, Google maps suggests a 32 minute walk between Chancery Lane and Waterloo - experience tells me that's about 25 minutes at my pace. Similarly, if needing to circulate via Victoria, how about walking to Temple, then using the District and Circle? Or walking to Holborn, then using the Piccadilly and changing at Green Park?

In my experience, the best way was to find a method, hone it well, and stick to it.
One advantage of walking over that sort of distance is that the timing is almost entirely predictable. Another is that it’s “free” exercise. Alternatively, if you allow a bit extra time - it’s almost infinitely variable- allowing you to use your eyes and discover all kinds of fascinating features that the city has to offer.
 

Tetchytyke

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I was surprised that when the Victoria line was built, that the cross platform interchange was not done with the central line instead of the bakerloo**, as I assume most interchanges are between the central and victoria, being two of the principle lines on the system, where as the bakerloo is not.
At the time of construction the Bakerloo Line was incredibly important and incredibly overcrowded. This was before the Jubilee Line and so the Stanmore branch was the Bakerloo Line too. Remember that the Jubilee Line came into being as a relief for the Bakerloo.

The cross-platform interchange was- and still is- incredibly useful for passengers from Kings Cross and Finsbury Park towards Waterloo. At the time it was also for passengers from Wembley heading towards Victoria.

As for the OP, I'd walk from Chancery Lane to Waterloo if it was dry and I'd get the 59, the 243, or the 76 if it was wet.
 

Silent

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I was surprised that when the Victoria line was built, that the cross platform interchange was not done with the central line instead of the bakerloo**, as I assume most interchanges are between the central and victoria, being two of the principle lines on the system, where as the bakerloo is not.

**I would imagine its because the alignment of the central line platforms are not in an ideal direction, being East-West, where as the Bakerloo is North-South, in a similar direction to the Victoria
Bakerloo has good interchange stations though. Baker Street and Marylebone North a few stops. Charing Cross and Waterloo South a few stops. I find the interchange effective if the bakerloo line isn’t working and I can just go back on the vic line to Euston. Maybe most people interchanging at Oxford Circus with Victoria Line are travelling north and south and maybe central line users can interchange at Euston or Warren Street to get a Northern Line and then Central line?
 

Surreytraveller

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At the time of construction the Bakerloo Line was incredibly important and incredibly overcrowded. This was before the Jubilee Line and so the Stanmore branch was the Bakerloo Line too. Remember that the Jubilee Line came into being as a relief for the Bakerloo.

The cross-platform interchange was- and still is- incredibly useful for passengers from Kings Cross and Finsbury Park towards Waterloo. At the time it was also for passengers from Wembley heading towards Victoria.

As for the OP, I'd walk from Chancery Lane to Waterloo if it was dry and I'd get the 59, the 243, or the 76 if it was wet.
And don't forget Victoria to Paddington and vice versa. Much quicker than the Circle Line
 

notverydeep

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But rather more frequent trains on the Vic and Bakerloo than the Circle.

When I worked at Paddington and commuted to Bounds Green, I often used the Bakerloo to Oxford Circus rather than the H&C or Circle to Kings Cross, especially for the return journey - which suffered from the 'Paddington dilemma' of whether to go to the Praed Street platforms for the Circle or the Suburban platforms for the H&C. After I moved to other offices this was resolved with the Extended Circle line service, giving a single 12 tph service (combined with the H&C) at the Suburban platforms rather than 6 to 7.5 tph at each of the previous options. Thus the now average 5 minute interval rather than 8 to 10 minutes has reduced the incentive to travel via Oxford Circus for passengers from Paddington towards Kings Cross, aside from those actually wanting the NB Victoria line to other locations anyway - but still a good option in the C&H is disrupted...
 

JonathanH

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Very much so, I would not even consider the Circle for that journey, due to the poor frequency.
It is now possible to look up live running times to see whether a Circle line train is due, although that is easier in the northbound direction.
 

trebor79

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So what if you can't get on a Vic line train? There will be another along in less than 2 minutes.
 

Magdalia

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Unfortunately we haven't implemented "the level of crowding" into the stress calculation of our journey planner yet.
I worked in London for 30 years before journey planners were a thing.

I implicitly factored levels of crowding and stress into my journey planning and called it experience. It doesn't need an app.

I always found travelling in the deep level tube stressful because normal rules of human behaviour are suspended down there. Since I retired I haven't been in the deep level tube at all. And it is a bit painful even thinking about this now on the anniversary of the Kings Cross fire.

If going via Oxford Circus stresses you out then find another way.

High Holborn to Waterloo Main Station is a 1.2 mile walk.
A walk over Waterloo Bridge is going to take only a few minutes longer than using the tube, don't forget the time it takes to go between ground and platform level. Walking will be quicker if there is disruption. There is also the option of going via Kingsway and getting a bus for part of the journey. If it is a nice day then a stroll through Lincolns Inn Fields and taking in the view of the river will probably do wonders for your stress levels.
 

Wolfie

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High Holborn to Waterloo Main Station is a 1.2 mile walk. Should we really be spending any public money on this at all?
There is also a good bus service from outside Holborn station to Waterloo station.
 

Bald Rick

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There is also a good bus service from outside Holborn station to Waterloo station.

and vice versa (obviously)

The OP appears to be prioritising the shortest time for the journey over his stress levels on that route.

Google maps suggests that Chancery Lane - Clapham Junction is 3 minutes quicker via Central and Vic Line to Vauxhall than the 59 bus and a 6 minute interchange (in practice quite generous) at Waterloo.

That assumes starting right outside Chancery Lane station. If starting from a point that requires walking past the bus stop, then it’s likelyto be less than 3 minutes advantage.

If the OP is finding it stressful at Oxford Circus, then take 3 minutes longer and have an easier and calmer trip on the bus and get a better choice of seat at Waterloo.
 

Ghostbus

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In any other context, if you told someone that their daily commute should be a 1 mile walk down the A4 and over a 4 lane road bridge, you'd think them quite mad. But somehow it feels normal for central London in 2024.

It would bore me to tears to walk it every day, even more so ironically now they have pedestrianised the Strand. Central London traffic is so much more interesting than Outer London and the Home Counties traffic.

I can't say I'm overly impressed by an 8 minute wait for the 14 minute bus journey from Chancery Lane to Waterloo either. Was this possibly better with the Red Arrow network? I've only got to wait 6 minutes for my local Stagecoach service for the 20 minute run to the main station.
 

35B

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and vice versa (obviously)

The OP appears to be prioritising the shortest time for the journey over his stress levels on that route.

Google maps suggests that Chancery Lane - Clapham Junction is 3 minutes quicker via Central and Vic Line to Vauxhall than the 59 bus and a 6 minute interchange (in practice quite generous) at Waterloo.

That assumes starting right outside Chancery Lane station. If starting from a point that requires walking past the bus stop, then it’s likelyto be less than 3 minutes advantage.

If the OP is finding it stressful at Oxford Circus, then take 3 minutes longer and have an easier and calmer trip on the bus and get a better choice of seat at Waterloo.
And given where he’s based, if the OP is connecting between Thameslink and Tube through the Farringdon/Chancery Lane OSI, there are easier ways to do this.
 

miklcct

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And given where he’s based, if the OP is connecting between Thameslink and Tube through the Farringdon/Chancery Lane OSI, there are easier ways to do this.
My office is between Farringdon and Chancery Lane.
 

35B

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My office is between Farringdon and Chancery Lane.
In which case, and myself working in an office in the same neck of the woods, I would encourage you to do as my many colleagues who commute through Waterloo do. Walk, use the bus, or take Thameslink to Blackfriars and walk from the south side of the station there. Some even use the Drain in preference to changing at Tottenham Court Road or Oxford Circus.
 

Wolfie

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In which case, and myself working in an office in the same neck of the woods, I would encourage you to do as my many colleagues who commute through Waterloo do. Walk, use the bus, or take Thameslink to Blackfriars and walk from the south side of the station there. Some even use the Drain in preference to changing at Tottenham Court Road or Oxford Circus.
"The Drain" - Waterloo and City line.

Unsure, given that @miklcct is originally from Hong Kong, if he'd know that so posting for clarity.
 

AndrewE

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[Out of interest] I just looked on Traveline https://www.traveline.info/ and every single option started with "Walk to Waterloo!"
If you tell it your walking speed is "slow" you then get some other suggestions like "Walk to Kingsway and get a bus to Waterloo..." which suggests to me that it is probably pointless to be exclusively rail-focussed for this journey!
 
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Bald Rick

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My office is between Farringdon and Chancery Lane.

In which case, it can’t be more than 3-4 minutes walk to the southbound TL platform at Farringdon, then another 4 minutes to Blackfriars, and an easy 15 minute walk to Waterloo via Stamford St.

Use open train times to see when your selected service is arriving St P low level and leave the office then, that will get you on to the platform at Farringdon in perfect time. Then use Open train times again to check what platform your service is departing Waterloo from.

23 minutes from office to Waterloo platform, and you’ll get about 1.5km of walking in which will help with your helath, wellbeing, and destress. And you’ll get a better choice of seat on your chosen SWR service.
 
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I can't say I'm overly impressed by an 8 minute wait for the 14 minute bus journey from Chancery Lane to Waterloo either. Was this possibly better with the Red Arrow network?

It was much better, with buses every 2-3 minutes at the peaks on the 521. And from Waterloo, which was the direction I used most often (walking back), the Strand Underpass helped enormously.

My office is between Farringdon and Chancery Lane.

In which case, and myself working in an office in the same neck of the woods

Fascinating, I wonder if we all work in the same place
;)
. I walk most of the time, it's barely quicker by bus and it certainly wasn't this morning. In any case, on a nice day, over Waterloo Bridge, round Aldwych and through the LSE and Lincoln's Inn Fields is hard to beat for a nice walk.
 

miklcct

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In which case, and myself working in an office in the same neck of the woods, I would encourage you to do as my many colleagues who commute through Waterloo do. Walk, use the bus, or take Thameslink to Blackfriars and walk from the south side of the station there. Some even use the Drain in preference to changing at Tottenham Court Road or Oxford Circus.
I tried to use the Drain once in the past and it was a better experience than the interchange at Oxford Circus. The journey planner I use suggested it because the SWR train I used did not call at Vauxhall.

My journey planner sometimes suggests bus routes like 243 or 341 and I may try these routes later to see the timing as well.
 

stuu

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In any other context, if you told someone that their daily commute should be a 1 mile walk down the A4 and over a 4 lane road bridge, you'd think them quite mad. But somehow it feels normal for central London in 2024.
Why is a 20 minute walk to work mad? Thousands, maybe millions, of people do that, in towns and cities all over the country
 

35B

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Why is a 20 minute walk to work mad? Thousands, maybe millions, of people do that, in towns and cities all over the country
The issue, said this commuter, is adding that to the journey to the station, and then the commute itself.

I get where the OP is coming from, but the reality is that there are a number of straightforward ways to make this journey that are far more pleasant than the specific route he's identified, and that interchange on the Underground frequently involves long walks behind the barrier line.
 

Magdalia

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Why is a 20 minute walk to work mad? Thousands, maybe millions, of people do that, in towns and cities all over the country
Commuting in London has always involved lots of walking. T S Eliot wrote this in The Wasteland a century ago:

Unreal City,
Under the brown fog of a winter dawn,
A crowd flowed over London Bridge, so many,
I had not thought death had undone so many.

Until the pandemic huge numbers of commuters crossed London Bridge on foot every day to get to and from their workplaces in the City.

Jonathan Lynn, one of the creators of Yes, Minister, has reportedly said that he imagined Sir Humphrey Appleby living in Haslemere. Sir Humphrey would have walked to his Whitehall office from Waterloo.
 

The exile

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The issue, said this commuter, is adding that to the journey to the station, and then the commute itself.

I get where the OP is coming from, but the reality is that there are a number of straightforward ways to make this journey that are far more pleasant than the specific route he's identified, and that interchange on the Underground frequently involves long walks behind the barrier line.
Even so, so what? It’s free exercise, though I have to confess that on my return journey I balk at a 450 foot climb in less than a mile and get the bus!
 

35B

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Even so, so what? It’s free exercise, though I have to confess that on my return journey I balk at a 450 foot climb in less than a mile and get the bus!
It's a free world; we may all choose what routes we like. The answer to some unpleasantnesses is to avoid them rather than attempt to engineer them out.
 
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Until the pandemic huge numbers of commuters crossed London Bridge on foot every day to get to and from their workplaces in the City.
Must've imagined the huge numbers that have done that every day this week. And last week. And the week before that too.
 
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