Swanage Railway on train wifi

[Rougueg]

Because one of the founding objectives of the preservationists was the reinstatement of the service along the branch line though that goal has been somewhat "reinvented" as restoring the line (infrastructure) rather than operating rail services along the line.

The idea was sold to the people of Swanage (there was a town referendum) some of whom took out premier life membership status to help the promise become a reality.

In 2014 (and bear in mind we are talking the best part of 20 years after the line was "complete" albeit with a small gap between SR and NR) SR entered a legal commitment to run 2 trials of the service. Those trials didnt take place until 2017 and 2023 after which it was declared that the service was unviable. IMHO the people of Swanage have been let down. When the rail franchise was relet, a condition of that franchise could have been for services to be run along the branchline daily thus giving the people of Swanage the service that was at least implied if not directly promised.

I see.
This is very informative. Thank you.

 

[Titfield]

I see.
This is very informative. Thank you.

I think the frustration is that many local authorities are spending 10s if not 100s of millions of pounds to reinstate rail services and yet here is a branch line, mainline connected turn key ready for services to the mainline railhead and yet nothing is done.

There is often talk about a north south divide and yet here in Dorset I would venture to suggest that in terms of public services the divide is the reverse of that usually experienced.

 

[Gostav]

It seems that there is a situation where costs are out of control (various forms of corruption are not excluded). As a public project for a heritage organisation, I was curious whether these projects have been questioned by council or railway member when the expenditures were published. One possible reason is that there are very few examples of private railways operating commercially in the UK, while in Japan there would be a lot of public accounts of private railways to compare.

 

[Titfield]

It seems that there is a situation where costs are out of control (various forms of corruption are not excluded). As a public project for a heritage organisation, I was curious whether these projects have been questioned by council or railway member when the expenditures were published. One possible reason is that there are very few examples of private railways operating commercially in the UK, while in Japan there would be a lot of public accounts of private railways to compare.

The Swanage Railway Wareham Service lost money because Swanage Railway was compelled to hire in a third party contractor (train operator) because Swanage Railway itself was unable to operate the service as it did not have the appropriate licence.

There is a very unfortunate historical issue. The Swanage branch line starts at Worgret Junction and not at Wareham. Worgret Junction is about a mile west of Wareham. This means that trains to / from Swanage have to operate on the mainline which in turn means those trains have to comply with mainline standards. The cost of compliance is very high indeed including much higher insurance costs, payment for mainline track access costs, payment for station access costs, drivers and guards trained to mainline standards. Those additional costs were a major factor in the losses Swanage Railway incurred.

 

[duffield]

Because one of the founding objectives of the preservationists was the reinstatement of the service along the branch line though that goal has been somewhat "reinvented" as restoring the line (infrastructure) rather than operating rail services along the line.

The idea was sold to the people of Swanage (there was a town referendum) some of whom took out premier life membership status to help the promise become a reality.

In 2014 (and bear in mind we are talking the best part of 20 years after the line was "complete" albeit with a small gap between SR and NR) SR entered a legal commitment to run 2 trials of the service. Those trials didnt take place until 2017 and 2023 after which it was declared that the service was unviable. IMHO the people of Swanage have been let down. When the rail franchise was relet, a condition of that franchise could have been for services to be run along the branchline daily thus giving the people of Swanage the service that was at least implied if not directly promised.

My take on it is that it would only ever have worked financially if it was made part of the national rail network proper, so run with modern mainline certified rolling stock by South Western Railway, using their staff, and also a bay platform created at Wareham so the branch line trains could have really good connections to the mainline. This would probably have meant sacrificing much of the heritage service, and possibly some of the heritage feel of the stations (some modern services and equipment). I'm not saying this is or is not a worthwhile sacrifice, the SR would, I imagine be very much opposed, but I feel that you really can't have both the unfettered heritage operation and a normal passenger service and have it work out financially, so the plan was probably doomed from the start.

 

[Titfield]

There is a bay platform at Wareham on the upside though unfortunately it is out of use and has an electrical cabinet in the four foot. However there is no reason it couldnt be reinstated. If there was real imagination (and money) they would buy the run down industrial estate at the side of the station, build a new bigger car park (more than the current 60+ spaces) and then reinstate the down bay (which is the current car park). Di they need both bays or would one do?

I still think the two services could be integrated (or at least run alongside each other metaphorically not literally) with a bit of imagination and recognition that these are heritage stations. As regards pricing there would have to be a very clear structure of SWR £x and Swanage Railway £xx.

 

[TTTB]

Councils - the organisations that pay £1.20 for a pound coin.

Swanage Railway has received huge amounts of money directly and indirectly from various funding bodies but precious little to show for it:
* over £3M spent on Project Wareham but apparently not viable for services to be operated
* over £1.2M spent on the class 117 and 121 DMU refurbishing to mainline standards for Project Wareham but PW effectively abandoned.
*£75K for 31806 to go on the mainline - a handful of times so far.

Is your last point correct? As far as I can tell the 117 and 121 are railway assets. However any research I can find online suggests the steam loco is privately owned. Therefore such extensive investment seems illogical. Or is my understanding of the equipment that it could be transferred to another locomotive (possibly Eddystone?? SLL announcing mainline aspirations). therefore not necessarily rendering it a loss. Just interested?

 

[Titfield]

Is your last point correct? As far as I can tell the 117 and 121 are railway assets. However any research I can find online suggests the steam loco is privately owned. Therefore such extensive investment seems illogical. Or is my understanding of the equipment that it could be transferred to another locomotive (possibly Eddystone?? SLL announcing mainline aspirations). therefore not necessarily rendering it a loss. Just interested?

31806 is owned privately. Swanage Railway received a grant of £75K for the "black boxes" (IIRC TWPS etc) so it could go on the mainline. AIUI the equipment can be removed and fitted to another locomotive if required. Not sure of the resources required for that.

 

[TTTB]

31806 is owned privately. Swanage Railway received a grant of £75K for the "black boxes" (IIRC TWPS etc) so it could go on the mainline. AIUI the equipment can be removed and fitted to another locomotive if required. Not sure of the resources required for that.

Probably a lot more cost!

 

[mountainpixel]

There’s a bit more to deploying a WiFi solution than throwing a bunch of starlink terminals in. For a start, you’d still want to use decent access points and controllers capable of handling captive portal sign-in, network separation, and handoff (roaming).

I was on a sleeper in Moldova this summer, and their Wi-Fi solution probably cost about 50 pounds a carriage. Just a Router with 4G and a Sim-card plugged in.

Looked like this

I'm not saying that this is a high quality solution. But sometimes something like this is just enough.

 

[paul1609]

My take on it is that it would only ever have worked financially if it was made part of the national rail network proper, so run with modern mainline certified rolling stock by South Western Railway, using their staff, and also a bay platform created at Wareham so the branch line trains could have really good connections to the mainline. This would probably have meant sacrificing much of the heritage service, and possibly some of the heritage feel of the stations (some modern services and equipment). I'm not saying this is or is not a worthwhile sacrifice, the SR would, I imagine be very much opposed, but I feel that you really can't have both the unfettered heritage operation and a normal passenger service and have it work out financially, so the plan was probably doomed from the start.

It would only have worked financially as part of the national network if there had been £millions of funding for the infrastructure and an ongoing subsidy of in the region of at least £5 million pa like every other seaside branch line.
If it didn't have a huge ongoing subsidy it would be an absolute basket case financially, making the Swanage losses look like loose change.

 

[Invincible]

I was on a sleeper in Moldova this summer, and their Wi-Fi solution probably cost about 50 pounds a carriage. Just a Router with 4G and a Sim-card plugged in.

Looked like this

I'm not saying that this is a high quality solution. But sometimes something like this is just enough.

The UK Government wants to promote fast rural satellite links (Rural Connectivity Accelerator programme), so the Norden car park and station WiFi testbed via the local council is the first part of it.

Interesting article from January on the last Government's "rescue" or "gamble" of a UK based satellite links company, which has been passed onto the current Government.

Think the £15m specifically for LEO satellite research from Jeremy Hunt's last budget remains, and the grant probably came from this?

Oneweb: Will the UK's gamble on a satellite start-up pay off?

Boris Johnson bought a cash-strapped satellite start-up in the middle of the Covid pandemic but it will take Brexit scars to heal for his bet to co...

www.politicshome.com

Dorset Council powers ahead with UK’s first WiFi-connected steam train

A new innovation project is steaming ahead in Dorset to test if WiFi can work on even the most rural and oldest railway networks.

www.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk