Lack of train crew on Great Northern?

[Bald Rick]

A driver changing ends on 12 car trains 4 times per shift will be walking 1km before adding in the walks at start and end of shift.

I might be out of line here, but walking 1km is not any sort of distance, even for someone who is overweight (as a large proportion of the population are). If someone can’t easily walk 1km due to being overweight, then they need to have a chat with themsleves about their life choices.

People with injuries to hips / knees / ankles etc are of course another matter.

 

[12LDA28C]

Add to that climbing up/down and walking on ballast. The latter is something that gets asked on every work medical now.

And so it should. Although extremely unlikely these days, a driver may be required to walk a mile and a quarter on ballast and if they are not capable of doing that then they shouldn't be driving trains.

 

[bramling]

An important factor is much longer NHS waiting lists, with people off work waiting for the NHS to treat them.

Although driving trains involves a lot of sitting down, it also involves a lot of walking. A driver changing ends on 12 car trains 4 times per shift will be walking 1km before adding in the walks at start and end of shift. Anyone overweight and with dodgy knees or hips is going to struggle with that.

Depends how one defines a lot of walking. I wouldn’t say 1,000 metres is a lot of walking. In fact, I wouldn’t say 10,000 metres is a lot, that would be a low day for me.

Another aspect not mentioned is that, while the older generation if drivers is overwhelmingly men, the younger generation of drivers include a lot more women. There may be some "overtime sharks" in the younger generation, but there are possibly fewer of them now than the younger generation of, say, 20 years ago?

I’d say there’s a subtle difference. The overtime sharks in the past tended to be more committed, so there tended - in my experience - to be less of working the overtime and then trying everything possible not to work the normal shifts. It seems to me that some people have simply become a little too comfortable with not spending much time at work.

 

[choochoochoo]

An important factor is much longer NHS waiting lists, with people off work waiting for the NHS to treat them.

I’ve heard some TOCs are paying for private treatment for some of their drivers who are on long waiting lists.

Cheaper to get them back productive than to pay them for being off sick.

 

[dk1]

I’ve heard some TOCs are paying for private treatment for some of their drivers who are on long waiting lists.

Cheaper to get them back productive than to pay them for being off sick.

It’s always been that way from what I’ve witnessed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Nov 2024 ==

Makes so much sense.

 

[philthetube]

But it's also their stupidity (or inability to negotiate with unions), as in some industries with strong peak seasons, there are limits on holidays (no more than x allowed to book that week, first come first served), or holiday or pay rate multipliers where might get for instance 1.5 days holiday for every day taken in slack season. Basically trying to balance demand across the year.

Quite why the railways with known peak and slack weeks, treat them all as equal value, rather than incentivising to discourage lots of booking holidays at selected busy dates is beyond ratIonal thinking. Could you imagine a theatre with a pantomime giving staff free choice to book holidays then, obviously not.

Will you work January and the first half of February please, possibly,

Will you work right through the summer hols and have no time off while the kids are on holiday, possibly not.

 

[janb]

Just to increase my irritation, I was told at the ticket office they don't do paper delay repay forms anymore, and you *have* to apply on the internet. On asking what people without internet access are supposed to do, I was given the answer is to send an email to customer services (!). I was rather too speechless at the absurdity of that reply to continue the conversation... The level of contempt they have for their passengers is astonishing.

There is a pdf available on their website for printing and posting. A good ticket office would print it out for you, a good proactive one would already have a few of them printed ready to hand out.

 

[43096]

It’s always been that way from what I’ve witnessed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Nov 2024 ==

Makes so much sense.

It does. I’ve been in (non-rail) businesses that have done similarly: technician who couldn’t work while waiting for an operation. The saving from reduced overtime and agency labour more than paid for it and of course it was good for the employee too.

 

[dk1]

It does. I’ve been in (non-rail) businesses that have done similarly: technician who couldn’t work while waiting for an operation. The saving from reduced overtime and agency labour more than paid for it and of course it was good for the employee too.

Good to hear mate.

 

[MikeWM]

There is a pdf available on their website for printing and posting.

I found that, yes - just saying that would have been an improvement. Obviously *I* have internet access but, despite the fact that the railway assumes this in so many ways nowadays, it still seems unreasonable to assume everyone does.

A good ticket office would print it out for you, a good proactive one would already have a few of them printed ready to hand out.

Agreed, but, well, GTR, so expectations aren't high. I note GA and EMR around here still do produce proper paper forms, so I guess this is just GTR being rubbish as usual.

 

[43066]

I found that, yes - just saying that would have been an improvement. Obviously *I* have internet access but, despite the fact that the railway assumes this in so many ways nowadays, it still seems unreasonable to assume everyone does.

It really doesn’t seem unreasonable to assume that in 2024. It’s also perfectly in line with how other businesses operate.

A good ticket office would print it out for you, a good proactive one would already have a few of them printed ready to hand out.

If someone asked perhaps they would. It isn’t going to necessary to print them out in advance, and doing so would likely be a waste of resources, simply because it’s likely nobody would ask for them from one month to the next.

 

[janb]

If someone asked perhaps they would. It isn’t going to necessary to print them out in advance, and doing so would likely be a waste of resources, simply because it’s likely nobody would ask for them from one month to the next.

My post was from experience. I work in a ticket office. A ticket office with a printer that doesn't always work (has a new previously unseen error today for example). A ticket office where I do get asked for paper delay repay forms regularly. Having at least one printed copy (or the three I currently have) of neighbouring TOCS pdf delay repay form sat next to me ready does not seem a great waste of resource.

 

[43066]

My post was from experience. I work in a ticket office. A ticket office with a printer that doesn't always work (has a new previously unseen error today for example). A ticket office where I do get asked for paper delay repay forms regularly. Having at least one printed copy (or the three I currently have) of neighbouring TOCS pdf delay repay form sat next to me ready does not seem a great waste of resource.

Fair enough - I stand corrected. At the very least they should give you a decent printer that works!

 

[Mcq]

Yesterday was Black Friday - the prices came down and the GN 'shortage of train crew' cancellations went up - go figure?

 

[ctrh136]

Yesterday was Black Friday - the prices came down and the GN 'shortage of train crew' cancellations went up - go figure?

Black Friday isn't for another couple of weeks.....

 

[Mcq]

So no excuse then .......

 

[Turtle]

Yesterday was Black Friday - the prices came down and the GN 'shortage of train crew' cancellations went up - go figure?

I thought it was the 29th.

 

[800001]

Yesterday was Black Friday - the prices came down and the GN 'shortage of train crew' cancellations went up - go figure?

Since when was Black Friday yesterday?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2024 ==

So no excuse then .......

Tell the truth then…….

 

[Sly Old Fox]

It’s much more complex than that. Many TOCs, including those seeing high levels of cancellations, now have more drivers than they have ever had.

That’s as maybe, but the way that route knowledge has been hacked away at over the last few years, can any of them actually drive trains anywhere useful?

Trains cancelled and drivers sat in the mess room because they don’t sign anything is becoming more and more common. And stupid unproductive diagramming also. Why have one driver on eaxh train when you can have one driving and two passing, and then cancel the following one?

 

[Mcq]

Apologies for the wrong Friday - be nice if those leaving folks without transport at night apologised too.

 

[ctrh136]

Not related to GN specifically but what happened at Cricklewood depot this morning? TL seemed to blame a shortage of staff, or was it as a result of the issues yesterday?

 

[TomH1994]

Think TL had a lot of staff shortage yesterday as well as I was at Luton. Was going to get the 1243 or 1246 south to KX, but this was rammed as the one before it (1229) and two after it were all cancelled it due to staff shortage. Ended up getting the EMR service which got into KX 3 minutes after the TL one was due to. They had engineering works over at GN, so makes you wonder how many drivers / 700’s they had spare. There were quite a few cancellations / delays on the way back around 5/530 as well

 

[Bradford PA]

Think TL had a lot of staff shortage yesterday as well as I was at Luton. Was going to get the 1243 or 1246 south to KX, but this was rammed as the one before it (1229) and two after it were all cancelled it due to staff shortage. Ended up getting the EMR service which got into KX 3 minutes after the TL one was due to. They had engineering works over at GN, so makes you wonder how many drivers / 700’s they had spare. There were quite a few cancellations / delays on the way back around 5/530 as well

Yesterday was shocking, especially mid-evening. I caught the 1013 to St Pancras which was only 8 coaches and full and standing by Luton. Took ages to load at Harpenden and St Albans. Coming back we innocently went for the 2116 EMR upstairs only to find the queues for this stretching back from the barriers to the very rear of the original trainshed - nobody had ever witnessed it like this before. We forced our way back downstairs, aiming for the 2123 TL. Upon arrival on the platform there was a train indicating Bedford so I found a door and squeezed on - my companions were less fortunate and caught a subsequent train which arrived in Luton 30 minutes later. The driver announced first call Luton which sent a few people off while more piled on, then Leagrave, Harlington, Flitwick and Bedford which was confirmed by the onboard screens. When approaching Luton it was then announced that it would terminate there and pulled into platform 2 leaving a whole trainload to exit via the ridiculously narrow stairway from this platform. At this time of year there are substantially more people heading to London for retail and social activities, many of whom are not regular travelers by train. Quite what their impression is of the railway service I shudder to think. It was exactly the same at this time last year. At one time railway companies would provide additional staff to assist passengers at anticipated times of heavy use by casual travelers but all we seem to have at the moment is high numbers of officious and intimidating "Security" staff who have no knowledge of the ticket systems so provide no help at all. At St Albans on Friday evening a woman attempting to exit via the town side gates on platform 4 was sent all the way over to railway staff on platform 1 as the security gatekeepers on no.4 could not decide upon the validity of her ticket that had failed the barriers. Then a known associate of theirs reached the gate and was simply buzzed through with no evidence of a ticket. When I queried this I was greeted with "What are you saying ?" and told that it was "none of my business".

 

[43066]

Ended up getting the EMR service which got into KX 3 minutes after the TL one was due to.

I’m impressed you managed to take an EMR service to Kings Cross!

 

[Jim]

I suspect the KX closure will be contributing to crowds on the MML this weekend, as I believe it's buses Bedford < > St Neots for ECML connections,

 

[Spartacus]

Not related to GN specifically but what happened at Cricklewood depot this morning? TL seemed to blame a shortage of staff, or was it as a result of the issues yesterday?

I heard there was no shunter, so unable to get any sets off the depot.

 

[Sleepy]

I think yesterday morning was a visit London for day trip Saturday - the 1000 service from Norwich to Liverpool St. was reported as full and standing from Stowmarket for example !!

 

[baz962]

Will you work January and the first half of February please, possibly,

Will you work right through the summer hols and have no time off while the kids are on holiday, possibly not.

We get our block leave allocated well in advance and some people have worse times than others and spread evenly. As for ad hoc days only a a few are allowed and it gets declined if too many request it and they can't cover the work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Dec 2024 ==

I’m impressed you managed to take an EMR service to Kings Cross!

Probably you driving

 

[TomH1994]

I’m impressed you managed to take an EMR service to Kings Cross!

Oops, I meant St Pancras!

 

[MikeWM]

I think yesterday morning was a visit London for day trip Saturday - the 1000 service from Norwich to Liverpool St. was reported as full and standing from Stowmarket for example !!

I was in Central London briefly yesterday, and can confirm it was incredibly busy everywhere, even by 'weekend before Christmas' standards. I gave up and came home early.

It will be 'interesting' to see what GN manage to run next weekend - other than the Remembrance Sunday weekend, it is the first time they *should* be running a full weekend service since September. Let's see.