South-eastern Railway ticket office changes, destaffing by another name?

[VItraveller]

apologies if this has already been discussed before, but I came across this article from disability news service which is hardly what I’d call an unbiased source, but the information in it seems factual.

Rail company cuts ticket office hours, just a year after national closure programme was abandoned

A train company has planned partial closures of 14 ticket offices across its network by “stealth”, say campaigners, a year after the rail industry was forced to back down over plans to shut nearly …

www.disabilitynewsservice.com

The article discusses south-eastern‘s plans to change ticket offices Opening times across their network, They claim that this will not lead when reduction in staffing hours however another source suggests that some have been encouraged to take voluntary redundancy meaning that in some stations, there will only be enough staff for a morning shift.

If it is the case that the stations will still be staffed, I think reducing the ticket office opening times is a good thing because not as many people buy tickets but this might also just be a stealthy way to reduce staffing on a more long-term basis.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

The article says "It claimed that the new opening hours were publicised on its website and on station posters last month" - “Our website and posters display staffing and ticket hours for each station, making it easy for customers to find available assistance"

Are there any rules about how such information should be publicised so that everyone, including those who can't see and read, are aware of changes?

 

[CyrusWuff]

The article says "It claimed that the new opening hours were publicised on its website and on station posters last month" - “Our website and posters display staffing and ticket hours for each station, making it easy for customers to find available assistance"

Are there any rules about how such information should be publicised so that everyone, including those who can't see and read, are aware of changes?

It depends if it's classed as a minor change (which removing an entire shift can be if, on average, fewer than 8 tickets per hour are sold during such shifts) or a major change.

For a minor change, there's no requirement for public consultation whatsoever. The TOC does need approval from the SoS for Transport, other TOCs and Rail Settlement Plan, however.

For a major change, relevant PTEs and Transport Focus or London Travelwatch are also involved and the proposal has to be advertised at the station concerned, with a minimum period for objections of 21 days.

 

[island]

Is there a list of the affected stations? Only Deal and Otford are mentioned in the article.

 

[SM Chobham Int]

Why by now haven’t the Uk taken a look at what other countries do ? Here in Denmark, you go in to a 7Eleven (former ticket office or other station facility) where the DSB/7Eleven staff can sell you your train ticket and or a flat white with a donut !! I’ve seen the same in Netherlands & Sweden……

 

[JonathanH]

Why by now haven’t the Uk taken a look at what other countries do ? Here in Denmark, you go in to a 7Eleven (former ticket office or other station facility) where the DSB/7Eleven staff can sell you your train ticket and or a flat white with a donut !! I’ve seen the same in Netherlands & Sweden……

They have, in a handful of stations on Merseyside, but it hasn't caught on elsewhere, probably due to lack of space and the cost of rebuilding. Also the question as to whether the rail operators want the overhead of selling other stuff and whether it will cover its costs.

 

[yorksrob]

They have, in a handful of stations on Merseyside, but it hasn't caught on elsewhere, probably due to lack of space and the cost of rebuilding. Also the question as to whether the rail operators want the overhead of selling other stuff and whether it will cover its costs.

The South East has lots of under-used station buildings. Such a scheme might give them a new lease of life.

It will be annoying if the TO at Ashford (Kent) gets reduced opening. This seemed to be happenning last year.

 

[Red Rover]

Why by now haven’t the Uk taken a look at what other countries do ? Here in Denmark, you go in to a 7Eleven (former ticket office or other station facility) where the DSB/7Eleven staff can sell you your train ticket and or a flat white with a donut !! I’ve seen the same in Netherlands & Sweden……

MtoGo on merseyrail there’re called, they were (I think) a concession agreement, many haven’t worked out as they need more staff so didn’t make any money, only a few remain (not too sure if this is a minimum requirement or the ones that remain make a profit?).

 

[Dai Corner]

Why by now haven’t the Uk taken a look at what other countries do ? Here in Denmark, you go in to a 7Eleven (former ticket office or other station facility) where the DSB/7Eleven staff can sell you your train ticket and or a flat white with a donut !! I’ve seen the same in Netherlands & Sweden……

TfW sell tickets via some Payzone shops in south east Wales, though these are not at stations.

 

[ScotGG]

SouthEastern has been scarcely staffed for years. A lot of services are DOO and barely any staff at many stations even at supposedly manned times which are rarely met. Free for all network.

Transport for London managed to link up with newsagents including selling bus tickets and topping up oyster cards before contactless cards were a thing. Southeastern like many TOCs show little initiative. It's one of many "small" things that caused so many to get frustrated with them and DaFT overview in turn seeking out a possible TfL transfer of management (in London and to Dartford/Orpington at least). Not for major changes such as trains every 5 mins as infrastructure constrained but the "little" things. Staffing, safety, commercial knowledge, branding etc with signage and train appearance. TfL are not perfect by a long way and poor in the recent past, but I can't imagine anyone doing so poorly as those operators in control ever since Network South East. Maybe GBR will do it.

 

[43066]

The article discusses south-eastern‘s plans to change ticket offices Opening times across their network, They claim that this will not lead when reduction in staffing hours however another source suggests that some have been encouraged to take voluntary redundancy meaning that in some stations, there will only be enough staff for a morning shift.

If it is the case that the stations will still be staffed, I think reducing the ticket office opening times is a good thing because not as many people buy tickets but this might also just be a stealthy way to reduce staffing on a more long-term basis.

If the ticket offices are closed it’s likely the stations will be unstaffed - as envisaged by the now abandoned closure plan, which was described as “bringing people out from behind glass”, but was really about destaffing.

Good response from the DfT in the article; if Southeastern’s plans were approved by the previous government it makes sense to review them!

TfL are not perfect by a long way and poor in the recent past, but I can't imagine anyone doing so poorly as those operators in control ever since Network South East. Maybe GBR will do it.

As a (very) regular user, it’s true that the trains are a little shabby, but generally the metro operation is extremely robust and reliable, offering turn up and go frequencies at many location. They also score higher than average on passenger satisfaction surveys.

 

[Stephen42]

Is there a list of the affected stations? Only Deal and Otford are mentioned in the article.

The changes have already happened at Deal and Otford. In many of the other locations the ticket office may not be open afternoons anyway.

The stations listed for 2025 are metro: Beckenham Junction, Bexleyheath, Hayes, Mottingham, New Cross, New Eltham, Petts Wood, Welling, mainline: Battle, Bearsted, Wadhurst and West Malling. The plans all look similar in removing the afternoon shift when few tickets were sold even in 2019.

If the stations are staffed the same hours with the toilets open, staff present to help those that need it and just no ticket office open that doesn't seem unreasonable. The big if is whether that happens or it ends up with the staff not there or hiding somewhere not visible.

 

[Sonic1234]

The plans all look similar in removing the afternoon shift when few tickets were sold even in 2019

Don't think I've ever seen anyone buy a ticket at the ticket office at metro stations, although I'm not there at peak times.

Always find it ironic when there's a poster saying "skip the queue, use the app/website/e-tickets" - there isn't a queue and never is. They need to do a different poster for metro stations "help with our staff boredom problem, try the ticket office"

 

[island]

My local SE station ticket office window is festooned with things they can't/won't/don't do, e.g. retail Oyster, help with Contactless, sell advance tickets in the morning peak, print TODs