Swanage Railway on train wifi

[mind-the-gap]

Interesting development……

awarded grant to install on train and station wifi

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c629e8eqngdo

 

[Rougueg]

Interesting....

But...
£163,000... yes you read that correctly.

A starlink subscription, hardware and install is no where near this figure!?

It doesn't even according to the bbc extend to all stations.

The bandwidth subscription with starling is the most expensive part.....

But even then https://www.starlink.com/gb/service-plans/business a business sun with 5Tb data per month is still only £4000pm!

And I doubt they will need that level of bandwidth.

What's the extra £100k being spent on?

 

[jupiter]

On the face of it, how does that benefit the local community? How many dwellings within coverage distance of Purbeck Park and Norden station, zero?

 

[dgl]

The last time I went on the Swanage Railway (a few weeks ago) I believe I had no issues with mobile data on EE so I don't see why a satellite system needs to be used.

I would also expect Purbeck Park to have an Internet connection already, the parking ticket machines need it and if there is known to be connection issues for people using their phones to pay they add a public Wi-Fi network. At Portland Bill carpark they had Wi-Fi added as mobile signal is non existent there and obviously a wired connection for to provide it (and I would assume a connection to the ticket machines, which will be the same ones as at purbeck park as all DC carparks use the same machines now).

 

[Rougueg]

It can only be a good thing and if it does improve connectivity then that's great.

I'm just staggered by the grant amount.
The business case must be bloated beyond bloat.

 

[m0ffy]

I’m not surprised by the numbers involved. You’d need to undertake coverage surveys for your stations, install cabling, buy and deploy hardware, and design how (if at all) it will integrate with existing network infrastructure. WiFi is surprisingly complex.

 

[Rougueg]

Cough starlink, cough cough.....

Minimal cabling, minimal hardware costs in addition to monthly fee.

Coverage survey.... doubt this is needed as if coverage not achieved, install 2nd star link terminal in the area.

 

[jupiter]

Possibly it’s a three or five year trial?

 

[Invincible]

Cough starlink, cough cough.....

As it is a Government grant, might be a Oneweb test at Purbeck park, rather than Musk's Starlink?, the Government still has shares in Oneweb, but take up has been almost non existent (just tests in Lundy and Shetland isles with BT).

https://oneweb.net/resources/bt-and-oneweb-deliver-high-speed-satellite-connectivity-lundy-island

"Beyond Lundy, OneWeb’s LEO satellites are a crucial part of BT’s ambition to provide high-speed connectivity anywhere in the UK by 2028”

 

[Iskra]

Seems like a bit of a waste of time and money when wifi is becoming increasingly irrelevant with the ever-improving phone network and cost of data packages.

It would be cheaper for them just to buy a few phones and just hotspot for any customers that need it.

 

[jupiter]

Seems like a bit of a waste of time and money when wifi is becoming increasingly irrelevant with the ever-improving phone network and cost of data packages.

It would be cheaper for them just to buy a few phones and just hotspot for any customers that need it.

Ha ha! (My bold). This is Dorset. I haven't seen the phone network improve in 20 years. 5G? Lucky to get 4.

 

[m0ffy]

Cough starlink, cough cough.....

Minimal cabling, minimal hardware costs in addition to monthly fee.

Coverage survey.... doubt this is needed as if coverage not achieved, install 2nd star link terminal in the area.

There’s a bit more to deploying a WiFi solution than throwing a bunch of starlink terminals in. For a start, you’d still want to use decent access points and controllers capable of handling captive portal sign-in, network separation, and handoff (roaming).

 

[Iskra]

Ha ha! (My bold). This is Dorset. I haven't seen the phone network improve in 20 years. 5G? Lucky to get 4.

Post #4 disagrees with your assertion.

 

[dgl]

Plenty of 5G around Dorset, and going on the Hear of the Wessex line it only seems to be the tunnels where there is no phone reception.
Certinaly no issues watching YouTube on the bus from Dorchester to Yeovil or on the Bournemouth to Wareham bus.
Only place I know is an issue is on the road to Lulworth, and road between Wool and Wareham.

 

[Invincible]

Plenty of 5G around Dorset, and going on the Hear of the Wessex line it only seems to be the tunnels where there is no phone reception.
Certinaly no issues watching YouTube on the bus from Dorchester to Yeovil or on the Bournemouth to Wareham bus.
Only place I know is an issue is on the road to Lulworth, and road between Wool and Wareham.

Think the problem is just Norden, so a good place for to test Oneweb (or perhaps Starlink, or both, rather than run fibres?).

 

[Tom]

It's an odd one. Speaking from experience, there's no issue with getting mobile coverage to a train on that line (given I have equipment fitted on every train on that line, plus the new version is capable of broadcasting wifi too amusingly). It's only really the Norden station area itself that has got issues, the car park isn't too bad on most networks.

Possibly it’s a three or five year trial?

I believe it is much shorter. And only one set.

 

[Titfield]

I am baffled by this as it seems to me to be spending money for the sake of it. The benefits seem to be very minor indeed to a very small number of people.

 

[paul1609]

It's an odd one. Speaking from experience, there's no issue with getting mobile coverage to a train on that line (given I have equipment fitted on every train on that line, plus the new version is capable of broadcasting wifi too amusingly). It's only really the Norden station area itself that has got issues, the car park isn't too bad on most networks.



I believe it is much shorter. And only one set.

I hear ELON also wants to take control of railmiles, do you still drive a Tesla? It might be bugged!

 

[43096]

I am baffled by this as it seems to me to be spending money for the sake of it. The benefits seem to be very minor indeed to a very small number of people.

Agreed. Another excuse for Swanage Railway to waste a load of taxpayers money up the wall. Admittedly it is rather less than the Wareham fiasco, but this strikes me as all rather pointless. You wonder when the council is going to get a reality check.

 

[Invincible]

I hear ELON also wants to take control of railmiles, do you still drive a Tesla? It might be bugged!

This is where the Norden internet trial becomes political.
The previous Government set up Project Gigabit but not all locations can get fibre or 5G. It rescued the UK based Oneweb satellite service from bankruptcy and became a shareholder.
But whereas Elon's Starlink American based service sells to individuals, it was decided the Oneweb service would work with BT, Government departments, companies and communities to provide a fast satellite internet service to rural locations instead of fibre.
The grant via the council will pay for a specialist installer, but so far the satellite provider has not been confirmed.
Going to Starlink or Eutelsat Oneweb?, so far Oneweb installs have been few, so there might be pressure for the contact to go BT and Oneweb, especially as the Government is a stakeholder, rather than American owned Starlink?.
If the Openweb satellite service is selected for Norden, will give a good test site, which can be used to get contracts for other UK rural sites.

 

[dgl]

Can't remember where I saw it but it does appear to be using the oneweb system.

 

[Titfield]

This is where the Norden internet trial becomes political.
The previous Government set up Project Gigabit but not all locations can get fibre or 5G. It rescued the UK based Oneweb satellite service from bankruptcy and became a shareholder.
But whereas Elon's Starlink American based service sells to individuals, it was decided the Oneweb service would work with BT, Government departments, companies and communities to provide a fast satellite internet service to rural locations instead of fibre.
The grant via the council will pay for a specialist installer, but so far the satellite provider has not been confirmed.
Going to Starlink or Eutelsat Oneweb?, so far Oneweb installs have been few, so there might be pressure for the contact to go BT and Oneweb, especially as the Government is a stakeholder, rather than American owned Starlink?.
If the Openweb satellite service is selected for Norden, will give a good test site, which can be used to get contracts for other UK rural sites.

I do hope it is available 24/7/365 and not just the days the Swanage Railway is operating.

 

[Invincible]

I do hope it is available 24/7/365 and not just the days the Swanage Railway is operating.

Parking is not permitted over night, so they could switch off public wifi, but allow security systems and cameras to continue.

 

[Titfield]

From memory though I thought that Swanage Railway had laid a fibre optic cable from Corfe Castle Station to Norden to provide internet access over that section of the line and to what is now Purbeck Park.

 

[Tom]

Correct - there is a fibre in place between the two stations and connectivity at Norden on the railway side isn‘t an issue. I think it’s very telling that this is a an award to Dorset Council - not Swanage Railway - and should be seen in that light.

 

[Rougueg]

That is interesting. The bbc article makes it definitely sound as though the award was to SR direct.

If it is to dorset council.... the inflated money can easily be explained.... hiring of a project manager.

 

[Titfield]

That is interesting. The bbc article makes it definitely sound as though the award was to SR direct.

If it is to dorset council.... the inflated money can easily be explained.... hiring of a project manager.

Councils - the organisations that pay £1.20 for a pound coin.

Swanage Railway has received huge amounts of money directly and indirectly from various funding bodies but precious little to show for it:
* over £3M spent on Project Wareham but apparently not viable for services to be operated
* over £1.2M spent on the class 117 and 121 DMU refurbishing to mainline standards for Project Wareham but PW effectively abandoned.
*£75K for 31806 to go on the mainline - a handful of times so far.

 

[Rougueg]

@Titfield Would you mind if I asked why you are so aggrieved about 'project Wareham'.

Forget the cost etc. You seem very attached to this idea?

This is not an attack, I'm genuinely very interested to understand the desire for this service.

Some people here talk about it as if it is a matter of life or death. Others seemingly think it's wasteful fullstop. Other again couldn't care less.

Money aside. What's your reasoning?

 

[Titfield]

@Titfield Would you mind if I asked why you are so aggrieved about 'project Wareham'.

Forget the cost etc. You seem very attached to this idea?

This is not an attack, I'm genuinely very interested to understand the desire for this service.

Some people here talk about it as if it is a matter of life or death. Others seemingly think it's wasteful fullstop. Other again couldn't care less.

Money aside. What's your reasoning?

Because one of the founding objectives of the preservationists was the reinstatement of the service along the branch line though that goal has been somewhat "reinvented" as restoring the line (infrastructure) rather than operating rail services along the line.

The idea was sold to the people of Swanage (there was a town referendum) some of whom took out premier life membership status to help the promise become a reality.

In 2014 (and bear in mind we are talking the best part of 20 years after the line was "complete" albeit with a small gap between SR and NR) SR entered a legal commitment to run 2 trials of the service. Those trials didnt take place until 2017 and 2023 after which it was declared that the service was unviable. IMHO the people of Swanage have been let down. When the rail franchise was relet, a condition of that franchise could have been for services to be run along the branchline daily thus giving the people of Swanage the service that was at least implied if not directly promised.

 

[Tom]

That is interesting. The bbc article makes it definitely sound as though the award was to SR direct.

Dorset Council powers ahead with UK’s first WiFi-connected steam train

A new innovation project is steaming ahead in Dorset to test if WiFi can work on even the most rural and oldest railway networks.

www.dorsetcouncil.gov.uk

Rural Connectivity Accelerator programme projects

www.gov.uk

Definitely to Dorset Council. Bearing in mind that the railway has viable hard line connectivity at all stations other than Herston Halt* it makes me think that this was a Dorset Council desire to improve the car park at Norden/Purbeck Park/whatever it's called this week that was then made to look better by bundling one of its assets in - given the council own the trackbed. It also has positive vibes to an awarding authority because of the Oneweb investment.

*Herston has functioning 4G connectivity - the automatic announcer runs off it - and I think is getting a fibre link at some point anyway.