Advice on Fines and potential escalation

[p4g]

Hello, I recently got checked at St Pancras for tickets and got charged a fine.

I travel to work from Ladywell (no barriers) to St Pancras, changing at London Bridge. For the past couple of weeks I started buying return train tickets from London Bridge to St Pancras as this costs £7.40 compared to £10 from Ladywell. I know this is wrong but I travel into work 5 days a week and spending £50 a week and £200 a month on travel to work is really expensive and saving £2.50 a day makes a big difference.

I got stopped at St Pancras, they checked my ticket and they saw I hadn’t scanned in. They asked where I came from I said London Bridge. Then I was passed on to someone else who asked me which station I came from I said London Bridge. He said do you live there I said no. He asked for ID and proof of address. I didn’t have anything on me. He then asked where I lived, I told him Lewisham (which is not untrue as Ladywell is in Lewisham). He then proceeded to tell me I committed Fraud and asked for my name and address as well as my eye colour. I was able to verify my address through an online order

I asked him a couple of times about how long this would take as I needed to get to work and he said as long as it takes and threatened escalation if I didn’t comply. I then got quite stressed from the whole situation and started crying. I know I was in the wrong and am not trying to claim I am a victim.

I have been issued a fine for £54 which is fairly light all things considered. But I wanted to seek advice onto whether this is likely to be escalated into a further investigation. Also if it is normal for rail enforcement officers to take details of what you look like. Does anyone know what they do with this data? Is there a privacy policy? Or as I acted ‘fraudulently’ I have lost entitlement to privacy on the commute.

Any advice would be great.

 

[jfollows]

Welcome!
Is it a fine or a Penalty Fare?
Please post - suitably obscured - any paperwork so that we can help you.
If it’s a Penalty Fare then paying it ends the process, but I’m guessing from the information you have given.

 

[p4g]

Yes, it is a penalty fare.

So it is unlikely they will do a further investigation once it has been paid?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2024 ==

Welcome!
Is it a fine or a Penalty Fare?
Please post - suitably obscured - any paperwork so that we can help you.
If it’s a Penalty Fare then paying it ends the process, but I’m guessing from the information you have given.

Sorry, the receipt didn’t attach, resending now.

 

[John R]

Yes it's normal for them to note down details of what you look like, which would be included in any witness statement for a prosecution. It helps when someone tries to say "wasn't me you stopped", and also when someone gives a false name and address and that person is subsequently approached in regard to the offence. That data would go no further I would imagine, but they will be able to get lots of data about you previous ticket purchases, as they are entitled to ask whichever ticket retailer you use for the purposes of preventing crime. So it is not unheard of for such a case to be passed to the back office who will check how many other occasions you have purchased the same short ticket, and then ask you about those journeys.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I travel to work from Ladywell (no barriers) to St Pancras, changing at London Bridge. For the past couple of weeks I started buying return train tickets from London Bridge to St Pancras as this costs £7.40 compared to £10 from Ladywell. I know this is wrong but I travel into work 5 days a week and spending £50 a week and £200 a month on travel to work is really expensive and saving £2.50 a day makes a big difference.

Have you checked whether buying weekly or monthly season tickets would be cheaper?

 

[jfollows]

Yes, it is a penalty fare.

So it is unlikely they will do a further investigation once it has been paid?

It's unlikely, but not impossible.
If the person who stopped you suspected you were a repeat offender, it would have been normal to have reported you for potential prosecution rather than issuing a Penalty Fare, which is a one-off payment (technically not a fine) because you didn't have a valid ticket.
In normal circumstances if you pay the Penalty Fare that should be the end of the incident. Obviously your details will be on record so don't do it again, if I need to say this.
Unless you also gave them reason to believe you're a "repeat offender" that should be the end of it, but we can't promise that it won't be.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Have you checked whether buying weekly or monthly season tickets would be cheaper?

A weekly ticket from Ladywell to London St. Pancras (route "Not Underground") is £30 40. Monthly is £118.70.

 

[Watershed]

Aside from the irregularity, it is worth noting that a weekly season ticket from Ladywell to St Pancras (valid for National Rail services only, i.e. Thameslink and Southeastern) costs £30.90 a week, £118.70 a month or £1236 a year (equivalent to £103 a month).

This is considerably cheaper than buying daily paper tickets or using Oyster/contactless, if you consistently commute 5 days a week.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have been issued a fine for £54 which is fairly light all things considered. But I wanted to seek advice onto whether this is likely to be escalated into a further investigation. Also if it is normal for rail enforcement officers to take details of what you look like. Does anyone know what they do with this data?

They retain it in case they need to provide it as evidence in court.

 

[JBuchananGB]

You have got off fairly lightly. Pay the Penalty fare ASAP, and then get the most suitable duration season ticket for your commuting pattern.

 

[p4g]

A weekly ticket from Ladywell to London St. Pancras (route "Not Underground") is £30 40. Monthly is £118.70.

Thank you! Have previously looked for monthly rail tickets and found there not to be much difference at all. But will look again as that is much better than what I am currently paying.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2024 ==

They retain it in case they need to provide it as evidence in court.

Thank you! that does make sense I suppose

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2024 ==

Aside from the irregularity, it is worth noting that a weekly season ticket from Ladywell to St Pancras (valid for National Rail services only, i.e. Thameslink and Southeastern) costs £30.90 a week, £118.70 a month or £1236 a year (equivalent to £103 a month).

This is considerably cheaper than buying daily paper tickets or using Oyster/contactless, if you consistently commute 5 days a week.

That’s great! Thanks for sharing. Have looked previously but seen it to be pretty similar to contactless so will do some more research.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2024 ==

You have got off fairly lightly. Pay the Penalty fare ASAP, and then get the most suitable duration season ticket for your commuting pattern.

Yep will do aha

Aside from the irregularity, it is worth noting that a weekly season ticket from Ladywell to St Pancras (valid for National Rail services only, i.e. Thameslink and Southeastern) costs £30.90 a week, £118.70 a month or £1236 a year (equivalent to £103 a month).

This is considerably cheaper than buying daily paper tickets or using Oyster/contactless, if you consistently commute 5 days a week.

Thank you! Replied to other comments but have looked before and not found much difference in contactless so will do more research.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2024 ==

It's unlikely, but not impossible.
If the person who stopped you suspected you were a repeat offender, it would have been normal to have reported you for potential prosecution rather than issuing a Penalty Fare, which is a one-off payment (technically not a fine) because you didn't have a valid ticket.
In normal circumstances if you pay the Penalty Fare that should be the end of the incident. Obviously your details will be on record so don't do it again, if I need to say this.
Unless you also gave them reason to believe you're a "repeat offender" that should be the end of it, but we can't promise that it won't be.

Good to know. Thanks for replying. Aha yes will make sure not to do again.

 

[Haywain]

I travel to work from Ladywell (no barriers) to St Pancras, changing at London Bridge. For the past couple of weeks I started buying return train tickets from London Bridge to St Pancras as this costs £7.40 compared to £10 from Ladywell. I know this is wrong but I travel into work 5 days a week and spending £50 a week and £200 a month on travel to work is really expensive and saving £2.50 a day makes a big difference.

Using contactless on a daily basis would have cost you £4.40 (each way), so you haven't saved as much as you think. So, pay the Penalty Fare and look at either using contactless/Oyster or getting a season ticket for the full journey.

 

[30907]

Just to emphasise that the season tickets referred to are only valid on National Rail (which is the obvious route) - and to make sure you choose the "ST PANCRAS - NOT UNDERGROUND" option as there are others to London at the same price.

Also, if it is any use, you can buy from Catford/Catford Bridge at the same price.