Should station staff and guard salaries be levelled up

[Philip]

Do you think the roles of guards and all station staff (dispatchers, ticket office, gateline and cleaners) should be brought in line to be paid more or less the same salary rate, with bigger salaries for those in more senior positions? (ie. CTMs, station supervisors, ticket office team leaders)

It's not a question of how much these roles should be paid, rather whether or not they should have an equal pay rate, or is the existing structure fair as it is? The guards are currently paid a fair bit more than station staff and the arguments for this include responsibility for the safety of a train-load of passengers, ensuring the train leaves the station safely & on time, and collecting revenue.
However, dispatchers are also safety critical and are partly responsible for the safety & convenience of passengers both on the trains and on the platforms, gateline staff have the challenge of passengers always in their faces, ticket office staff also have to face the public whilst working a complex ticketing system and collecting revenue, and cleaners arguably work the hardest of the lot, sometimes in unpleasant conditions.

 

[JonathanH]

Making structural changes to pay for different roles is fraught with issues, because it needs to be justified to those who get a lower year on year increase as a result.

Pay is largely determined by the level of training and scarcity of applicants.

 

[Harpo]

Dispatchers only have a single safety critical task. Guards have many, especially in emergencies.

 

[Vespa]

I had a conversation with a Northern guard, it was interesting to note they get about £27,500, whereas I get slightly more it was an Interesting conversation regarding station staff and on board staff salaries v skill set pay, drivers are on more obviously £55,000+.

Not sure how much other TOCs get, I would imagine £27,500 is probably your ball park figure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the end salaries are generally set to a level at which you get enough applicants of suitable quality when a role comes up. Thus it doesn't make sense to just make these very different jobs paid the same.

 

[Philip]

Apart from cleaners all station roles have a few aspects in common with the guard role; helping travelling passengers, selling tickets, revenue protection, disabled assistance, dispatch of the train. Dispatchers have more than one safety critical role too, as well as dispatching the train they help with passenger assistance and general passenger safety/comfort around the station.

 

[skyhigh]

I had a conversation with a Northern guard, it was interesting to note they get about £27,500

They've been on a fair bit more for several years now. Qualified rate on the East is £33,768 plus commission/scanning payment and Sundays.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

I think you also need to take into account the hours that traincrew work. I appreciate that all Frontline staff work shifts, but guards and drivers work some very intense shifts with book ons and off throughout the middle of the night for example and also their shifts can often be changed at relatively short notice which is rare for station staff. Also as you've listed most of those responsibilities also fall in guards who are effectively carrying out a multiskilled role.

 

[Djgr]

In the end salaries are generally set to a level at which you get enough applicants of suitable quality when a role comes up. Thus it doesn't make sense to just make these very different jobs paid the same.

Yes. This is very much a supply v demand classic economics 101.

Of course supply can be artificially constrained, which is essentially why doctors are paid more than teachers.

 

[800001]

I had a conversation with a Northern guard, it was interesting to note they get about £27,500, whereas I get slightly more it was an Interesting conversation regarding station staff and on board staff salaries v skill set pay, drivers are on more obviously £55,000+.

Not sure how much other TOCs get, I would imagine £27,500 is probably your ball park figure.

Literally a 30 second search on Northern’s careers website for current northern guards shows the following for salary information

SALARY: OTE £35,000 - £37,000.

Basic salary of £26,261 until successful completion of training (for approximately 3 months); rising to £33,768 per annum on completion of training. Plus commission, overtime and the Northern benefits package.

 

[Vespa]

Literally a 30 second search on Northern’s careers website for current northern guards shows the following for salary information

Well in all fairness it was a roughly 4 years ago salaries will have risen in that time, so have mine I'm still on slightly more.

 

[43066]

Do you think the roles of guards and all station staff (dispatchers, ticket office, gateline and cleaners) should be brought in line to be paid more or less the same salary rate, with bigger salaries for those in more senior positions? (ie. CTMs, station supervisors, ticket office team leaders)

It's not a question of how much these roles should be paid, rather whether or not they should have an equal pay rate, or is the existing structure fair as it is? The guards are currently paid a fair bit more than station staff and the arguments for this include responsibility for the safety of a train-load of passengers, ensuring the train leaves the station safely & on time, and collecting revenue.
However, dispatchers are also safety critical and are partly responsible for the safety & convenience of passengers both on the trains and on the platforms, gateline staff have the challenge of passengers always in their faces, ticket office staff also have to face the public whilst working a complex ticketing system and collecting revenue, and cleaners arguably work the hardest of the lot, sometimes in unpleasant conditions.

Absolutely not. The jobs don’t have equal economic value, equal responsibilities, equal training requirements, equal numbers of (capable) applicants. Being a cleaner is an important job, but it’s also the lowest skilled, in the sense that the role can be performed by anybody able bodied, with the most rudimentary training.

Cuba is a good example of why the approach you advocate serves only to make everybody poorer in the long run.

 

[Harpo]

Dispatchers have more than one safety critical role too, as well as dispatching the train they help with passenger assistance and general passenger safety/comfort around the station.

No. 'Safety Critical' is legally defined. Simply (and incomplete) it's tasks that control vehicle movements include coupling/uncoupling, maintaining them, and maintaining track/signalling etc..

Dispatch is within the definition but those other tasks are not. They might get labelled as 'key safety' in a job description though.

 

[LowLevel]

Apart from cleaners all station roles have a few aspects in common with the guard role; helping travelling passengers, selling tickets, revenue protection, disabled assistance, dispatch of the train. Dispatchers have more than one safety critical role too, as well as dispatching the train they help with passenger assistance and general passenger safety/comfort around the station.

Having done both station and on train roles, there is far more to the guard's role, responsibilities, competencies and training than a booking clerk or dispatcher - they're more in line with a station supervisor or duty manager of a medium sized station, certainly where I am guards and station supervisors earn vaguely equivalent salaries which seems about right.

I can take charge of a train over 600 plus route miles of railway with more than one traction type and not far off 100 stations called at from major terminals like Manchester Piccadilly to rural halts.