Lots of Wind, over 50% of electricity production in 2023. A fair bit of solar as well, just under 10%. The rest being from thermal power stations. These are old coal power stations, most converted to run on biomass, a mix of wood pellets, straw and hay. Still some coal and gas turbines there as well. The main difference is that nearly all the thermal power stations are also used for district heating, meaning they are significantly more efficient than even the best CCGT.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
- Thread starter MattA7
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Interesting position right now.
Demand high at around 40GW.
Little wind (2GW) and obviously no solar. Nuclear and Drax both at near max output.
Gas at 22GW, still 3GW spare.
We are also exporting to the Dutch and Belgians, not importing from Denmark, and taking only half what we could from France.
Dinorwig, Foyers and Cruachan are on about half power between them, and battery is picking up the rest of the peak (nearly 2GW)
So there is still plenty of spare capacity between Gas, the interconnectors, pumped storage and batteries - given that the number of occasions demand has been over 45GW in recent years is counting on thumbs territory.
Demand high at around 40GW.
Little wind (2GW) and obviously no solar. Nuclear and Drax both at near max output.
Gas at 22GW, still 3GW spare.
We are also exporting to the Dutch and Belgians, not importing from Denmark, and taking only half what we could from France.
Dinorwig, Foyers and Cruachan are on about half power between them, and battery is picking up the rest of the peak (nearly 2GW)
So there is still plenty of spare capacity between Gas, the interconnectors, pumped storage and batteries - given that the number of occasions demand has been over 45GW in recent years is counting on thumbs territory.
Last edited:
I went past a wind farm near Althorpe yesterday. I was surprised that none of them were turning. The one near my house hardly ever stops.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thais interesting, a reasonable test. So would take quite a bitter Autumn to exceed that.
And Battery energy storage capacity is increasing rapidly to take care of peak time extra demand.
oliverjoseph
New Member
Yes its realistic but it will take time. The UK has set ambitious targets and is investing in EV infrastructure which is key. Challenges remain like expanding charging stations and making EVs affordable for everyone but with the right policies and technology advances its definitely doable.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Welcome to the forum Oliver.
Yes I think it will take time. The technology has to mature and so do the services to support it.
johncrossley
Established Member
Given that the vast majority of new cars in Norway are electric, it suggests that technology isn't the problem. They have achieved a high EV share through policy. Petrol cars are heavily taxed in Norway.
The techcnology and services are all there.
The time it will take is simlly because of uptake of the new technology, and the replacement cycle of the vehicle fleet.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 20,366
If plug in vehicle sales continue to climb the way they have, a petrol demand reduction/availability spiral is likely to set off in the next few years. Diesel will likely be propped up by road haulage for a while longer.
There is still a long way to go. https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market quotes the number of EVs as a percentage of all cars in the UK is just below 4%.
It varies round the country though.
Here in St Albans it’s not far off 10%. (on my road it‘s 20%, usual health warning about small sample sizes)
In central London, I reckon nearly half of all non-commercial vehicles are now EVs (counting the new London Taxi as an EV, as although technically a hybrid, it’s rare to see one with the engine running). Just today I saw a string of vehicles at a set of lights, realsied it was quiet, and all 11 of them were EVs.
As the fuel market place is necessarily local, I would expect the effect that @HSTEd suggests to start materialising in some localities pretty soon. In other parts of the country with lower EV uptake, it will take longer, naturally.
Anecdotally (of course), but I haven‘t had to queue at any local petrol station for a couple of years now, whereas before that it was a regular occurrence.
Last edited:
What you really need to look at is what sort of cars the big fleets are buying, I suspect EVs are a large proportion of this. My employer operates a large fleet of company cars and everything leased or purchased since 2021 has been an EV.
Today's company cars are tomorrow's used cars so it'll be interesting to see what happens when EVs start to hit the used car market in a meaningful way.
Also, I'm a small shareholder at a Rugby Club who have applied for planning permission to build a small industrial unit on a parcel of wasteland they own. Looking at the planning documents there is a planning condition for 10% of the car parking spaces at the development to have EV chargers capable of delivering 22kW. 5% of the spaces to be installed before the building can be occupied, the other 5% to have cabling installed ready for charger installation for when EV market develops. The chargers must be available for use at all times.
Today's company cars are tomorrow's used cars so it'll be interesting to see what happens when EVs start to hit the used car market in a meaningful way.
Also, I'm a small shareholder at a Rugby Club who have applied for planning permission to build a small industrial unit on a parcel of wasteland they own. Looking at the planning documents there is a planning condition for 10% of the car parking spaces at the development to have EV chargers capable of delivering 22kW. 5% of the spaces to be installed before the building can be occupied, the other 5% to have cabling installed ready for charger installation for when EV market develops. The chargers must be available for use at all times.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 20,366
Plug in vehicles were ~30% of registations in October, and the stats currently show the average sales of road fuels to be largely flat on a per petrol station basis - despite the fact that the number of petrol stations continues to fall.
One of the characteristics of a spiral like this is that little happens until everything happens. So no real way to tell when it will start, but I would wager it starting before sales of new ICE vehicles are banned.
miklcct
Established Member
How do you charge your vehicle when travelling to rural areas? If I want a car, the likely only use for me is to travel to forest orienteering races which are in the middle of nowhere.
Even the middle of nowhere will have a charging point within 20 miles or so.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
You have to come from somewhere to get to nowhere and the distance from somewhere with a charging point might well be well within range. Lets face it the UK is only a small island. It might take a bit of research but as time goes by the situation will get better. Also I have noticed petrol stations can be alarmingly thin and far between in the countryside and that will get worse with time (one day I might be rescued by an EV driver taking me to the nearest petrol station !).
SWT_USER
Member
Do you all have off street parking?
Anecdotally I think that is the deal-breaker for most - cheap charging and the ability to leave home every time with the car on 100% if you want to.
miklcct
Established Member
Yes, however off-street parking is also a luxury to most people living in urban areas.
Here on the Kent Coast it's next to nothing. The council run charging points that take up a third of the car park in Tenterden remain empty except when they are occupied by dfls on day trips mostly at weekends, it's rare for the pod point in Tesco's to have more than one vehicle in the four bays. The only person I know locally with an electric car gets it through some Network Rail scheme. I was offered a grant of £12k to install a car charging point in the Wittersham Village Hall but that came no where near the cost of upgrading the power supply which is lv overhead throughout the village.
Last edited:
1st point, yes. It's a deal breaker for me. Even with a very small current 900cc car, the break even point for electric car charging would be circa 50p per unit.
2nd point, not so much. I don't really need 100% every day, just enough to get me where I'm going and back again, or to a charger.
I drive 20 miles per day on average, and hardly any longer distance stuff, so I am a prime candidate for the conversion to electric.
Now, if only my workplace would fit electric charge points... It's not like they're short of electricity after all.
I think there are three main groups of EV buyers
- Fleet car buyers - e.g. Hertz or buyers of company cars. They typically turnover their stock every 1 - 3 years and the size of the market is fairly fixed. Thus the number of new EV cars purchased will stay flat once their entire fleets are EV.
- Employees taking advantage of Benefit-in-Kind tax breaks. Again this is a fairly finite size, and once fully utilised, sales will remain flat: new EV sales are just replacing older EVs.
- Private buyers. Since they are using their own money, or borrowing, they are more fickle, looking for value for money. Purchase price, depreciation, insurance and availability of chargers will be key considerations. If the number of EVs is to increase, it is this segment to be targeted.
Yes
It evidently isn’t in London though. Whilst I don’t have direct evidence, it seems implausible to me that the much higher proportion of cars on the road there that are EVs all have off street parking.
SWT_USER
Member
There is a lot of off street parking in the outer London boroughs, probably with the demographic who can afford new electric cars.
A lot of minicab/ uber drivers too where the economics still work out even without the ability to charge at home. I suspect the charging infrastructure in London is a lot more advanced than other places too which may make it more appealing to those considering a switch without off street parking - I spend a lot of time in Ealing and Hounslow and there are plenty of kerb side and lamp post chargers.
I rather imagine that the average annual mileage for cars living on a terraced street within the n/s circular road is way below the UK average mileage so public charging would be less of an issue.
Quite. It is 100% street (marked bays) parking where I am, governed by council permits. Barely 1 in 50 has off street parking they control.
Until if and when they put chargers connectable to all the bays, zero chance of me moving to an EV.
Council shows less than zero interest in this plus god only knows how appalling it’d be based on how they mismanage everything else.
Even then with anti social behaviour I’d he concerned about damage & disconnections etc.
Of course those in big houses on nice roads in leafy suburbs don’t face this reality.
When I was working in the village sports club bar one Sunday this biker from Ealing came in who'd completely run out of charge after doing a trip to Hastings. Apparently his Zero bike had gone in to limp mode shortly after Rye but he reckoned he could make it our village where there was bound to be lamppost chargers. It was beyond his comprehension that not only did we not have chargers, we also don't have lampposts. We changed the plug on his charger so he could plug it in the external socket for the kids training floodlights and he watched the village cricket for a couple of hours.
SWT_USER
Member
It's something to consider when choosing where to live. If it's important to you then choose a house or apartment complex with off street parking - as with any house you will need to balance this against other things like location and price.
I always research where I can charge when knowing I'll be doing a long trip that will require a top up. I've never experienced (so far!) any of the issues people mention about not being able to find a charge point or long waits at service station. Funnily enough I went to Hastings over summer and was able to leave the car charging in one of the sea front car parks for the day - exactly how it should work, but they could do with more of them.