Court summon for fare evasion!! Please I need assistance

[Spaco]

Please post images of all the paperwork you’ve received, include all the pages but make sure to blur out any personal information.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Nov 2024 ==

please what do I do?

 

[island]

Do you still have your ticket from London St Pancras to London Bridge?

The paperwork doesn't mention Crayford. Southeastern may have screwed up here.

They might also have been a day late in filing the papers.

 

[Spaco]

Do you still have your ticket from London St Pancras to London Bridge?

The paperwork doesn't mention Crayford. Southeastern may have screwed up here.

They might also have been a day late in filing the papers.

I have the ticket from London bridge to Crayford, it’s from st pancras to London bridge that I didn’t have.

 

[John R]

But in your original post you said

and I got half way ticket from st pancras to London bridge instead of the full one to Crayford.

So which way round is it?

 

[30907]

First of all, you need to be quite clear about which ticket you had and which you didn't.

Second, it's unusual for SE (or others) to jump straight from an initial exchange to prosecution and I wonder if a letter to you has gone missing.

I would suggest contacting them on Monday morning to see if that is so, and whether they would be willing to settle outvof court and withdraw the case.

 

[island]

I have the ticket from London bridge to Crayford, it’s from st pancras to London bridge that I didn’t have.

Your posts are extremely muddled so it's very hard to give you advice.

Please answer all of these questions, using the same numbering, even if you think you've already given the answer. I am asking about the journey you were making at the time you were stopped and spoken to by Southeastern staff.

1. What ticket did you hold for that journey? Please add a photo or screenshot of the ticket if it is still in your possession. If not, name the stations it was from and to, the ticket type, and the price. Also specify any discounts applied to your ticket.
2. Where did you purchase the ticket?
3. What journey did you make? Please name the station you got on at, all of the stations you changed trains at, and the station you got off at.
4. Exactly where were you stopped and spoken to by staff? If it was at a station, name the station and say whether it was at a ticket barrier or where else in the station. If it was on a train, specify the stations you were between when it occurred,

Full answers to all four questions are essential for us to give you accurate advice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2024 ==

Second, it's unusual for SE (or others) to jump straight from an initial exchange to prosecution and I wonder if a letter to you has gone missing.

The case was right up against the 6 month prosecution time limit which may have forced their hand.

 

[Hadders]

In addition to the questions asked by @island we have seen some examples where Southeastern appear to have 'lost' replies sent by people. It might be worth conatcting Southeastern to establish whether they received your reply to their letter.

Also, was there any other paperwork that you haven't posted. Notwithstanding the closeness to the 6-month deadline which may have forced their hand, we have seen cases where Southeastern send a letter offering an out of court settlement in the same envelope as the court summons.

 

[Spaco]

Your posts are extremely muddled so it's very hard to give you advice.

Please answer all of these questions, using the same numbering, even if you think you've already given the answer. I am asking about the journey you were making at the time you were stopped and spoken to by Southeastern staff.

1. What ticket did you hold for that journey? Please add a photo or screenshot of the ticket if it is still in your possession. If not, name the stations it was from and to, the ticket type, and the price. Also specify any discounts applied to your ticket.
2. Where did you purchase the ticket?
3. What journey did you make? Please name the station you got on at, all of the stations you changed trains at, and the station you got off at.
4. Exactly where were you stopped and spoken to by staff? If it was at a station, name the station and say whether it was at a ticket barrier or where else in the station. If it was on a train, specify the stations you were between when it occurred,

Full answers to all four questions are essential for us to give you accurate advice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2024 ==


The case was right up against the 6 month prosecution time limit which may have forced their hand.

Thanks for your response sir.

1. I was stopped at London bridge station, at that point I had only the ticket from London bridge to Crayford. Meanwhile my journey started at st pancras because that’s where I work.
2. I purchased it inside the station at London bridge on my train app.
3. I got on at st pancras heading to London bridge.
4. I approached the guys at the barrier asking them where the wash room at the station was because I was pressed, I didn’t know they were revenue officers, he asked for my tickets. That was how I was stopped. I was barely two weeks in London then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2024 ==

But in your original post you said



So which way round is it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2024 ==

Thanks for your response sir.

1. I was stopped at London bridge station, at that point I had only the ticket from London bridge to Crayford. Meanwhile my journey started at st pancras because that’s where I work.
2. I purchased it inside the station at London bridge on my train app.
3. I got on at st pancras heading to London bridge.
4. I approached the guys at the barrier asking them where the wash room at the station was because I was pressed, I didn’t know they were revenue officers, he asked for my tickets. That was how I was stopped. I was barely two weeks in London then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2024 ==

In addition to the questions asked by @island we have seen some examples where Southeastern appear to have 'lost' replies sent by people. It might be worth conatcting Southeastern to establish whether they received your reply to their letter.

Also, was there any other paperwork that you haven't posted. Notwithstanding the closeness to the 6-month deadline which may have forced their hand, we have seen cases where Southeastern send a letter offering an out of court settlement in the same envelope as the court summons.

I posted a hard copy to their office and also sent a mail, this was the only response I got since then. I was worried and that was when I posted here weeks back that I haven’t still heard from them

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2024 ==

First of all, you need to be quite clear about which ticket you had and which you didn't.

Second, it's unusual for SE (or others) to jump straight from an initial exchange to prosecution and I wonder if a letter to you has gone missing.

I would suggest contacting them on Monday morning to see if that is so, and whether they would be willing to settle outvof court and withdraw the case.

Will you want me to call them or send them a mail. I’m really confused

 

[Pushpit]

Was there a Witness Statement included in that recent mailing?

 

[island]

1. I was stopped at London bridge station, at that point I had only the ticket from London bridge to Crayford. Meanwhile my journey started at st pancras because that’s where I work.
2. I purchased it inside the station at London bridge on my train app.
3. I got on at st pancras heading to London bridge.
4. I approached the guys at the barrier asking them where the wash room at the station was because I was pressed, I didn’t know they were revenue officers, he asked for my tickets. That was how I was stopped. I was barely two weeks in London then.

So you purchased a ticket from London Bridge to Crayford while inside London Bridge station, having travelled from London St Pancras?

How did you get through the ticket barriers at London St Pancras?

 

[Spaco]

Was there a Witness Statement included in that recent mailing?

Do you mean the last mail I received ?
I forwarded the six pages here

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2024 ==

So you purchased a ticket from London Bridge to Crayford while inside London Bridge station, having travelled from London St Pancras?

How did you get through the ticket barriers at London St Pancras?

I was rushing to catch the train so I just tapped the barcode of the ticket I bought in the morning from Crayford to st pancras and it opened so I bought for the remaining journey.

I was foolish because the ticket are same price.

 

[island]

I was rushing to catch the train so I just tapped the barcode of the ticket I bought in the morning from Crayford to st pancras and it opened so I bought for the remaining journey.

I was foolish because the ticket are same price.

Indeed. And it's cheaper still to just tap in and out with a contactless payment card.

Now, I would suggest you write again to Southeastern enclosing a copy of your last letter and asking whether they might not have received it. Stress that you would appreciate the opportunity to resolve this without troubling the court.

 

[Spaco]

Indeed. And it's cheaper still to just tap in and out with a contactless payment card.

Now, I would suggest you write again to Southeastern enclosing a copy of your last letter and asking whether they might not have received it. Stress that you would appreciate the opportunity to resolve this without troubling the court.

Thank you so much, I will do just that on Monday, I will post the draft soon so you can go through it please

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==

Dear Sir,

I am writing in response to the summons regarding my scheduled appearance on 27 November 2024, concerning the charge of traveling beyond the paid distance on 06 May, 2024.

I sincerely apologise for this infraction, I take this matter seriously and I acknowledge my mistake and foolishness in purchasing the fare for a shorter distance than my intended travel.

To resolve this matter amicably, I earlier sent an email to the prosecution team on 11 June, 2024 wherein I agreed to pay the imposed fine, so as to settle out-of-court.

I understand that I am liable for the Outstanding fare avoided which is £3.90 together with the sum of £150 towards prosecution cost. I am committed and happy to pay any outstanding fare or fine As soon as possible to resolve this matter amicably and to reduce the burden on the court if it can be resolved without hearing.

I am fully willing to pay any fine imposed to account for my mistake and ensure compliance with all regulations going forward. I respectfully request that this be considered as an alternative to a court appearance, and I would be grateful for any guidance on how to proceed with settling the fine.

Thank you very much for your understanding and consideration.

Yours sincerely,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==

Good morning all!

This is the letter I want to send tomorrow, please help me look through it.
Thank you

 

[MotCO]

Please see suggested alternative text below. Part of it seems AI generated - I can't remember the last time I saw the word 'infraction' for example.

Please check that my sugested amendments are all true - e.g. always buying the correct ticket. You cannot say anything untruthful because you will be found out. If you have bought a season ticket or got any other eidence that you will always pay correctly for your journey, please add it.


Dear Sir,

Ref XXXXXXXX

I am writing in response to the summons regarding my scheduled appearance on 27 November 2024, concerning the charge of traveling beyond the paid distance on 06 May, 2024.

I sincerely apologise for this infraction error. I now realise the seriousness of take this matter seriously and I acknowledge my mistake and foolishness in purchasing the fare for a shorter distance than my intended travel. Since the date of the incident, I have ensured that I have always bought the correct ticket for my journey.

You wrote to me on 4th June, and I responded, apologising for my error, and asking if the matter could be setlled out of Court. To resolve this matter amicably, I earlier sent an email to the prosecution team on 11 June, 2024 wherein I agreed to pay the imposed fine, so as to settle out-of-court. I would still like to settle out of Court if this is possible, and I would be happy to pay any settlement covering the costs of the fare aoided and your administration costs, as soon as possible.

I understand that I am liable for the Outstanding fare avoided which is £3.90 together with the sum of £150 towards prosecution cost. I am committed and happy to pay any outstanding fare or fine As soon as possible to resolve this matter amicably and to reduce the burden on the court if it can be resolved without hearing.
I am fully willing to pay any fine imposed to account for my mistake and ensure compliance with all regulations going forward. I respectfully request that this be considered as an alternative to a Court appearance, and I would be grateful for any guidance on how to proceed with settling this matter. e fine.

Thank you very much for your understanding and consideration.

Yours faithfully sincerely,

 

[Spaco]

Thank you for your correction, I will send it first thing tomorrow morning.
I really appreciate everything this forum has done for me since the start of my case. I will be a good ambassador after this.

 

[some bloke]

You're innocent of that charge. Southeastern seem to have made the same mistake as here:

He isn't guilty of that offence. He didn't travel beyond a distance for which a ticket of his was valid - he didn't have a ticket to start with.

Southeastern seems to have accused him of the wrong crime.

However, they could ask the court to substitute an allegation of another offence.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==

So don't say this:

the charge of traveling beyond the paid distance on 06 May, 2024.

I sincerely apologise for this

It's possible that they applied for a summons because you exaggerated the seriousness of what you did (these are from the draft you posted):

I made a terrible error of judgement to not buy a full ticket travelling from London st pancras to Crayford . Instead, I bought a half ticket from London bridge to Crayford.

I learned later after the incident that this could cause financial losses

I am ready to compensate you with any administrative costs and short fares

The last statement might have been taken as meaning you have short-fared on more than one occasion. If so, it's not surprising that they have moved to prosecution.

You can point out that you aren't guilty of that offence, but accept that you travelled without first buying a ticket.

You could also mention that

- you were travelling to Crayford,

- the fare from St Pancras would have been the same,

and if true, that

you knew it was the same price, and

you have never underpaid for any train journey.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==


If you put another draft on here, people can comment more.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==


............................


Did you mean that the inspector saw other journeys where you'd underpaid, or where the fare was the same?

He requested to see my trainline history which I showed him and he discovered I got only half tickets for the journey.

it’s my first month here and it only happened not more than three times.

It hasn’t been a pattern, I recently moved to London because I got a new job and it’s my first month here and it only happened not more than three times. I don’t have any history of fare evasion in the last one year on my trainline apart from this and I sincerely regret it.

It only happened twice

........................


If avoiding a conviction is important, or may be, for visa purposes, then it may be worth paying a solicitor at some stage for help with this case (as well as getting professional advice on visas).

..........................

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==

The Statement of Facts says you admitted intending to avoid the correct fare. Is there anything you would like to clarify to Southeastern about that?

 

[Spaco]

Good morning all,

I’ve already sent the mail, I was wondering if I could still reach out to them on phone

You're innocent of that charge. Southeastern seem to have made the same mistake as here:



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==

So don't say this:


It's possible that they applied for a summons because you exaggerated the seriousness of what you did (these are from the draft you posted):




The last statement might have been taken as meaning you have short-fared on more than one occasion. If so, it's not surprising that they have moved to prosecution.

You can point out that you aren't guilty of that offence, but accept that you travelled without first buying a ticket.

You could also mention that

- you were travelling to Crayford,

- the fare from St Pancras would have been the same,

and if true, that

you knew it was the same price, and

you have never underpaid for any train journey.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==


If you put another draft on here, people can comment more.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==


............................


Did you mean that the inspector saw other journeys where you'd underpaid, or where the fare was the same?





........................


If avoiding a conviction is important, or may be, for visa purposes, then it may be worth paying a solicitor at some stage for help with this case (as well as getting professional advice on visas).

..........................

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2024 ==

The Statement of Facts says you admitted intending to avoid the correct fare. Is there anything you would like to clarify to Southeastern about that?

 

[Hadders]

Good morning all,

I’ve already sent the mail, I was wondering if I could still reach out to them on phone

Given the situation I think it's fine to call them, if you can find a number for their prosecutions department.

 

[mdann52]

Do you still have your ticket from London St Pancras to London Bridge?

The paperwork doesn't mention Crayford. Southeastern may have screwed up here.

They might also have been a day late in filing the papers.

As it's a summons, it's highly unlikely the summons would be served on the same day as the laying of information would take place - as it needs a manual review by court staff to assign a date

 

[Spaco]

As it's a summons, it's highly unlikely the summons would be served on the same day as the laying of information would take place - as it needs a manual review by court staff to assign a date

Please see suggested alternative text below. Part of it seems AI generated - I can't remember the last time I saw the word 'infraction' for example.

Please check that my sugested amendments are all true - e.g. always buying the correct ticket. You cannot say anything untruthful because you will be found out. If you have bought a season ticket or got any other eidence that you will always pay correctly for your journey, please add it.


Dear Sir,

Ref XXXXXXXX

I am writing in response to the summons regarding my scheduled appearance on 27 November 2024, concerning the charge of traveling beyond the paid distance on 06 May, 2024.

I sincerely apologise for this infraction error. I now realise the seriousness of take this matter seriously and I acknowledge my mistake and foolishness in purchasing the fare for a shorter distance than my intended travel. Since the date of the incident, I have ensured that I have always bought the correct ticket for my journey.

You wrote to me on 4th June, and I responded, apologising for my error, and asking if the matter could be setlled out of Court. To resolve this matter amicably, I earlier sent an email to the prosecution team on 11 June, 2024 wherein I agreed to pay the imposed fine, so as to settle out-of-court. I would still like to settle out of Court if this is possible, and I would be happy to pay any settlement covering the costs of the fare aoided and your administration costs, as soon as possible.

I understand that I am liable for the Outstanding fare avoided which is £3.90 together with the sum of £150 towards prosecution cost. I am committed and happy to pay any outstanding fare or fine As soon as possible to resolve this matter amicably and to reduce the burden on the court if it can be resolved without hearing.
I am fully willing to pay any fine imposed to account for my mistake and ensure compliance with all regulations going forward. I respectfully request that this be considered as an alternative to a Court appearance, and I would be grateful for any guidance on how to proceed with settling this matter. e fine.

Thank you very much for your understanding and consideration.

Yours faithfully sincerely,

Good Afternoon all,

I’m happy to let you all know that I got a feedback from the mail I sent on Monday and they agreed to settle out of court. They gave me a fine and asked that if i

can pay before 20th of Nov the case will be withdrawn.

I have paid already and it’s been closed.

I can’t thank you all enough for all you have done for me. May God bless you all.

 

[John R]

Thank you for the update and good to hear it has been resolved. Just to be clear, you haven’t paid a fine, just agreed an out of court settlement with them.

 

[MotCO]

Glad you got a good outcome. Are you happy to say how much you had to pay; it helps us advise others in future.

 

[Spaco]

Thank you for the update and good to hear it has been resolved. Just to be clear, you haven’t paid a fine, just agreed an out of court settlement with them

Glad you got a good outcome. Are you happy to say how much you had to pay; it helps us advise others in future.

Yeah sure! I paid £218, payment has been confirmed and the case will be withdrawn on the date of supposed hearing. I got a mail from them confirming it

 

[Cuthbert]

Good the outcome has been to your advantage
Just remember to keep all receipts and confirmations on you for a year or two maybe longer. Some of the pros's on here will know better.

 

[Spaco]

Good the outcome has been to your advantage
Just remember to keep all receipts and confirmations on you for a year or two maybe longer. Some of the pros's on here will know better.

This was the last mail I got, thanks I will print and save them in my files too

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for updating us on the outcome. This is a good result for you and glad we were able to assist.

 

[Spaco]

Good Evening all!

I just came back from work and met this letter at my post. What do I do please?

I thought we settled already?

 

[Hadders]

I suspect the court summons was sent before you came to an agreement with Southeastern.

If it was me I would attend the court on the 27th November to make sure that Southeastern has withdrawn the case (they have been knowm to make administrative errors). If the case is listed then seek out the prosecutor, explain what has happened and show him the email you posted from Southeastern.

 

[island]

The case has been moved from Bexley to Bromley magistrates court.

The email above in post #55 stated that the case would be withdrawn on the hearing date. The hearing date hasn't arrived yet so the court is not aware that the case is being withdrawn.

As long as you trust that Southeastern will do what they say they will do, you don't need to attend court.

 

[Spaco]

I suspect the court summons was sent before you came to an agreement with Southeastern.

If it was me I would attend the court on the 27th November to make sure that Southeastern has withdrawn the case (they have been knowm to make administrative errors). If the case is listed then seek out the prosecutor, explain what has happened and show him the email you posted from Southeastern.

Okay! Thank you, I was thinking if I should send them a mail but this is a good suggestion too

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2024 ==

The case has been moved from Bexley to Bromley magistrates court.

The email above in post #55 stated that the case would be withdrawn on the hearing date. The hearing date hasn't arrived yet so the court is not aware that the case is being withdrawn.

As long as you trust that Southeastern will do what they say they will do, you don't need to attend court.

This could be the case