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Hoping to get a little bit of advice. Earlier today I was stopped because I had a ticket that flagged up. I travel into London and on the odd occasion in the last 2 weeks a handful of times I've been late rushed onto the train and purchased a return ticket from a stop a few stops down the line.. no intention to fare dodge just signal on trains approaching that station remembered to buy a ticket and got a return. The distance between my correct stop and the one i got a return from is 12 mins and £1.40. This is genuine carelessness to buy a ticket.
In between these handful of purchases I've tapped in and out so I'm not trying to evade £1.40. I was stopped today, witness statement given and pictures of my previous fares were taken. What should I do next? I have been proactive to contact them and a note was added to my file. I just need some advice on how to approach this and what to expect. Genuinely just brought a return from the station I was at on the train itself and now this has happened. Thank you
Paying a lower fare than you should is fare-dodging, like it or not, and you could be found guilty in court of a minor "strict liability" offence (ie one you will have no defence to).
The train company will contact you, threatening you with prosecution and asking for your version of events.
However, if you engage with them, you will almost certainly be able to agree an out-of-court settlement for the full fares for your journeys (not the difference) plus an admin fee, which will vary according to the train company and how complicated your case is, but might be as much as £150.
(The main exception is TfL (tube/Overground) who almost always prosecute.)
When the letter arrives, please come back for more advice - meanwhile don't panic
Paying a lower fare than you should is fare-dodging, like it or not, and you could be found guilty in court of a minor "strict liability" offence (ie one you will have no defence to).
The train company will contact you, threatening you with prosecution and asking for your version of events.
However, if you engage with them, you will almost certainly be able to agree an out-of-court settlement for the full fares for your journeys (not the difference) plus an admin fee, which will vary according to the train company and how complicated your case is, but might be as much as £150.
(The main exception is TfL (tube/Overground) who almost always prosecute.)
When the letter arrives, please come back for more advice - meanwhile don't panic
Thank you for your quick response. There's around 6 occasions this has happened in the space of a few weeks with tickets inbetween this were I have tapped in and out for the full fare but these particular occasions was just stupid.
All I want to do is express my resolution to pay the fines and move on. I will admit fully the responsibilities of my actions but how else can I give myself the best chance for an out-of-court settlement ?
Six occasions of travelling with a short fare doesn't sound accidental to me. That said, Govia Thameslink are normally one of the more pragmatic train companies at dealing with this sort of thing. What happens next is they will write to you saying they have received a report and are considering prosecuting. I suggest a short, concide reply mentioning the following points:
- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter
Although we cannot guarantee it, GTR are normally prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate in addition to an admin fee, typically around £150.
When it arrives, post a copy of the letter in this thread, with personal details redacted, along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you
Hadders gave you a few bullet points to help you in post #4. Only you know the full story, so you could start from there and post up a draft for us to proofread.
Hi there, this is my response I have composed. It is in 2 parts Please feedback
I am writing this letter with the upmost remorse, deep regret and sincerity to express how apologetic I am for my actions. I want to take this opportunity to explain my mistake and why a lack of naivety, thoughtlessness and carelessness has put me in this position.
On 3rd September I was stopped by a revenue protection inspector and questioned on the accuracy of my ticket, at this time I was travelling with a ticket that did not cover my whole journey. The reason for this is careless to be honest, I live by Hendon and Brent Cross West Station and I had accessed the train that day via Hendon and upon my journey into Farringdon had panicked that I hadn't purchased a ticket due to rushing for the train and proceeded to purchase one from the stop I was at at the time which was Kentish Town. At the time I wasn't thinking and looking back it is foolish and careless.
I purchased a ticket for the travel without thinking of the implications this could have, the reason for not buying the incorrect ticket is due to lack of planning and preparation before my journey, I was rushing for the train having only just moved to the area, got onto the train and then proceeded to buy a ticket once I had signal to do so which happened to be Kentish Town. It sounds daft and silly and I am not a person who makes mistakes but I should have pre-paid for my ticket beforehand or used another form of purchase. This is a complete lack of concentration from my part and I realise this now and have ensured I have taken the right precautions to prevent this happening again. The total amount of incorrect travel fares totals to £11.40.
At the time when I was speaking with the revenue protection inspector the conversation lead to me admitting that there were a handful of other occasions that I had done this and the reason behind it was the same again through lack of preparation for my journey and thoughtlessness. During this period when I had these incorrect tickets, I can assure you it wasn't intentional or on purpose, I had in fact used contactless in-between and around the time of these incorrect tickets which I hope proves that when I had been more prepared and thinking straight I had travelled correctly. It was not a case of me continuously purchasing incorrect tickets with the purpose to pay less and I hope that the use of contactless either side, in-between and around these occasions does prove this. I had travelled correctly with valid tickets before, during and after this incident which I hope shows I am genuine.
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Second part -
I have tried to take every precaution possible to resolve this incident, on the day I received the warning I managed to call and speak with someone in the prosecutions team and express my desire to try and resolve this ASAP and pay any fines instantly, I believe the lady I spoke to had attached a note on my account proving that I had called and wanted to resolve this quickly as I was ashamed and embarrassed this had happened and wanted to rectify this immediately. I had waited for this letter to reach me and anxiously waited each day to the point where I even again called the number I had originally when I spoke to a staff member and left numerous voicemails requesting a call back to prove I am actively trying to resolve this and show how engaged I am to fix this.
I have learnt from this incident immensely, it will never ever happen again and now I ensure I am well prepared to travel and do so correctly after learning this tough lesson which I cannot express enough how remorseful I am.
I am expressing that I want to settle this matter without the need for court action and I can do so immediately and cooperatively, I want to rectify this by paying for all of the incorrect fares in full which totals £65.80, the difference of incorrect fares £11.40 and any administrative costs/admin fees/fines in dealing with this matter.
I have never come to the attention of Govia Thameslink Railway before or any other railway nor have I ever been in trouble with the law of any sort, I am a genuine, sincere person who has made a mistake and wants to rectify this immediately, cooperatively and without the need for court action.
Please again accept my sincere apologies on this matter and I look forward to your response,
I am expressing that I want to settle this matter without the need for court action and I can do so immediately and cooperatively, I want to rectify this by paying for all of the incorrect fares in full which totals £65.80, the difference of incorrect fares £11.40 and any administrative costs/admin fees/fines in dealing with this matter.
Although @Hadders say that you should offer this, it should actually be a request that they offer you the opportunity to settle. The ball is in their court, not yours, so what you want doesn't count for much.
Hi thanks for your replies and feedback. Let me rewrite this up and post again soon. Thank you very helpful
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Hi there.
Reworded and completely drawn back response, please advise -
I am writing this letter with the upmost remorse in response to the above referenced incident. I am truly sorry for this incident occurring and my actions and want to express this.
I have learnt a lot from this incident and can assure you it will never happen again. On the 3rd Sept I was stopped in Farringdon and I had admitted to not purchasing the correct and full ticket for my journey that day along with six other occasions.
I travel from Hendon/Brent Cross to Farringdon every day and on this occasion on the 3rd Sept and the other incorrect travel tickets from Kentish Town to Farringdon and St Pancras to Farringdon I had forgot to tap in that day or pre-purchase my ticket. This was a stupid thing to do I realise that now
I had correctly travelled before this period, during (using contactless) and after this occasion.
I am kindly requesting that you consider allowing me the opportunity to settle this incident outside and away from court.
I want to cooperate and engage as best as I can so would like to pay all of the outstanding fares in full and any administrative costs in having to deal with this matter immediately.
I am incredibly apologetic, I have never done anything like this before and it will never happen again.
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If you have any feedback on the above here that would be great ^^
Thank you again so helpful
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Hi everyone. I need to submit this response by tomorrow so if you can give advice and support on my shortened and edited version above would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
I am writing this letter with the upmost remorse in response to the above referenced incident. I am truly sorry for this incident occurring and my actions and want to express this.
I have learnt a lot from this incident and can assure you it will never happen again. On the 3rd Sept I was stopped in Farringdon and I had admitted to not purchasing the correct and full ticket for my journey that day along with six other occasions.
I travel from Hendon/Brent Cross to Farringdon every day and on this occasion on the 3rd Sept and the other incorrect travel tickets from Kentish Town to Farringdon and St Pancras to Farringdon I had forgot to tap in that day or pre-purchase my ticket. This was a stupid thing to do I realise that now
I suggest you delete this paragraph - you seem to be saying you short-fared because you forgot to tap in. It's no excuse and illegal rather than stupid.
I am kindly requesting that you consider allowing me the opportunity to settle this incident outside and away from court.
I want to cooperate and engage as best as I can so would like to pay all of the outstanding fares in full and any administrative costs in having to deal with this matter immediately.
I am incredibly apologetic, I have never done anything like this before and it will never happen again.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
