UK rail minister got engineer sacked for raising safety concerns

[Bletchleyite]

Such information is probably private, like management processes, communication procedures etc. It may not be public facing and unless we've got specific people with knowledge it might not come out. They may have changed the crowd control plan for instance. But the Office for Rail Regulation - an institution that TOCs and NR take extremely seriously - were happy with the changes.

Obviously they don't use it.

 

[Horizon22]

Obviously they don't use it.

I'm merely speculating on what the changes could be - whatever they are they satisfy the ORR and as I said, they are not one to take things lightly.

 

[redreni]

It may be that Network Rail, while content to allow the concourse at Euston to become chaotic and seemingly out of conrol on a fairly routine basis, now has a plan which would enable it to see when disaster was imminent and to intervene to avert it. It may be that they have chosen to keep this secret out of modesty.

If that is the case, that does mean they bear some of the responsibility for the fact many people, including Gareth Dennis but by no means him alone, believed the station to be as dangerous this year as it had been last year when the ORR served the improvement notice. No noticeable changes had been made and nothing had been announced regarding behind-the-scenes changes. That is still the case now.

 

[matt_world2004]

The ORR seem a pretty light touch regulator. I know of several incidents where they should have fined or taken stronger action against an organisation but didn't because the actual behaviour did not result in an accident (eg they became aware of certain safety critical employees involved in the maintenance and operations of a large scale signalling system working 72 hours a week, their report basically said "we have confidence in the managment processes that this would not happen again " not only that they agreed to keep the report confidential so it didn't cause bad press for the organisation) even though the ORR say it's safe. I strongly believe Euston to not be

 

[Starmill]

Such information is probably private, like management processes, communication procedures etc. It may not be public facing and unless we've got specific people with knowledge it might not come out. They may have changed the crowd control plan for instance. But the Office for Rail Regulation - an institution that TOCs and NR take extremely seriously - were happy with the changes.

There's no justification that's been given for it to be private. There's plenty of justification for it to be given in a little bit of detail at minimum, but nobody is available to defend it publicly. Hendy offers zero defences of it in his letters and emails, and hasn't spoken to it publicly. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one - they can't defend it because it's not defensible. You're obviously free to assume there's a compelling reason, without evidence, if you wish to. But don't be too surprised few people will do the same.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

The ORR seem a pretty light touch regulator.

They're certainly very guilty of being reactive rather than proactive about things.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

I know of several incidents where they should have fined or taken stronger action against an organisation but didn't because the actual behaviour did not result in an accident

Exactly. If they were a more competent force they'd have addressed the issues with crowding at London Euston far earlier than they did. They're very stuck in the business of reaction to fatalities or serious injuries, which they often do well. Little comfort for those few victims of course.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

It may be that Network Rail, while content to allow the concourse at Euston to become chaotic and seemingly out of conrol on a fairly routine basis, now has a plan which would enable it to see when disaster was imminent and to intervene to avert it. It may be that they have chosen to keep this secret out of modesty.

If that is the case, that does mean they bear some of the responsibility for the fact many people, including Gareth Dennis but by no means him alone, believed the station to be as dangerous this year as it had been last year when the ORR served the improvement notice. No noticeable changes had been made and nothing had been announced regarding behind-the-scenes changes. That is still the case now.

Exactly. If there's a significant change it hasn't been published what it is. How can there be a reason that trumps the public interest in keeping it a secret? How can fears that the reason it's a secret is because it actually doesn't exist be allayed? Why hasn't anyone gone on the record to answer these questions?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

This is not misappropriating public money.

If you select a more expensive or less good bid because you personally have a bee in your bonnet about one of their employees making correct statements in the media then that couldn't be any more obvious it's dishonest and maybe even unlawful. It's an unacceptable threat for any Minister to have made. If you don't agree with that perhaps you can tell me when any other current Ministers did something similar?

 

[Horizon22]

There's no justification that's been given for it to be private. There's plenty of justification for it to be given in a little bit of detail at minimum, but nobody is available to defend it publicly. Hendy offers zero defences of it in his letters and emails, and hasn't spoken to it publicly. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one - they can't defend it because it's not defensible. You're obviously free to assume there's a compelling reason, without evidence, if you wish to. But don't be too surprised few people will do the same.

Is all information from the ORR meant to be public by default? I'm not sure that it is. Perhaps there should be more and maybe that would help matters.

For instance their recent Wales & Western performance review has a lot of outcomes, but they are only lightly touched on in public-facing material.

 

[Starmill]

It is not for Hendy's own ends.

His internal emails make it abundantly clear it's personal. What other motivation could he possibly have for pressuring for him to be sacked? That's not a normal or sensible thing for any senior executive, Peer or Minister to be doing! It's bizarre he even really cared, why did Dennis repeating something true even attract the attention of Hend in the first place? The answer is obvious - because he has it in for Dennis, and thought he could get away with abusing his office to further that aim.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

Is information from the ORR meant to be public by default? I'm not sure that it is.

Given the improvement notice initially attracted significant media attention, yes. Without any doubt it's in the public interest. Why wouldn't it be?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

I've no idea why you persist with this line which is clearly not true and might be construed as defamatory.

You'll get more out of the discussion if you try to engage with the substance of the points. Resorting to "that's defamation!!!!" is usually something people do when they know they've lost and don't want to admit it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

Starmill, what are you talking about? There is no abuse of office or misappropriating of public funds.

Have you actually read the letter? It's a direct threat to dishonestly misappropriate public money if Hendy doesn't get his way. Imagine if Systra had the best value for money bid for a piece of work. The bid is rejected and Hendy persuaded Network Rail to contract with a more expensive, lower quality supplier, wasting other people's money purely so that he can have a go at someone he doesn't like for showing him up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2024 ==

All there is here is a Chair of a large and powerful organisation putting the squeeze on a supplier over the actions of one of its employees.

Indeed! A clear case of misconduct for any Lord and Minister, and an obvious problem for any senior public office holder.

 

[matt_world2004]

If there have been safety improvements to deal with the crowding at Euston , why hasn't this been shared so best practice can be achieved with other industries that also deal with crowded environments. So industries can learn fron each other

 

[CapabilityB]

This correction made me smile. Attached is two images. First is a now deleted tweet saying

Second image is one that says

He's obviously going for the scorched earth approach to handling a problem that was all his own doing.

Dragging others down with him isn't very classy

 

[GRALISTAIR]

To be honest I can see lord adonis getting a call soon. Like it or not I think lord adonis should have been offered the job before Hendy.

I think can see Hendy being asked to walk especially now the BBC have got hold of it

I hope so - to both points.

 

[Wolfie]

To be honest I can see lord adonis getting a call soon. Like it or not I think lord adonis should have been offered the job before Hendy.

I think can see Hendy being asked to walk especially now the BBC have got hold of it

Adonis seems competent and a decent man. Hendy might be competent but....

I agree that he should be out of the door...

Wonder what else might come out if the media really start digging.....

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2024 ==

He's obviously going for the scorched earth approach to handling a problem that was all his own doing.

Dragging others down with him isn't very classy

Hendy deserves everything coming to him. Arrogant obnoxious individuals do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2024 ==

Starmill, what are you talking about? There is no abuse of office or misappropriating of public funds.

All there is here is a Chair of a large and powerful organisation putting the squeeze on a supplier over the actions of one of its employees.

You might not like the tactics but sometimes in business you have to play hard. It’s a culture that is common in this country when organisations feel threatened. The old phrase of “when you have someone by the (nethers), their hearts and minds follow” applies here.

It can be brutal and is perfectly legal.

I suggest that you read the rules on public sector procurement again. Still, what do l know, l was only involved in placing contracts complying with them for nearly 40 years.....

 

[WAB]

The most likely explanations being that either they were fed up with him anyway and liked having the cover to get rid of him, or because it wasn't just a Hendy thing and they didn't think the incoming management would enjoy the criticism any more than Hendy did.

Yes, unfortunately, there are some 'personalities' within rail consulting who are big on the branding and the talk but are not very good at what they are offering to do and are annoying to work with to boot. They also have cultish cliques of mates who talk them up, recommend them, and defend them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2024 ==

The "allegations" about Hendy's sordid past personal life are established fact. He really is an odious scumbag.

I fear you are overegging it here. There are plenty out there in the industry who do worse than this and don't get called scumbags...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2024 ==

If Euston is a known problem in the industry, other people (besides the ORR) must have spoken up about it? Did they get the same treatment?

Management grades don't have the job security, so may not want to get a bad name in the industry. It's a small world for railway managers, and there are some out there who have found themselves unable to get any job in the industry for various reasons.

This is not too far away from the world of BR where the BRB and the regional chiefs could nobble the careers of anyone who rubbed them up the wrong way. Plenty in the industry will be concerned that with GBR we may be returning to that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2024 ==

I faced his ire once many years ago. Wasn't at all pleasant and I don't like the bloke's character. However, I respect him hugely as a committed public transport professional.

Most people will never know what an influence he was on both Livingston and Johnson in kerbing the worst excesses of what they wanted to do to public transport in London. Certainly in the former case he turned London's buses' fortunes around entirely.

He's the one best hope that Labour have for implementing their rail reforms successfully. I wouldn't trust Louise Haig to be able to do it properly without Hendy around.

I don't think Bob Reid 1 and 2 were the nicest blokes either in layman's terms and by modern standards and there have been mutterings about a fair few other big names and greats in the past... it seems to come with the territory of being the Big Chief.

 

[commuter41]

UK rail minister apologises for response to Euston station criticism

Peter Hendy regrets tone of letter to supplier after comments from engineer about overcrowding

www.ft.com

 

[bramling]

UK rail minister apologises for response to Euston station criticism

Peter Hendy regrets tone of letter to supplier after comments from engineer about overcrowding

www.ft.com

Regrets the tone of it, or regrets being pulled up about it? This sort of behaviour is what we have come to expect from Hendy.

 

[Dr Hoo]

None the wiser. The Financial Times link seems to be behind a paywall.

 

[josh-j]

None the wiser. The Financial Times link seems to be behind a paywall.

Also in the Guardian here:
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...hreatening-texts-over-euston-station-concerns

But, he added: “There was a sentence at the end [of the letter] where the tone of it fell well short of what should be expected, and for that I apologise.

“And what I would say is that no contractor has or will be penalised for employees raising concerns about safety.” He added: “The employment decisions about the person concerned are a matter for his employer.”

Extremely rich of him to say no contractor will be penalised when he just got caught red handed threatening to penalise a contractor.

And that last sentence... The man has some nerve.

 

[Energy]

Extremely rich of him to say no contractor will be penalised when he just got caught red handed threatening to penalise a contractor.

Absolutely no contradiction...

ORIGINAL LETTER And, of course, finding a potential supplier criticising a possible client reflects adversely on your likelihood of doing business with us or our supply chain.

NOW RESPONSE “And what I would say is that no contractor has or will be penalised for employees raising concerns about safety.”

 

[HSTEd]

Extremely rich of him to say no contractor will be penalised when he just got caught red handed threatening to penalise a contractor.

And that last sentence... The man has some nerve.

That does rather translate as "They were not penalised because they obeyed me" doesn't it.

 

[Harpo]

It would be interesting to know who/what prompted Hendy to apologise.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It would be interesting to know who/what prompted Hendy to apologise.

And why only now.

Meanwhile, Gareth Dennis is still jobless

 

[35B]

Absolutely no contradiction...

Completely aligned - it comes back to the difference between escalating within the industry, and going public.

 

[AndrewE]

It would be interesting to know who/what prompted Hendy to apologise.

Maybe an employment tribunal has come to a conclusion?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Extremely rich of him to say no contractor will be penalised when he just got caught red handed threatening to penalise a contractor.

They were not penalised as they did as they were told!

It would be interesting to know who/what prompted Hendy to apologise.

The timing is even more interesting, given the news cycle had moved on.

Wonder what other skeletons are in the cupboard? Wonder if he’s about to be slated in a tribunal decision?

 

[alholmes]

It would be interesting to know who/what prompted Hendy to apologise.

My understanding is that the question was put directly to him at an industry conference, so he had to give some sort of answer.

 

[Harpo]

Wonder if he’s about to be slated in a tribunal decision?

Hendy’s actions paint NR as an abusive monopoly customer but Dennis didn’t have an employment contract with NR.

It’s Dennis’s former employer that would be on the hook.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Hendy’s actions paint NR as an abusive monopoly customer but Dennis didn’t have an employment contract with NR.

Doesn’t mean you won’t be slated in a tribunal judgment.

My understanding is that the question was put directly to him at an industry conference, so he had to give some sort of answer.

Thanks, sort of makes sense.

 

[OuterDistant]

My understanding is that the question was put directly to him at an industry conference, so he had to give some sort of answer.

"We didn’t receive any messages, and Captain Blackadder definitely did not shoot the delicious plump breasted pigeon!"

 

[43096]

Meanwhile, Gareth Dennis is still jobless

For which he only has himself to blame.

If you fly close to the sun on numerous occasions, sooner or later you’re going to burn.

 

[43096]

Doesn’t mean you won’t be slated in a tribunal judgment.

Given that Dennis had significantly less than 12 months service in his job, he has very little recourse to a tribunal.

 

[Elecman]

"We didn’t receive any messages, and Captain Blackadder definitely did not shoot the delicious plump breasted pigeon!"

Excellent program, permission to speak?