Caught with a ticket I bought after boarding the train

[anxiouspenguin]

I want to start by saying thank-you guys for setting up this section of the forum and all the advice you provide people. I have been quite anxious since this incident and I feel a little reassured from the previous threads.

I'll start by saying I know purchasing a ticket after boarding a train is wrong. I should not have done it and I am simply seeking advice on how to go about preventing any prosecution with the Northern rail company. I won't do it again and honestly did not intend to. I am simply writing the entire detail of the incident partially to explain my end but mainly to provide all the recommended information to get appropriate advice:

I make a regular trip on Saturday and Sunday from Liverpool Lime street station to Manchester Victoria station (return journey). I take the 08:54 transpennine train. Both stations have ticket barriers. I am aware of this and would not try to board the train without a ticket as I have made this trip probably 20 times this year and have always bought a ticket in advance of my journey (I have 2 years' worth of tickets from making this exact journey and receipt of purchase ahead of time leading up to this point if that makes any difference). I make this trip for work mostly. I have started buying my tickets 1 month in advance as I make this trip every other week and my schedule is set.

The day of the incident (26/10/2024) I assumed I had already bought my ticket to travel. I buy my tickets on the trainline app. I walked through the barriers at Lime Street station as they were open on this occassion. I then boarded the 8:54 am train and arrived in Manchester Victoria station. When I arrive at the ticket barrier at Manchester Victoria Station, I go to scan what I believe to be my ticket. It is a ticket from my previous trip a fortnight ago and the barrier informs me it is expired. I searched through my tickets for the one dated 26/10/2024. I do not find one. I do find my tickets for November however. I realise I have forgotten to purchase the ticket for this weekend's trip. At this point, I panic and race to buy an open return on the train line app. I do so but as I have been waiting at the barrier for such a long time, a ticket warden approaches me and asks to scan my ticket. I provided my newly purchased ticket and the machine flags it was purchased minutes ago.

I am then asked to come to the side. I explained the above to the ticket warden and my details are taken. She informed me I would receive a letter in the post and that I am free to go after collecting my full name, D.O.B, journey, railcard photo, address and getting my signature on the Travel incident report paper she printed and handed to me. After this, I was allowed to pass through the barrier. I then went to work and following, did some research on travel incident reports which led me to this thread.

I realised it was a bad idea to purchase a ticket at that time and should have explained my situation to the ticket warden. I honestly panicked. Nevertheless, I recognise it is my mistake for not being better organised and buying my ticket. I am very worried this case will lead to a serious/adverse outcome and I would be grateful if you could advise me on how to avoid this. I do not want a criminal record or to be prosecuted. I am still very young (in my early 20s).

A good outcome for me would be to be able to pay Northern an out-of-court settlement for this incident. As mentioned, I have proof of having regularly purchased tickets for this journey for the last 2 years ( 30-40 receipts/tickets) before I travelled. I also have proof of purchasing my tickets a month in advance such as my November tickets which I have a receipt for as they were purchased in October. I have also read on the thread it is advised to pass on any issues you have had with trains before. 2 years ago, I was still using a paper rail card. I did not have it on my person when it was requested at Blackpool North Station. I was given a similar incident form and a letter sent. I completed the letter and submitted proof of my rail card. Northern Rail was happy with the provided evidence and closed the case on that occasion with no further action.

To be clear, my railcard was on my person on this occasion as you can get digital rail cards now and is of course in date/valid. It is a 16-25 railcard. I have also already drafted a letter in anticipation of the one they might send but I am yet to have received one. I am happy to provide any other information the forum members need to assist this case.


Ticket presented details:
- ticket type: Off-peak day single
- From Liverpool stations -> Manchester stations
- Route: Any permitted

I have a few questions of my own in the meantime:
- How long does the letter take to arrive?
- The likelihood of an out-of-course settlement?
- How much any out-of-court settlement will be?
- Any other information you believe I should be aware of?

I thought it might be helpful to add, that following this, I will no longer use Trainline. Their ticket storage system makes it very confusing to assess which tickets you have or do not. I have switched to one of the rail operators as theirs displays the date and current and expired tickets in chronological order.

Thank-you for any advice in advance

 

[sheff1]

My advice is to not worry and wait for a letter from Northern. When/if it arrives, post a copy on here with your personal details redacted and people will be more able to advise.

How long it takes for any letter to arrive will depend on how many cases they are dealing with. Always best to document for yourself what happened while the events are clear in the mind, but you have obviously already done that as above.

 

[John R]

The previous forgotten railcard shouldn’t be relevant, as you provided proof that you had one, and so, in line with the Conditions of Travel, the case was closed with no action.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi - I've put a few comments against relevant sections of your post in case this helps

I want to start by saying thank-you guys for setting up this section of the forum and all the advice you provide people. I have been quite anxious since this incident and I feel a little reassured from the previous threads.

I'll start by saying I know purchasing a ticket after boarding a train is wrong. I should not have done it and I am simply seeking advice on how to go about preventing any prosecution with the Northern rail company. I won't do it again and honestly did not intend to. I am simply writing the entire detail of the incident partially to explain my end but mainly to provide all the recommended information to get appropriate advice:

I make a regular trip on Saturday and Sunday from Liverpool Lime street station to Manchester Victoria station (return journey). I take the 08:54 transpennine train. Both stations have ticket barriers. I am aware of this and would not try to board the train without a ticket as I have made this trip probably 20 times this year and have always bought a ticket in advance of my journey (I have 2 years' worth of tickets from making this exact journey and receipt of purchase ahead of time leading up to this point if that makes any difference). I make this trip for work mostly. I have started buying my tickets 1 month in advance as I make this trip every other week and my schedule is set.

The day of the incident (26/10/2024) I assumed I had already bought my ticket to travel. I buy my tickets on the trainline app. I walked through the barriers at Lime Street station as they were open on this occassion. I then boarded the 8:54 am train and arrived in Manchester Victoria station. When I arrive at the ticket barrier at Manchester Victoria Station, I go to scan what I believe to be my ticket. It is a ticket from my previous trip a fortnight ago and the barrier informs me it is expired. I searched through my tickets for the one dated 26/10/2024. I do not find one. I do find my tickets for November however. I realise I have forgotten to purchase the ticket for this weekend's trip. At this point, I panic and race to buy an open return on the train line app. I do so but as I have been waiting at the barrier for such a long time, a ticket warden approaches me and asks to scan my ticket. I provided my newly purchased ticket and the machine flags it was purchased minutes ago.

Yes, as you know now you must 'buy before you board' so the kit they use to check the tickets would have flagged that you did not do this. This means you travelled without a valid ticket and although you tried to put this right when you realised it, that is still technically a criminal offence that they could prosecute you for and they would secure a guilty verdict (obv this is worst case scenario - and that's what you want to avoid)

I am then asked to come to the side. I explained the above to the ticket warden and my details are taken. She informed me I would receive a letter in the post and that I am free to go after collecting my full name, D.O.B, journey, railcard photo, address and getting my signature on the Travel incident report paper she printed and handed to me. After this, I was allowed to pass through the barrier. I then went to work and following, did some research on travel incident reports which led me to this thread.

I realised it was a bad idea to purchase a ticket at that time and should have explained my situation to the ticket warden. I honestly panicked.

Strictly within the letter of the law an explanation would not make any difference, so it would have depended on them exercising their discretion to 'let you off' - which they might not have been able to do anyway and this is made more tricky for staff when their kit registers the problem - ie their boss might well ask them why they let someone off for example.

Nevertheless, I recognise it is my mistake for not being better organised and buying my ticket. I am very worried this case will lead to a serious/adverse outcome and I would be grateful if you could advise me on how to avoid this. I do not want a criminal record or to be prosecuted. I am still very young (in my early 20s).

A good outcome for me would be to be able to pay Northern an out-of-court settlement for this incident. As mentioned, I have proof of having regularly purchased tickets for this journey for the last 2 years ( 30-40 receipts/tickets) before I travelled. I also have proof of purchasing my tickets a month in advance such as my November tickets which I have a receipt for as they were purchased in October.

This should be achievable (settlment)

I have also read on the thread it is advised to pass on any issues you have had with trains before. 2 years ago, I was still using a paper rail card. I did not have it on my person when it was requested at Blackpool North Station. I was given a similar incident form and a letter sent. I completed the letter and submitted proof of my rail card. Northern Rail was happy with the provided evidence and closed the case on that occasion with no further action.

This would have been resolved under the 'forgotten railcard policy' so should not count against you now

To be clear, my railcard was on my person on this occasion as you can get digital rail cards now and is of course in date/valid. It is a 16-25 railcard. I have also already drafted a letter in anticipation of the one they might send but I am yet to have received one. I am happy to provide any other information the forum members need to assist this case.


Ticket presented details:
- ticket type: Off-peak day single
- From Liverpool stations -> Manchester stations
- Route: Any permitted

I have a few questions of my own in the meantime:
- How long does the letter take to arrive?

hard to tell - could be a few weeks for sure, or a month or so

- The likelihood of an out-of-course settlement?

Fairly strong chance I would think

- How much any out-of-court settlement will be?
- Any other information you believe I should be aware of?

There are three things that could happen next I suspect

a) nothing. case gets lost or some decision taken not to take further action - I think this is unlikely

b) Northern send what they call a 'Fixed Penalty Notice'. This is basically an out of court settlement offer sent to you without you asking for it, dressed up a fine. It's £100 plus the cost of the fare for the trip concerned. Pay that promptly and it concludes the matter. keep proof of payment. Good likelihood this is what will happen is my hunch

c) You will get a letter indicating they are thinking of prosecuting you but this is your chance to explain what happened. So that's an opportunity to ask for an out of court settlement along lines of many you see on this forum. Cost maybe £150 + cost of fare if they agree to it.

It's vital you get these letters (or e-mails if they use that so check spam too) and that you reply / respond to them (b or c options that is)

when you get anything from them people here can advise you on what to do.

I thought it might be helpful to add, that following this, I will no longer use Trainline. Their ticket storage system makes it very confusing to assess which tickets you have or do not. I have switched to one of the rail operators as theirs displays the date and current and expired tickets in chronological order.

good plan - and this is something you could say, if you have to reply to option c, that you have done as a way of preventing the mistake you made on this occasion happening again. ie show you have pro actively done something to avoid the problem in future.

Also - as an aside I assume you have checked if a flexi season ticket is a better option for you financially. Might be worth a look.

Thank-you for any advice in advance

 

[anxiouspenguin]

My advice is to not worry and wait for a letter from Northern. When/if it arrives, post a copy on here with your personal details redacted and people will be more able to advise.

How long it takes for any letter to arrive will depend on how many cases they are dealing with. Always best to document for yourself what happened while the events are clear in the mind, but you have obviously already done that as above.

Thank-you for the advice! I have been checking for the letter regularly and will post it with redacted details when it arrives.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2024 ==

The previous forgotten railcard shouldn’t be relevant, as you provided proof that you had one, and so, in line with the Conditions of Travel, the case was closed with no action.

Thank-you for informing me of this. It is one less thing to worry about

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2024 ==

Hi - I've put a few comments against relevant sections of your post in case this helps




Yes, as you know now you must 'buy before you board' so the kit they use to check the tickets would have flagged that you did not do this. This means you travelled without a valid ticket and although you tried to put this right when you realised it, that is still technically a criminal offence that they could prosecute you for and they would secure a guilty verdict (obv this is worst case scenario - and that's what you want to avoid)



Strictly within the letter of the law an explanation would not make any difference, so it would have depended on them exercising their discretion to 'let you off' - which they might not have been able to do anyway and this is made more tricky for staff when their kit registers the problem - ie their boss might well ask them why they let someone off for example.


This should be achievable (settlment)



This would have been resolved under the 'forgotten railcard policy' so should not count against you now


hard to tell - could be a few weeks for sure, or a month or so



Fairly strong chance I would think



There are three things that could happen next I suspect

a) nothing. case gets lost or some decision taken not to take further action - I think this is unlikely

b) Northern send what they call a 'Fixed Penalty Notice'. This is basically an out of court settlement offer sent to you without you asking for it, dressed up a fine. It's £100 plus the cost of the fare for the trip concerned. Pay that promptly and it concludes the matter. keep proof of payment. Good likelihood this is what will happen is my hunch

c) You will get a letter indicating they are thinking of prosecuting you but this is your chance to explain what happened. So that's an opportunity to ask for an out of court settlement along lines of many you see on this forum. Cost maybe £150 + cost of fare if they agree to it.

It's vital you get these letters (or e-mails if they use that so check spam too) and that you reply / respond to them (b or c options that is)

when you get anything from them people here can advise you on what to do.



good plan - and this is something you could say, if you have to reply to option c, that you have done as a way of preventing the mistake you made on this occasion happening again. ie show you have pro actively done something to avoid the problem in future.

Also - as an aside I assume you have checked if a flexi season ticket is a better option for you financially. Might be worth a look.

Thank-you so much. This has really helped to calm my nerves. I am regularly checking for the letter and as soon as it arrives, I will post it with redacted details for advice.

I will also add in your suggestion of my change in ticket company to prevent this from happening in any draft letter.

I can't thank-you all enough. I will provide an update as soon as I am able to.

edit: I forgot to add, I have looked into a season ticket but I don't travel enough for it to be economically worth it. At least I was told this by the ticket office.

 

[anxiouspenguin]

Hello, an update for everyone. I received the letter about 2 months following the incident. I was away for Christmas but saw it as soon as I got back and did as it stated. From reading this thread they were very kind with this approach towards me. Regardless, I have become hypervigilant with my ticket checking before boarding and changed train apps. Thank-you for the kind words and reassurances. Thank-you for the advice to prevent this from happening in the future as well.

Also, Apologies for completely blacking out half the letter. I wasn't sure if some of the barcodes were identifying.

 

[30907]

Hello, an update for everyone. I received the letter about 2 months following the incident. I was away for Christmas but saw it as soon as I got back and did as it stated. From reading this thread they were very kind with this approach towards me. Regardless, I have become hypervigilant with my ticket checking before boarding and changed train apps. Thank-you for the kind words and reassurances. Thank-you for the advice to prevent this from happening in the future as well.

Also, Apologies for completely blacking out half the letter. I wasn't sure if some of the barcodes were identifying.

Thanks for the update - you left enough of the letter visible to be useful.

You did well there!