Great Northern Fleet - 379s introduction

[D365]

Will be interesting to know how many differences there are between class 379 and class 387 cabs?

Especially once the 379s [and more 387s] start going for ETCS fitment.

 

[gm671]

Will be interesting to know how many differences there are between class 379 and class 387 cabs

Not much. No DC system (2 buttons!) but they have some quirks and the main difference is the MITRAC (software) system is completely different. Likely to be a 2day or so course, dependent on whether brake handling is included, all still being discussed/challenged by H&S.

 

[xxjcz]

With it being eerily silent on the 379’s refresh before service, what diagram do we think they will first enter service on? The new Peterborough diagram that will be introduced then goes on to do an Ely run so I doubt it would be that. Could it be the letchworth new diagrams as they start at letchworth and then sit at Hornsey all day before going back to letchworth? Or will that diagram be run by 717s? Perhaps they reshuffle the 700/1 diagram on the GN so the 379 works that instead first?

 

[D365]

With it being eerily silent on the 379’s refresh before service…

Eerily silent? Is there much to report?

 

[physics34]

Some dates and numbers would be nice

 

[JonathanH]

Some dates and numbers would be nice

Why would they be posted here if they aren't yet in the public domain? Whilst it is great that this forum is a chance to find out things about railway operations, if the railway is still working things out it really doesn't need to make that public.

If the railway wants to be 'eerily silent', that is its place to be so.

 

[physics34]

Why would they be posted here if they aren't yet in the public domain? Whilst it is great that this forum is a chance to find out things about railway operations, if the railway is still working things out it really doesn't need to make that public.

If the railway wants to be 'eerily silent', that is its place to be so.

I don't expect them to, it would just be nice, just saying. As a member of GTR staff we don't hear much in advance.

 

[JonathanH]

I don't expect them to, it would just be nice, just saying.

Yes, I suppose one visible sign that would be public information is if they were routinely running up and down the GN routes in preparation for their new role.

The parttimespotter blog indicates seven 379s at Nene sidings, and six at Hornsey, with the rest at Worksop - https://partimespotter.wordpress.com/2024/11/01/class-379-locations-01-11-2024/

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Yes, I suppose one visible sign that would be public information is if they were routinely running up and down the GN routes in preparation for their new role.

The parttimespotter blog indicates seven 379s at Nene sidings, and six at Hornsey, with the rest at Worksop - https://partimespotter.wordpress.com/2024/11/01/class-379-locations-01-11-2024/

better off pan up heat on than being stored at Worksop

 

[brad465]

better off pan up heat on than being stored at Worksop

Doesn't Worksop have warm storage capability if needed? I'm sure they've stored new stock there in "warm" state ahead of moving to where they operate.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Doesn't Worksop have warm storage capability if needed? I'm sure they've stored new stock there in "warm" state ahead of moving to where they operate.

They may have shore supplies that will keep the carriages warm but given the amount they have that would need a hefty supply and it certainly wouldn't allow the traction transformers to be kept energised.

 

[Transilien]

Is it planned for the 387s and 379s to be coupled together in regular service?

 

[Doomotron]

Is it planned for the 387s and 379s to be coupled together in regular service?

It's very unlikely they're compatible and it's unlikely they'd be modified to be anyway.

 

[D365]

They may have shore supplies that will keep the carriages warm but given the amount they have that would need a hefty supply and it certainly wouldn't allow the traction transformers to be kept energised.

I’m not sure what you mean by traction transformers. Unless a unit has the capability for shunting via a gantry cable, the shore supply will only provide auxiliary power.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I’m not sure what you mean by traction transformers. Unless a unit has the capability for shunting via a gantry cable, the shore supply will only provide auxiliary power.

I mean that without 25kV at Worksop the traction side isn't going to be energised.

 

[Peter Sarf]

better off pan up heat on than being stored at Worksop

I get the impression that the 379s are being rotated. Or at least different units are coming to Hornsey to be assessed/got-ready then sent off to else where because space does not allow many to be kept at Hornsey.

Perhaps a clue to use approaching will be if any 387s drift south of the Thames (don't think any have yet) or we see some driver training runs on 379s (have there been any ?).

EDIT
According to @St. Paddy (below) - Driver training has started but merely requires a one day classroom exercise. Will only see shakedown/test runs and transfers to/from Nene sidings.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

As GN railway has said that they are going to start to bring the 379s on the December 24 timetable with peak services from King's Cross to Peterborough but also, I will tell you that King's Cross to King's Lynn will have more 700s on the route. The Thameslink 700s

 

[xxjcz]

I get the impression that the 379s are being rotated. Or at least different units are coming to Hornsey to be assessed/got-ready then sent off to else where because space does not allow many to be kept at Hornsey.

Perhaps a clue to use approaching will be if any 387s drift south of the Thames (don't think any have yet) or we see some driver training runs on 379s (have there been any ?).

387124 went to Stewart’s lane on Friday night but I think that’s for maintenance work

 

[LA50041]

With it being eerily silent on the 379’s refresh before service, what diagram do we think they will first enter service on? The new Peterborough diagram that will be introduced then goes on to do an Ely run so I doubt it would be that. Could it be the letchworth new diagrams as they start at letchworth and then sit at Hornsey all day before going back to letchworth? Or will that diagram be run by 717s? Perhaps they reshuffle the 700/1 diagram on the GN so the 379 works that instead first?

The rough plan is that the first circuits to convert are peak only. 1 - 1P85/1P82, 2 - 1R09/1L48, 3 1R11/1L50.
These diagrams will be covered by 700/0's until the 379's are ready. (there is no confirmed date for this but April/May is being suggested at this point)

Is it planned for the 387s and 379s to be coupled together in regular service?

No.

As GN railway has said that they are going to start to bring the 379s on the December 24 timetable with peak services from King's Cross to Peterborough but also, I will tell you that King's Cross to King's Lynn will have more 700s on the route. The Thameslink 700s

Only 1 return train per day at Kings Lynn is planned to be 700 (1T94/1T15). There are more at Ely.

 

[St. Paddy]

I get the impression that the 379s are being rotated. Or at least different units are coming to Hornsey to be assessed/got-ready then sent off to else where because space does not allow many to be kept at Hornsey.

Perhaps a clue to use approaching will be if any 387s drift south of the Thames (don't think any have yet) or we see some driver training runs on 379s (have there been any ?).

Driver training has started, one day course with no practical handling needed due to similarities to the 387 cab. Therefore, the only runs you may see before the new timetable are shakedown/test runs and swaps to and from Nene CS

 

[Peter Sarf]

Driver training has started, one day course with no practical handling needed due to similarities to the 387 cab. Therefore, the only runs you may see before the new timetable are shakedown/test runs and swaps to and from Nene CS

Thanks, updated my post.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

With it being eerily silent on the 379’s refresh before service, what diagram do we think they will first enter service on? The new Peterborough diagram that will be introduced then goes on to do an Ely run so I doubt it would be that. Could it be the letchworth new diagrams as they start at letchworth and then sit at Hornsey all day before going back to letchworth? Or will that diagram be run by 717s? Perhaps they reshuffle the 700/1 diagram on the GN so the 379 works that instead first?

Have any Class 717s ran to Letchworth? Currently are their only diagrams from Moorgate to Stevenage, Welwyn GC and Hertford North? Are any diagrammed to run out of Kings Cross? As a underutilized fleet, why do they sit at Hornsey depot idle?

 

[Bikeman78]

Have any Class 717s ran to Letchworth? Currently are their only diagrams from Moorgate to Stevenage, Welwyn GC and Hertford North? Are any diagrammed to run out of Kings Cross? As a underutilized fleet, why do they sit at Hornsey depot idle?

There are two late night trains from Moorgate to Letchworth.

 

[bramling]

Have any Class 717s ran to Letchworth? Currently are their only diagrams from Moorgate to Stevenage, Welwyn GC and Hertford North? Are any diagrammed to run out of Kings Cross? As a underutilized fleet, why do they sit at Hornsey depot idle?

It’s a matter of debate whether the issue is insufficient drivers, or that no one wants to pay for extra services to restore things to 2019 levels. The outer-suburban service isn’t far off now, with the main thing missing being the evening services to Peterborough and Baldock, and the full density of peak extras. By contrast the inner-suburban service is still decimated both peak and off-peak.

 

[jon0844]

Is it planned for the 387s and 379s to be coupled together in regular service?

No. I expect they can couple up in ECS mode for operational moves, but I assume they'll likely run in fixed formations on dedicated diagrams.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2024 ==

It’s a matter of debate whether the issue is insufficient drivers, or that no one wants to pay for extra services to restore things to 2019 levels. The outer-suburban service isn’t far off now, with the main thing missing being the evening services to Peterborough and Baldock, and the full density of peak extras. By contrast the inner-suburban service is still decimated both peak and off-peak.

Rather then seek to run toilet-less trains longer distances, I just wish the DfT would utilise them for a higher frequency service for more of the day. If not all day as originally planned, at least extend the peaks and close the gap.

And on a Sunday, with the reduced frequencies of the outer stoppers, these are great to fill the gaps and Sundays are not quiet days anymore.

 

[St. Paddy]

No. I expect they can couple up in ECS mode for operational moves, but I assume they'll likely run in fixed formations on dedicated diagrams.

They can only couple for assistance purposes to clear the line from what I understand

 

[xxjcz]

The rough plan is that the first circuits to convert are peak only. 1 - 1P85/1P82, 2 - 1R09/1L48, 3 1R11/1L50.
These diagrams will be covered by 700/0's until the 379's are ready. (there is no confirmed date for this but April/May is being suggested at this point)

No.

Only 1 return train per day at Kings Lynn is planned to be 700 (1T94/1T15). There are more at Ely.

Has there been some re-shuffling of diagrams as I’m sure there’s only around half a dozen 700/0’s free and they’re normally covering 700/1 diagrams.


Also, would the 700/0’s coming in to cover these new peak diagrams alter the current gn diagrams in terms of 387 usage? Ie does this change the 4 gn diagrams that 700/0s already cover on the gn?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Nov 2024 ==

Driver training has started, one day course with no practical handling needed due to similarities to the 387 cab. Therefore, the only runs you may see before the new timetable are shakedown/test runs and swaps to and from Nene CS

So during the training you guys don’t actually get to see the train? Just wondering whether you would have had a chance to see what they have done with the interior and also the MITRAC system, have they kept it the same software or have they tried to update it so that they can couple and communicate with the 387s?

 

[LA50041]

Has there been some re-shuffling of diagrams as I’m sure there’s only around half a dozen 700/0’s free and they’re normally covering 700/1 diagrams.


Also, would the 700/0’s coming in to cover these new peak diagrams alter the current gn diagrams in terms of 387 usage? Ie does this change the 4 gn diagrams that 700/0s already cover on the gn?

My understanding is that the additional 3 x 700/0 diagrams will be covered with some minor changes to the fleet maintenance routines, with more maintenance being undertaken between the peaks on some of these units.

 

[St. Paddy]

So during the training you guys don’t actually get to see the train? Just wondering whether you would have had a chance to see what they have done with the interior and also the MITRAC system, have they kept it the same software or have they tried to update it so that they can couple and communicate with the 387s?

There’s static training in the yard at Hornsey and this will involve internal training. Not aware of any compatibility with 387s

 

[gm671]

So during the training you guys don’t actually get to see the train? Just wondering whether you would have had a chance to see what they have done with the interior and also the MITRAC system, have they kept it the same software or have they tried to update it so that they can couple and communicate with the 387s?

Training is slated to be classroom and unit based (in the yard). There will likely to be a dispute over the lack of brake handling.


Don't expect any changes bar a GN logo slapped on the outside, and they haven't even got round to that yet. There is absolutely no money for anything else.

They will never be run with 387s and will operate as a distinct, separate fleet. The MITRAC systems are totally incompatible, with 387s running on Windows based architecture and 379s on Linux. It was looked into but now completely off the table as the cost of new software is exorbitant and would massively outweigh any gain.