Stockport Signalling (trespass, 02 Nov 24)

[Tilting007]

Fitters got the pan raised on 1A71…
Passengers will transfer at Stockport to the rescue unit and 1A71 unit onto the depot.

 

[The exile]

There are full turnback capabilities at Stockport, albeit most platforms requiring a shunt, and areas to reverse at Heaton Norris Junction. Permissive working is also allowed "during periods of significant service disruption only" in platforms 1, 2, 3 and 4.

This is nothing to do with the age of the signalling in the Stockport Area - even the resignalling plans for Slade Lane Junction to Stockport that were both proposed and planned didn't have turnbacks in the Levensulme and Heaton Chapel areas - its impractical to have turnbacks every mile or so. This appears to be an issue with the operational side of things.

Trains were certainly departing "south" from Stockport by about quarter to five, having presumably been turned back there. To be absolutely accurate, I only witnessed one ( a Buxton) as I walked through, but it sounded as if others were expected.

 

[jfollows]

Trains were certainly departing "south" from Stockport by about quarter to five, having presumably been turned back there. To be absolutely accurate, I only witnessed one ( a Buxton) as I walked through, but it sounded as if others were expected.

It’s only possible to head south from the down platforms 3 & 4 with ground signals (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/heaton-norris-denton-signals.258549/#post-6538505) so not possible for passenger trains.
(See correction by @Tomnick below, what I wrote isn’t true, the ground signals are fixed at danger)
Only possible by reversing (empty) on the viaduct or on the Denton line after Heaton Norris Junction, then using platforms 0-2. So it’s not done easily. But not impossible.

 

[diffident]

The replacement train to Euston (1T71) seems to have stopped reporting on Realtime Trains about 40 minutes ago at Cheadle Hulme. I hope for the passengers they are not caught up in more delays.

 

[Trainguy34]

The replacement train to Euston (1T71) seems to have stopped reporting on Realtime Trains about 40 minutes ago at Cheadle Hulme. I hope for the passengers they are not caught up in more delays.

Looks from Traksy to now be in platform 3 at Cheadle Hume, presumably having turned round at the crossovers at the end of the platform.
Edit: Now shown to be moving back towards Stockport, so who knows...

 

[M60lad]

There also seemed to be some interesting movements as well such as the following:

Realtime Trains | 1L15 1551 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly | 02/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 1L15 1551 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly on 02/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Which seemed to somehow run from Oxford Road to Manchester Piccadilly platform 4, now whether it did this in service or dropped off passengers on Platform 13 and then shunted to Platform 4 I'm not to sure.

 

[diffident]

Looks from Traksy to now be in platform 3 at Cheadle Hume, presumably having turned round at the crossovers at the end of the platform.
Edit: Now shown to be moving back towards Stockport, so who knows...

Indeed, very strange. To be heading back from whence it came is odd.

 

[D365]

Passengers from Birmingham to Manchester were apparently being diverted via Leeds.

 

[185]

There also seemed to be some interesting movements as well such as the following:

Realtime Trains | 1L15 1551 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly | 02/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 1L15 1551 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Piccadilly on 02/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Which seemed to somehow run from Oxford Road to Manchester Piccadilly platform 4, now whether it did this in service or dropped off passengers on Platform 13 and then shunted to Platform 4 I'm not to sure.

It went out from platform 13, ended up at the signal behind 1A71 the 1635 Man-Eus Avanti (demic) sat at Slade Lane Jn, then changed ends and went back after a period of time.

 

[Tomnick]

It’s only possible to head south from the down platforms 3 & 4 with ground signals (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/heaton-norris-denton-signals.258549/#post-6538505) so not possible for passenger trains.
Only possible by reversing (empty) on the viaduct or on the Denton line after Heaton Norris Junction, then using platforms 0-2. So it’s not done easily. But not impossible.

The signals at the Up end of the Down platforms are limit of shunt signals, fixed at danger. The only line on that side with a signalled route back out south is the Down Goods. Reversing on the viaduct or at Heaton Norris shouldn't be a drama, especially if there's nothing running north anyway! I've done it a couple of times (once in the middle of an otherwise normal day too). A bit trickier if the driver can't change ends inside the train.

 

[Trainguy34]

Looks like it's not the only train, 2T87 has turned at Macclesfield of all the places!

Indeed, very strange. To be heading back from whence it came is odd.

 

[diffident]

Looks like it's not the only train, 2T87 has turned at Macclesfield of all the places!

This maybe pre-emptive, but it (1T71) now appears stationary at Edgeley Junction, with what I assume is an engineering train stuck behind it.

Very wierd goings on. I certainly feel for all those passengers on the service.

 

[jfollows]

The signals at the Up end of the Down platforms are limit of shunt signals, fixed at danger. The only line on that side with a signalled route back out south is the Down Goods. Reversing on the viaduct or at Heaton Norris shouldn't be a drama, especially if there's nothing running north anyway! I've done it a couple of times (once in the middle of an otherwise normal day too). A bit trickier if the driver can't change ends inside the train.

The Sectional Appendix (https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sectional-appendix/Sectional Appendix full PDFs September 24/London North Western (North) Sectional Appendix September 2024.pdf) notes this also, thanks. And a passenger train couldn’t use the Down Goods anyway.

Trains may only turnback towards Manchester from Platform 1 or Platform 3A. Trains may only turnback towards Edgeley from the Down Goods.

 

[Trainguy34]

Looks like a line block between Cheadle Hume and Macclesfield, leading 1T71 (The replacement) and 2T87 to turn round. It's gonna be a long night, 6 hours late into Euston at least for some!

 

[jfollows]

Looks like a line block between Cheadle Hume and Macclesfield, leading 1T71 (The replacement) and 2T87 to turn round. It's gonna be a long night, 6 hours late into Euston at least for some!

1T71 now going via Crewe & Wilmslow!
Should have been at Hanslope Junction via Stoke by now. Actually approaching Chelford.

 

[Trainguy34]

1T71 now going via Crewe & Wilmslow!
Should have been at Hanslope Junction via Stoke by now.

If nothing happened and it left Manchester on time it should be at Euston in about negative 5 hours!

 

[craigybagel]

Transport for Ebbw Vale decided to not retain diversions, so now Stoke, Earlestown, and Stafford are off most traincrew cards.

More than half of the drivers and all the guards at Crewe sign Warrington, with more learning it all the time.

Some do. Many lapsed & gone off their card. New staff seemingly not being trained on it.

All those who lapsed it during COVID have regained it, and newer drivers are currently learning it. 3 ECS runs (1 in the morning to Manchester and 2 returning in the evening) run that way every day. However.....

Too much congestion. The Llandudno - Manchester services were all turning back at Warrington to avoid clogging up Oxford Road.

Terminating the Chesters at Warrington Bank Quay is acceptable as there is now an alternative Vic/Leeds service... however failing to run the Cardiff - Manchesters via NLW is not only a missed opportunity but plain incompetency by TfW senior management - if the past three (BR, FNW, W&B and ATW) running the route managed to do it - TfW management should be booted down the road for this.

Warrington can only normally be used as a preplanned diversion for engineering work, not as an ad-hoc thing like today. There just aren't the paths available, especially when you need somewhere to turn around in Manchester, and it's near impossible to get from Crewe to Manchester and back in the required 1:40 to avoid adding further delay to services.

No incompetence here, just the reality of dealing with a challenging situation.

 

[diffident]

If nothing happened and it left Manchester on time it should be at Euston in about negative 5 hours!

Lets be a little bit fair here. At least Avanti are still running it instead of just terminating it at Stockport and stranding possibly a few hundred poor folks!

 

[Thomas6187]

1T71 been delayed due to a body being found on the Line near Bramhall

 

[diffident]

The train is going via Birmingham now just to compound the delays for the passengers on board!

 

[Trainguy34]

I'm guessing an 8 hour delay, but all on the train instead of off-train! That just sounds painful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2024 ==

Lets be a little bit fair here. At least Avanti are still running it instead of just terminating it at Stockport and stranding possibly a few hundred poor folks!

Yeah, of all places to be stuck, Stockport is the worst I can think of!

Edit: It's so quiet it's had the line set from Bushbury Jn (Near Wolverhampton) all the way to nearly Aston on the other side of Birmingham, currently navigating Bescot and Tame Bridge. At least you wouldn't have to pay for a hotel for the night I guess!

Starting to remind me of Nightsleeper at this point with all of these twists and turns!

 

[diffident]

It will be interesting to see what the delay is when it turns back up on RealTimeTrains at Colwich Jct!

 

[jfollows]

It will be interesting to see what the delay is when it turns back up on RealTimeTrains at Colwich Jct!

booked:
21:54 Stockport
23:07 Rugby TV Junction
at 00:31 it’s just passed Stechford

will be around 01:00 at Rugby TV Junction

 

[Jimini]

booked:
21:54 Stockport
23:07 Rugby TV Junction
at 00:31 it’s just passed Stechford

will be around 01:00 at Rugby TV Junction

More 'scenery' on the horizon via Northampton after that?

 

[jfollows]

More 'scenery' on the horizon via Northampton after that?

Looks like it!

 

[diffident]

More 'scenery' on the horizon via Northampton after that?

Looks like it!

What a horrible trip this has turned into!

Edit: So now a post 2am arrival at Euston? Urgh!

 

[Trainguy34]

What a horrible trip this has turned into!

Edit: So now a post 2am arrival at Euston? Urgh!

Here's hoping the stations open, it's shuts at 2 until half 5, so nearly an 11 hour delay!

Edit: Also looks like a ride on the slows all the way to Euston, so sounds like a fun one?

 

[diffident]

Here's hoping the stations open, it's shuts at 2 until half 5, so nearly an 11 hour delay!

Edit: Also looks like a ride on the slows all the way to Euston, so sounds like a fun one?

Yep. Definitely the slow lines... I do hope that train had plenty of bottled beer on board for the free drinks this journey clearly owes it's passengers!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2024 ==

So, 1T71 (formerly 1A71) has arrived at Euston just the odd 8 1/2 hours late, including a change of train and several reversals. It also took in a tour of the West Midlands and Northampton along the way.

What a fun night that must have been for the passengers on board.

 

[Krokodil]

I wonder how many saw it out until the bitter end.

 

[iknowyeah]

Posted a new thread about this before I saw this one. The guard on the 1306 Crewe didn't get back to Piccadilly until about 2210.

This unit managed to move from the Airport around 1800 however lost power at Styal due to the switch off and was stuck there around 25 minutes, much to the delight of a Swedish train driver who got a tour of the train whilst it was waiting!