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Differences in expected departure times between station PIS screens.

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TUC

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This morning at Halifax I noticed that, for the slightly late running 0559 to Leeds one of the screens in the station was showing the expected departure time to be 0601, the other 0602.

Similarly, tonight in Leeds I saw for a service that on one screen that the expected departure was 2030, on the other 2031.

On one level these differences are minor, but I am still puzzled how they occur? Do different screens pull ftom different sources?
 
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pokemonsuper9

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They'll definitely be pulling from the same source, but my theory is that they are refreshing at different times, being only a minute apart makes that quite likely.
 

The exile

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This morning at Halifax I noticed that, for the slightly late running 0559 to Leeds one of the screens in the station was showing the expected departure time to be 0601, the other 0602.

Similarly, tonight in Leeds I saw for a service that on one screen that the expected departure was 2030, on the other 2031.

On one level these differences are minor, but I am still puzzled how they occur? Do different screens pull ftom different sources?
Certainly here in GWR land the public screens and the (publicly visible) "staff information" screens must pull from different sources as they often differ significantly - including after refreshing. The staff one will often display (correct) information for a matter of minutes while the platform screens and announcements still churn out rubbish (when it's a platform change that entails going down stairs, through a subway and up another set of stairs those minutes can be critical)
 

thejuggler

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I was in Leeds station last week and the platform screen clock was about 6 minutes fast.
 

FD99

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In our neck of the woods, if the train is delayed, and the booked time has come and gone, the PIS just starts showing the next service (which could be two hours away if at all). Leaves you with no information other than RTT and even that’s not great on the line in question.
 

TUC

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In our neck of the woods, if the train is delayed, and the booked time has come and gone, the PIS just starts showing the next service (which could be two hours away if at all). Leaves you with no information other than RTT and even that’s not great on the line in question.
If all PIS screens draw from the same source, why would examples like the above occur?
 

Stephen42

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If all PIS screens draw from the same source, why would examples like the above occur?
If the station doesn't usually get times recorded automatically, trains are normally removed after the estimated time on the assumption no delay since last recorded. If they weren't trains could be left on the boards well after they've gone with a long wait to the next one. Much of the actual time reporting relies on either train describers from the signalling system, GPS or manual records entered after the fact. In the absence of a recent actual report the system powering PIS screens needs to make judgement calls on where the train is likely to be.
 

TUC

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If the station doesn't usually get times recorded automatically, trains are normally removed after the estimated time on the assumption no delay since last recorded. If they weren't trains could be left on the boards well after they've gone with a long wait to the next one. Much of the actual time reporting relies on either train describers from the signalling system, GPS or manual records entered after the fact. In the absence of a recent actual report the system powering PIS screens needs to make judgement calls on where the train is likely to be.
Even though sites such as RTT pulls from systems that show where the train is?
 

Stephen42

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Even though sites such as RTT pulls from systems that show where the train is?
The level of reporting varies massively around the network. In track circuit areas with berths for each station the signalling system will describe where trains are relative to stations and the arrival/departure times won't be significantly out. The trains won't be removed as an actual report is expected so if a train stops unexpectedly it will be marked as delayed. For short branch lines like St Albans Abbey the whole branch might be a single track circuit or other form of block so the signalling itself doesn't know where the train is precisely. If the train is reporting its position via GPS that will be used for actual times, however the equipment might not work or may drop out so estimates are sometimes all that's available. Other locations the time may be reported by the signaller or another member of rail staff often with a delay between event and report.

My rough understanding is there are central railway operational systems like TRUST which are from the days of mainframes, intended to be accurate historical record with no predictions. There's then the central information system that collate from sources like TRUST, other automated systems, manual input from staff which is used for passenger information and provides predictions. Websites will use the central information system (Darwin) for departure boards, cancellations and delays. At stations, the information system will be from one of the suppliers who won't override the Darwin predictions but might add additional details like brand of train/platform zones or reword things like cancellation/delay reasons. Platform numbers are a bit more complex so ignoring these.

RTT doesn't use Darwin, the license for the open data version of the information system is pretty restrictive including being forced to use its predictions. It will rely on the same sorts of sources as the central one for actual times and can provide a more complex picture than would be acceptable on a platform information screen. Some operators provide information to RTT most notably formation/unit information. Similarly operations have decided to report some information onto Darwin where others haven't. Similarly some operators have put different levels of effort into configuration of central systems to improve train time reporting, predictions and warning of platform changes.

To give an idea of the level of variation: SWR reports formations to RTT, doesn't include train length on Darwin does on CIS. Southeastern include train lengths, toilet locations (and reported status) & expected train busyness on Darwin and CIS, doesn't report formations to RTT. Avanti reports formations to RTT and coaches/toilet locations to Darwin. Thameslink doesn't report formations to RTT and only train length on Darwin.
 

RJ

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I don't trust predicted times too much - too easy to get caught out by a train that has made up time.
 

davews

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There is a definite lag in these PIS screens. It always amuses me when at Martins Heron it says my train is 'at Bracknell' and you see its headlights down the line half way to the station.
 

sh24

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In our neck of the woods, if the train is delayed, and the booked time has come and gone, the PIS just starts showing the next service (which could be two hours away if at all). Leaves you with no information other than RTT and even that’s not great on the line in question.

I've seen this in a few locations. It's such a poor implementation of passenger information, and most often at stations where there is no other information source and poor mobile service.
 

Deepgreen

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SWR (and maybe other TOCs?) has a stupid protocol of showing trains that may have a departure time (from their starting point) over half and hour away as being "Due". I see this at Guildford for the Farnham trains - as soon as they arrive they are displayed as "Due" even though they won't depart for ages. It's just wrong - 'Due' means that departure is supposed to be imminent, not ages away. They should be shown as 'On time' or have the scheduled departure time shown. Yet again, letting individual TOCs decide their own information protocol leads to a mess.
 

louis97

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SWR (and maybe other TOCs?) has a stupid protocol of showing trains that may have a departure time (from their starting point) over half and hour away as being "Due". I see this at Guildford for the Farnham trains - as soon as they arrive they are displayed as "Due" even though they won't depart for ages. It's just wrong - 'Due' means that departure is supposed to be imminent, not ages away. They should be shown as 'On time' or have the scheduled departure time shown. Yet again, letting individual TOCs decide their own information protocol leads to a mess.
When SWR first got the current system, it used to show "Arrived", it got changed I can only assume because in areas with long signal sections that could show maybe up to 5 minutes before the train actually arrives. Not that "Due" is much better!
 

Deepgreen

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When SWR first got the current system, it used to show "Arrived", it got changed I can only assume because in areas with long signal sections that could show maybe up to 5 minutes before the train actually arrives. Not that "Due" is much better!
"Due", when the train is standing there and not scheduled to depart for half an hour is just plain wrong.
 
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