Does York need a direct service to Blackpool North ?

[Manutd1999]

I consider that this would be a beneficial service.

But probably not beneficial enough to justify crossing the ECML and all of the associated delay risk......

IMO Scarborough-York should be left as a simple, half-hourly, shuttle.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Keeping Scarborough trains separate as a York shuttle is the most sensible way to run them, they can be such a delay magnet.

Back to York-Blackpool North.

On a personal level, it should stop at Bramley. Though i understand why it doesnt.

As a service as a whole it seems to cause chaos in the morning as it seems to regularly pick up 10 mins of delay before getting to Bradford and then backs up everything behind it. Delaying the Halifax-Hull to Leeds, which in turn delays the Leeds - Edinburgh 08.08 XC and Leeds Saltburn 08.13 TPE service.

Should run as 4 cars to be honest, though saw it as a 6 car the other day which was unusual.

 

[Blackpool boy]

Its a great service and one we have used many times for the trip to yok for a day trip or weekend. Seems to get very busy at times too. Probably wouldn't do it so much if we had to change at Bradford!?

Rather unsure why anyone would want to curtail the service if im honest.

 

[Clansman]

Other discussions have got me thinking about the rather unreliable York to Blackpool North service, now Im wondering does York really need a direct service ?

Don't get me wrong I think its better to have direct services although when this goes wrong it upsets things upon the West side of Leeds where the majority of its journey is!

Now this is just an idea: perhaps to improve reliability it should start and terminate at Bradford ?

Probably not. But York does need a service to Leeds, which needs a service to Bradford, which needs a service to Halifax, which needs a service to Burnley, which needs a service to Blackburn, which needs a service to Preston, which needs a service to Blackpool. If it's operationally convenient and feasable for them to do so, why not one service where you kill all those birds with one stone and create direct journey opportunities in the meantime.

Blackpool North to York is Northern's version of what XC does. Just one big connection of popular commuter trips that conveniently creates more direct journeys regardless if it was the intention or not.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Should run as 4 cars to be honest, though saw it as a 6 car the other day which was unusual.

That will almost certainly be a unit positioning move because of an earlier cancellation. I've travelled on a 6 car and only 3 were in use and more annoyingly the 3 in use changed halfway through the journey. Front 3 in use from York and all turfed off at Bradford as only front 3 in use from there after reversal.

As for should the York - Blackpool be truncated. The answer is a definitive no. Any delay seems to be in the Leeds area and chopping the service in half would make no difference whatsoever.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Oct 2024 ==

Blackpool North to York is Northern's version of what XC does. Just one big connection of popular commuter trips that conveniently creates more direct journeys regardless if it was the intention or not.

That isn't strictly true. There is quite a decent amount of traffic between the Lancashire towns and Leeds and York.

 

[mike57]

I neither mentioned enthusiasts nor people travelling coast to coast. I specifically referred to the provision of direct services from Halifax and Bradford to Scarborough. I consider that this would be a beneficial service.

Anything that travels from Leeds to Scarborough has to go via York, and is very constained in York, having to cross over all the main lines and can only use platforms 5,3 or 4. Delays then multply and the reliability plumetts. Around 25 years ago Scarborough services used to be Blackpool - Scarborough, but the network was less busy in those days.

York - Blackpool is well used, I have used it to Preston a few time over the past few years, and it seems well loaded throughout the journey, with a mix of longer distance and local travellers.

The real question is would splitting it improve relability, and I suspect the answer is no. Most of Northern's troubles are related to staff shortages, and assuming you keep the same basic hourly timetable you are going to need a similar staffing level.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I think Scarborough is better served by the line to York operating as a shuttle. It can be more frequent and more reliable, offering better onward connections, than a through train could, due to its self-contained nature.

 

[yoyothehobo]

If i was to make a change, and a big IF at that. I would run the BPN service to Leeds and run the current York to BPN at xx.23 as a semi fast to Bradford. (Cant have too many stops as it would trip up the XC service behind it)

The problem is you have to find space for the terminating train at Leeds and i just cant see where you would put it. 0-6 arent going to happen, 8-9 frequently have LNER services in. 10 has the Doncaster. 11 has the Man Vic via Bradford, and the other half of 11 i think sometimes has an Aire Valley service in it. 12 has a full length XC set, 13 either a Wigan Wallgate or Huddersfield and 15-17 are no goes.

You would then be looking at splitting at Bradford which someone mentioned up thread as possible, just not desirable.

 

[Blackpool boy]

If i was to make a change, and a big IF at that. I would run the BPN service to Leeds and run the current York to BPN at xx.23 as a semi fast to Bradford. (Cant have too many stops as it would trip up the XC service behind it)

The problem is you have to find space for the terminating train at Leeds and i just cant see where you would put it. 0-6 arent going to happen, 8-9 frequently have LNER services in. 10 has the Doncaster. 11 has the Man Vic via Bradford, and the other half of 11 i think sometimes has an Aire Valley service in it. 12 has a full length XC set, 13 either a Wigan Wallgate or Huddersfield and 15-17 are no goes.

You would then be looking at splitting at Bradford which someone mentioned up thread as possible, just not desirable.

so overall, probably introducing more conflict at stations along the route for absolutely no gain whatsoever just inconveniencing passengers who already use this service.

Brilliant.

 

[yoyothehobo]

so overall, probably introducing more conflict at stations along the route for absolutely no gain whatsoever just inconveniencing passengers who already use this service.

Brilliant.

Exactly, like most things that come up in speculative ideas.

 

[thejuggler]

30 years ago it did stop at Bramley. The sign stating "this platform for Bradford, Manchester and Blackpool, other platform for Leeds and York" is still viewable on streetview.

 

[yoyothehobo]

30 years ago it did stop at Bramley.

i am pretty sure 8 years ago it did!

 

[Blackpool boy]

Exactly, like most things that come up in speculative ideas.

A lot of the speculative ideas i read on here provide benefits to passengers though and not restrict them

 

[billio]

Rather than cutting this service back I would suggest extending it to Scarborough. Thereby offering folk in Bradford, Halifax, etc. direct trains to the seaside without having to stray into Lancashire.

Rather I think , if it's wet in the west, go to Scarborough, if the weather is from the east go to Blackpool.