Compartment Doors on Cross-Country trains

[BazingaTribe]

Not sure about the class of train but they're the ones that Cross-Country use on the Southampton to Manchester route.

Basically yet again got partly squished between the doors that open on the push of a button and then close automatically. If you don't push the button again it doesn't stop closing even if you're halfway through it. When people are queuing up to get off inevitably the doors will slide closed on their own timetable and trap stuff between them.

Is there any reason for them not to have sensors that detect something or someone between them so they pull back.

Not trying to be funny here but this is a real safety hazard and annoyance. I get it might not be an easy fix to install and program sensors (from experience in maintenance administration it never is, and what looks simple is expensive and time-consuming and takes essential pieces of kit out of service when you most need them) but I'm just rather curious why this obvious hazard isn't ameliorated or why it wasn't caught at the point of design.

 

[trainswitheddy]

I get it might not be an easy fix to install and program sensors (from experience in maintenance administration it never is, and what looks simple is expensive and time-consuming and takes essential pieces of kit out of service when you most need them)

I think, particularly in this case, cost and how much time a solution takes isn't an excuse for the railway, cases like these are of particular concern if you have heard of that awful automatically closing cat litter tray

 

[takno]

There is a sensor, and as such it isn't a safety hazard and isn't going to burn the motor out. Certainly I'd probably have set the sensor to be a bit more sensitive, but there's no way it's going to injure anybody as-is

 

[JD2168]

The Cross Country doors opening & closing can be very annoying at times particularly when having to stand up or waiting to get off at the station. Another awkward part of these is that this area can be very narrow & is awkward to pass standing passengers on busy journeys.

 

[BazingaTribe]

There is a sensor, and as such it isn't a safety hazard and isn't going to burn the motor out. Certainly I'd probably have set the sensor to be a bit more sensitive, but there's no way it's going to injure anybody as-is

Yeah -- I suppose the instinct is to push the button before anything happens. It's just been an annoyance but I'm reassured by this.

The Cross Country doors opening & closing can be very annoying at times particularly when having to stand up or waiting to get off at the station. Another awkward part of these is that this area can be very narrow & is awkward to pass standing passengers on busy journeys

Quite. It's challenging as someone with mobility problems. The XC trains are comfortable when you get sat down, but they can be hell when rammed.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I've been pushed by a Northern 158s door in a similar manner, it's not just ex-Virgin fleets.
I've just started pressing the button even if open if I feel like it has been open too long (its probably just a few faulty sensors given the sensors on 158s are very obvious).

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a sensor, and as such it isn't a safety hazard and isn't going to burn the motor out. Certainly I'd probably have set the sensor to be a bit more sensitive, but there's no way it's going to injure anybody as-is

Not on Voyagers, or not one that's any good. You have to physically resist the door, and it makes very nasty slipping-gear type noises when you do. The rubber edge probably prevents injury though.

 

[signed]

Aren't there a temporary door closer shutoff switch on the ceilling? Where it will make the door go into manual mode for a few minutes.

Most of every trains in France have one, it's extremely convenient in TGVs especially.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aren't there a temporary door closer shutoff switch on the ceilling? Where it will make the door go into manual mode for a few minutes.

Most of every trains in France have one

I've not noticed one.

 

[BazingaTribe]

I'm going back that way tomorrow -- I'll have a look.

 

[The exile]

There is a sensor, and as such it isn't a safety hazard and isn't going to burn the motor out. Certainly I'd probably have set the sensor to be a bit more sensitive, but there's no way it's going to injure anybody as-is

Injure - probably not
Hurt and frighten (particularly a small child) - almost certainly.

 

[takno]

Injure - probably not
Hurt and frighten (particularly a small child) - almost certainly.

The doors have been the way they have for at least 20 years now. Many children have grown up unscathed. Perhaps it's time to put away the pitchforks and admit that the whole thing is essentially a minor annoyance.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not sure about the class of train but they're the ones that Cross-Country use on the Southampton to Manchester route.

Basically yet again got partly squished between the doors that open on the push of a button and then close automatically. If you don't push the button again it doesn't stop closing even if you're halfway through it. When people are queuing up to get off inevitably the doors will slide closed on their own timetable and trap stuff between them.

Is there any reason for them not to have sensors that detect something or someone between them so they pull back.

Not trying to be funny here but this is a real safety hazard and annoyance. I get it might not be an easy fix to install and program sensors (from experience in maintenance administration it never is, and what looks simple is expensive and time-consuming and takes essential pieces of kit out of service when you most need them) but I'm just rather curious why this obvious hazard isn't ameliorated or why it wasn't caught at the point of design.

Just for reference, the class of train is Class 220 and Class 221 (identical interiors), which are known as the Voyagers

 

[800Travel]

There is a sensor, and as such it isn't a safety hazard and isn't going to burn the motor out. Certainly I'd probably have set the sensor to be a bit more sensitive, but there's no way it's going to injure anybody as-is

Not sure there is a sensor. They just repeatedly try to close on pax. You have to press the button to stop it, or physically push it away.

 

[LittleRedTrain]

I can confirm that, if there is a sensor to prevent the doors from closing, it doesn't work very well. Very often I've been stuck in the doorway while trying to get mobility-impaired wife, dog and luggage all safely into the adjacent priority seat.
They've regularly had to argue with a firmly planted size 12 boot (with lots of associated creaking and scraping!) because I've not a hand free to push the button!

My wife also bears the scars of an injury from these doors, though as a result of them opening rather than closing: Her thumb was crushed between the 'handle' in the middle of the door and the adjacent wall, smashing up her nail and causing her to spend a Saturday night in Blackpool A&E It seems nobody had considered this 'trap risk' when designing the doors!

 

[BazingaTribe]

Just for reference, the class of train is Class 220 and Class 221 (identical interiors), which are known as the Voyagers

I thought that was the case but I hedged my bets .

 

[Zerothebrake!]

They close because they act as fire doors.

 

[800Travel]

They close because they act as fire doors.

As probably do the compartment doors on lots of trains, but it isn't a reason for them not to have a sensor. I'm all for safety measures, but really they aught to have had a sensor installed.

 

[Wolfie]

Just for reference, the class of train is Class 220 and Class 221 (identical interiors), which are known as the Voyagers

Are the 222s/Meridios any different in that respect?

 

[Zerothebrake!]

As probably do the compartment doors on lots of trains, but it isn't a reason for them not to have a sensor. I'm all for safety measures, but really they aught to have had a sensor installed.

The XC ones haven't been touched since they were introduced in 2001 bar derating the engines so I doubt that any money will be thrown at them now - especially as the company does not serve London.

 

[PupCuff]

Are the 222s/Meridios any different in that respect?

I don't think they have a sensor either but they do have a floor pad on each side of the door that's easier to get to by pressing with your foot when you're stood in the doorway which will stop the door closing on you.

 

[LowLevel]

Are the 222s/Meridios any different in that respect?

I don't think they have a sensor either but they do have a floor pad on each side of the door that's easier to get to by pressing with your foot when you're stood in the doorway which will stop the door closing on you.

The 222s do have a sensor, albeit the door will still clobber you with reasonable force, it will then reopen itself.

 

[PupCuff]

The 222s do have a sensor, albeit the door will still clobber you with reasonable force, it will then reopen itself.

Ah! Well, a small improvement is still an improvement

 

[Wolfie]

I don't think they have a sensor either but they do have a floor pad on each side of the door that's easier to get to by pressing with your foot when you're stood in the doorway which will stop the door closing on you.

TY

 

[ashley84]

I think on 222s, the two sets of gangway doors between coaches both open with a single button press, whereas with 220 and 221 you have to press the button on each door individually. Though this is going back a while, so that might have changed..

 

[BazingaTribe]

Alas, I haven't been able to check anything as the 13:16 from Oxford has been cancelled and I now have to get the Paddington service and change at Reading. I have a hair appointment in Basingstoke at 15:30 so while I'd wait to get the next Voyager, time is not on my side.

Still, I got a really comfy long distance service so I don't mind. Although now I feel I'm too comfortable and I'm in first class...

 

[Russel]

The doors have been the way they have for at least 20 years now. Many children have grown up unscathed. Perhaps it's time to put away the pitchforks and admit that the whole thing is essentially a minor annoyance.

Agreed, they don't close with enough force to cause injury.

 

[dk1]

The doors have been the way they have for at least 20 years now. Many children have grown up unscathed. Perhaps it's time to put away the pitchforks and admit that the whole thing is essentially a minor annoyance.

It’s just a Voyager thing. I don’t recall anyone ever having long lasting effects from these closing doors or 158s that do a similar thing

 

[Bikeman78]

There is a sensor, and as such it isn't a safety hazard and isn't going to burn the motor out. Certainly I'd probably have set the sensor to be a bit more sensitive, but there's no way it's going to injure anybody as-is

When the Belgian AM96 units were new, I got clouted on the side of the head by a saloon door that closed on me. Since then, if I have to stand near such a door I always block its path with my foot.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2024 ==

I can confirm that, if there is a sensor to prevent the doors from closing, it doesn't work very well. Very often I've been stuck in the doorway while trying to get mobility-impaired wife, dog and luggage all safely into the adjacent priority seat.
They've regularly had to argue with a firmly planted size 12 boot (with lots of associated creaking and scraping!) because I've not a hand free to push the button!

My wife also bears the scars of an injury from these doors, though as a result of them opening rather than closing: Her thumb was crushed between the 'handle' in the middle of the door and the adjacent wall, smashing up her nail and causing her to spend a Saturday night in Blackpool A&E It seems nobody had considered this 'trap risk' when designing the doors!

I've heard a few stories of kids on class 158s putting their hands on the glass and having them dragged into the door pockets when the doors open. When I was a kid, the compartment doors on the CIGs and VEPs would often slam shut when the train braked heavily. I made sure my hands were well clear.

The door incident that I will always remember was at Roosendaal on a 1954 Hondekop unit. The doors slammed shut on a lady's arm. Judging by the wailing afterwards, I guess it hurt a lot!

 

[Bletchleyite]

When the Belgian AM96 units were new, I got clouted on the side of the head by a saloon door that closed on me. Since then, if I have to stand near such a door I always block its path with my foot.

Voyagers are very (very) loosely derived from AM96s, so that both have that problem isn't surprising!