Advance Single on Wrong Train - Any point of appealing?

[Sabrina102]

Hello,

I was fined for travelling from Leeds to York (overall journey was Outwood to Leeds at 10:34, then Leeds to York at 10:57) on an Advance Single at the wrong time.

My original route was to take a Northern train from Outwood to Leeds which was cancelled at 10:34, which would have made me unable to take the TPE train at 10:57 from Leeds to York. An email was sent to me saying that the ticket would still be valid on the earlier or later two trains.

I ended up changing my plans and taking a Northern train from Outwood to Leeds at 14:30, then a TPE train at 14:55 where I intended to buy a ticket if asked on TrainPal, and was promptly inspected by a ticket inspector who subsequently fined me (£69.30 due in 21 days), saying that I had 4 hours from 10:34 to sort this out but I had not. I did not mention my first train from Outwood was cancelled. I presented my Advance Single from Outwood to York to the inspector.

I am asking here if there is any point of appealing as I have seen on these forums that excuses like 'I was in a rush and could not buy a new ticket' won't really be accepted. My only point I can appeal with was that my first train was cancelled so therefore I could not catch the 10:57 train from Leeds so therefore, I changed my plans. Could I appeal for a lesser fine perhaps?

I'm quite bummed because I had heard anecdotally and from over hearing conversations while being on trains, that usually ticket inspectors would allow you to buy tickets on the train. I know now that this is against protocol.

Any words of advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

 

[Bletchleyite]

If what you have is a Penalty Fare, which that amount sounds like, there's no harm in appealing (just stating your booked train was cancelled) because that creates a statute bar on prosecution for this offence.

However I don't think, if you changed your plans like that, you would have much chance of success. As Northern's Advances tend not to go up much in price nearer to travel, the best way to deal with a change of plans in this situation would be to accept the free refund a cancellation gives you and rebook at the time you want to travel.

 

[Titfield]

I do not think you have good grounds to appeal successfully because quite clearly the email which was sent to you stated on which trains your original ticket would still be valid.

As you chose to travel at other times then the ticket would not be valid.

 

[Haywain]

which would have made me unable to take the TPE train at 10:57 from Leeds to Outwood.

Leeds to York, presumably?

An email was sent to me saying that the ticket would still be valid on the earlier or later two trains.

In view of this, none of the following is helpful, as the 14:30 from Outwood is clearly not one of the "later two trains".

I ended up changing my plans and taking a Northern train from Outwood to Leeds at 14:30, then a TPE train at 14:55 ... I did not mention my first train from Outwood was cancelled. I presented my Advance Single from Outwood to York to the inspector.

My only point I can appeal with was that my first train was cancelled so therefore I could not catch the 10:57 train from Leeds so therefore, I changed my plans.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

I was fined for travelling from Leeds to York (overall journey was Outwood to Leeds at 10:34, then Leeds to York at 10:57) on an Advance Single at the wrong time.

My original route was to take a Northern train from Outwood to Leeds which was cancelled at 10:34, which would have made me unable to take the TPE train at 10:57 from Leeds to York. An email was sent to me saying that the ticket would still be valid on the earlier or later two trains.

I ended up changing my plans and taking a Northern train from Outwood to Leeds at 14:30, then a TPE train at 14:55 where I intended to buy a ticket if asked on TrainPal, and was promptly inspected by a ticket inspector who subsequently fined me (£69.30 due in 21 days), saying that I had 4 hours from 10:34 to sort this out but I had not. I did not mention my first train from Outwood was cancelled. I presented my Advance Single from Outwood to York to the inspector.

I am asking here if there is any point of appealing as I have seen on these forums that excuses like 'I was in a rush and could not buy a new ticket' won't really be accepted. My only point I can appeal with was that my first train was cancelled so therefore I could not catch the 10:57 train from Leeds so therefore, I changed my plans. Could I appeal for a lesser fine perhaps?

I'm quite bummed because I had heard anecdotally and from over hearing conversations while being on trains, that usually ticket inspectors would allow you to buy tickets on the train. I know now that this is against protocol.

Any words of advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

whatever you do do not miss the prompt payment discount on the Penalty Fare or it will increase by £50. You can always pay and then appeal (if you won an appeal - which sounds likely from other people's comments) then you would get a refund of the penalty.

 

[Sabrina102]

whatever you do do not miss the prompt payment discount on the Penalty Fare or it will increase by £50. You can always pay and then appeal (if you won an appeal - which sounds likely from other people's comments) then you would get a refund of the penalty.

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but from other people's comments it does not seem likely I would win an appeal?

 

[AlterEgo]

It may help to post a picture of the whole notice here with your details redacted. Your only route to an appeal is in the hope that the notice was improperly completed.

 

[Sabrina102]

I have attached the notice, thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but from other people's comments it does not seem likely I would win an appeal?

That’s correct in my view too. But apart from the time involved in doing an Appeal there is no downside in making one afaik.

 

[Starmill]

I think the correct action was to ask for your original ticket to be cancelled here. The seller of the ticket would have been obliged to refund it without charging you any fees in these circumstances. You could then have chosen a new ticket according to your wishes.

Sadly as you didn't do this, and it's not immediately obvious that the Penalty Fare isn't correct, I'm not sure there is a solution for you.

In future, if your train is cancelled, you're entitled to your money back no questions asked if you surrender your ticket.

 

[furlong]

The delay here was anticipated to be less than an hour so your options were limited.

Either accept the delay (anticipated to be about half-an-hour) or accept a full refund and buy a new ticket for travel in the afternoon.

Regarding the Penalty Fare, please post the bottom half of the notice so people can check that part too.

You could appeal on the grounds that the notices at Leeds station do not comply with the regulations in two respects, that the wording used is wrong and that there aren't sufficient notices "readily visible" to people such as yourself changing trains. (Platform 5 to platform 16 - that's right across the station though I don't recall where there's a poster that you'd see - last time I was there I saw hardly any Penalty Fare posters - there might be a distant one visible - maybe someone could check.)

(4) Standard notices and compulsory ticket area notices must also be displayed at sufficient locations around the station so that at least one notice is readily visible to passengers prior to boarding a train at the station, including passengers changing from one train to another train.

 

[island]

It appears to me that the Penalty Fare was validly issued.

this:

then a TPE train at 14:55 where I intended to buy a ticket if asked on TrainPal

suggests to me that you knew your ticket wasn't valid and your intent was to "pay only when challenged".

I would advise paying the £69.30 promptly before the amount increases.