Expansion of LNER 70-min flex trial area ("Simpler Fares")

[RJ]

I went to a LNER ticket office yesterday to buy a Super Off Peak single from Manors to Purley, requesting exactly that.

Their response was “we’re not doing the Manors thing any more mate”

To which I said that’s the ticket I need. I was eventually issued with it but was puzzled at what that meant and wondered if anyone could shed any light on it?

Not interested in flex tickets, I like to break my journey or vary my route and they cost more than an off peak ticket.

 

[signed]

I was eventually issued with it but was puzzled at what that meant and wondered if anyone could shed any light on it?

Wasn't Manor a trial avoidance point from London for Newcastle before the extension, that might be what they're referring to.

 

[Hadders]

The Manors 'loophole', like Haymarket has been removed but given that @RJ wanted a ticket to Purley it's a mute point anyway.

 

[RJ]

Ok, that makes sense, thank you. That “loophole” only worked during the inital trial of single leg pricing which was concluded months ago so I’m surprised someone would make reference to it during a casual ticket purchase!

Looks like Newcastle to Kings Cross tickets are extremely poor value for money at the moment, the RST website is offering this journey for more than double the price of a Newcastle to Purley journey.

Meanwhile on the only other train of the day it’s actually offering any fares at all, a £140.90 First Class Advance is being touted as the cheapest available fare. I do not believe that this is the cheapest way to get on that train in reality.

Yesterday morning, I turned up at Kings Cross 25 minutes before departure with my Purley to Manors SSS, was at the front of the crowd when the “sold out” 0830 train was called and snagged an unreserved seat in First, paying the upgrade on board.

I am not in the slightest bit confident that placing trust in the online journey planners for these LNER journeys is the best value way to do things at the moment, though happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Ok, that makes sense, thank you. That “loophole” only worked during the inital trial of single leg pricing which was concluded months ago so I’m surprised someone would make reference to it during a casual ticket purchase!

Looks like Newcastle to Kings Cross tickets are extremely poor value for money at the moment, the RST website is offering this journey for more than double the price of a Newcastle to Purley journey.

Meanwhile on the only other train of the day it’s actually offering any fares at all, a £140.90 First Class Advance is being touted as the cheapest available fare. I do not believe that this is the cheapest way to get on that train in reality.

Yesterday morning, I turned up at Kings Cross 25 minutes before departure with my Purley to Manors SSS, was at the front of the crowd when the “sold out” 0830 train was called and snagged an unreserved seat in First, paying the upgrade on board.

I am not in the slightest bit confident that placing trust in the online journey planners for these LNER journeys is the best value way to do things at the moment, though happy to be proven wrong.

Is the RST site not offing Priv rate on the one Advance available with priv?

 

[Haywain]

I’m surprised someone would make reference to it during a casual ticket purchase!

I would suggest that it reflects how rarely tickets from (or to) Manors were requested before it became a loophole, or since the loophole was closed. In my many years of selling tickets on that route I never sold one.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I would suggest that it reflects how rarely tickets from (or to) Manors were requested before it became a loophole, or since the loophole was closed. In my many years of selling tickets on that route I never sold one.

Although quite useful for testing on the Newcastle gatline

 

[RJ]

Is the RST site not offing Priv rate on the one Advance available with priv?

This is what I see at the moment - I wouldn’t expect it to and wouldn’t buy it, having standard facilities!

(Attached screenshot of Rail Staff Travel booking engine, showing First Class ticket prices for a Newcastle to King’s Cross journey today).

 

[Wallsendmag]

This is what I see at the moment - I wouldn’t expect it to and wouldn’t buy it, having standard facilities!

Ok must have sold out, theres a matching STD Advance as well

 

[CyrusWuff]

This is what I see at the moment - I wouldn’t expect it to and wouldn’t buy it, having standard facilities!

Checking the LNER site, those First Class tickets are at public rate so it would be perfectly acceptable to buy one if you wished to do so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An interesting article about fares in Modern Railways this month, which includes a graph of fares during a typical weekday (I only have it on paper, so quoting it isn't feasible unfortunately). Unsurprisingly none of them appear to have been reduced, and almost all are above the former Super Off Peak except when booked well in advance.

 

[wilbers]

Although quite useful for testing on the Newcastle gatline

Do Manors tickets open the Newcastle gateline? Just wondering in advance if I decide to go on the Tyne & Wear metro in the Tynemouth direction again since some trains from this direction actually call at Manors and I worked out last time that I might have been able to get a ticket to Manors and change onto the metro there quicker than going onto it from Newcastle (but start at Newcastle on the return bit, and also not go to Manors in the first place if it wasn't one of the trains from the Carlisle direction that called there).

 

[Haywain]

Do Manors tickets open the Newcastle gateline?

Ticklets from Newcastle to Manors and vice versa will open the Newcastle gateline. A through ticket will do if break of journey has been correctly programmed.

 

[mad_rich]

Do Manors tickets open the Newcastle gateline? Just wondering in advance if I decide to go on the Tyne & Wear metro in the Tynemouth direction again since some trains from this direction actually call at Manors and I worked out last time that I might have been able to get a ticket to Manors and change onto the metro there quicker than going onto it from Newcastle (but start at Newcastle on the return bit, and also not go to Manors in the first place if it wasn't one of the trains from the Carlisle direction that called there).

It won't be any quicker to change between NR<>Metro at Manors vs Central. They're separate stations - probably 'more separate' at Manors than they are at Central.

 

[DanNCL]

I went to a LNER ticket office yesterday to buy a Super Off Peak single from Manors to Purley, requesting exactly that.

Their response was “we’re not doing the Manors thing any more mate”

To which I said that’s the ticket I need. I was eventually issued with it but was puzzled at what that meant and wondered if anyone could shed any light on it?

Not interested in flex tickets, I like to break my journey or vary my route and they cost more than an off peak ticket.

Can’t say I’m the slightest bit surprised unfortunately. Wouldn’t be the first time that ticket office has failed to sell a customer the ticket they asked for without challenging them.

It won't be any quicker to change between NR<>Metro at Manors vs Central. They're separate stations - probably 'more separate' at Manors than they are at Central.

Depends what journey you’re doing. If you’re coming off a train from London or if you’re going to anywhere south of the river or on the Green line then you’re right, but if you’re coming off a train that stops at Manors anyway and want to travel to somewhere like Wallsend, then changing at Manors instead of Central probably will save time.

 

[Haywain]

Wouldn’t be the first time that ticket office has failed to sell a customer the ticket they asked for

The ticket office wasn't specified.

 

[DanNCL]

The ticket office wasn't specified.

Newcastle was implied based on the origin. Apologies if I’ve got it wrong.

 

[Sleepy]

and this is why LNER won't be getting our custom for this year's "Christmas day out" (usually in 1st class) so a different TOC and location will benefit instead.

 

[BRX]

Ok, that makes sense, thank you. That “loophole” only worked during the inital trial of single leg pricing which was concluded months ago so I’m surprised someone would make reference to it during a casual ticket purchase!

It was a loophole for the flex ticket "trial" too (I think), and that was closed relatively recently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was a loophole for the flex ticket "trial" too (I think), and that was closed relatively recently.

It was indeed, yes. There are others but we're probably best not posting them so they don't get closed, at least until it's inevitably rolled out to the whole of LNER's priced flows.

 

[Wallsendmag]

It was indeed, yes. There are others but we're probably best not posting them so they don't get closed, at least until it's inevitably rolled out to the whole of LNER's priced flows.

Don't worry they're all well known

 

[Tetchytyke]

There are others but we're probably best not posting them so they don't get closed, at least until it's inevitably rolled out to the whole of LNER's priced flows.

I'm sure the Brains Trust behind the flex fares are perfectly capable of looking at a map to identify the loopholes!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure the Brains Trust behind the flex fares are perfectly capable of looking at a map to identify the loopholes!

True, though if we end up with one specific one being used heavily (as Manors/Haymarket were due to the Press publicity) they're more likely to close that one. Obviously all will be closed at some point when it rolls out throughout LNER (I think "when" is fair - it's not really a trial and we all know that).

 

[RJ]

It was a loophole for the flex ticket "trial" too (I think), and that was closed relatively recently.

Ah fairs (no pun intended). I haven’t been to Newcastle for a while so hadn’t looked for any value fares until last weekend!

 

[Mainline421]

True, though if we end up with one specific one being used heavily (as Manors/Haymarket were due to the Press publicity) they're more likely to close that one. Obviously all will be closed at some point when it rolls out throughout LNER (I think "when" is fair - it's not really a trial and we all know that).

The fact such "loopholes" exist and need to be "closed" is a stark illustration of how anti-passenger LNER have become. Makes me wonder if a FOI could unearth some 'interesting' internal correspondence about the trial for the press...

I'm sure the Brains Trust behind the flex fares are perfectly capable of looking at a map to identify the loopholes!

Not all of them are obvious from a map, probably not much harm publicising them though if it leads to a slight reduction on the trial flows, it'll make it harder to claim success

 

[Trainbike46]

The fact such "loopholes" exist and need to be "closed" is a stark illustration of how anti-passenger LNER have become. Makes me wonder if a FOI could unearth some 'interesting' internal correspondence about the trial for the press...

try it, everyone can do FOIs

 

[RJ]

I wouldn't bother, more fun to find value fares by querying the database. Anything already known about is going to have a shorter shelf life, if not already closed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Today almost every train between London and Newcastle in both directions is Anytime only if you use LNER's app. The only Advances are splits aside from one or two trains.

Definitely a fare increase trial. That's a fare increase of over 100% for any walk up passenger today at what would have been off peak times.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Definitely a fare increase trial. That's a fare increase of over 100% for any walk up passenger today at what would have been off peak times.

Yep, they're definitely up to something. All that's available is the Anytime at £195. It's the same tomorrow too.

Newcastle are away at Chelsea so southbound tonight and tomorrow morning may well make sense due to demand. But northbound? Hmm.

You can pay that, or you can pay £110 each way less by choosing a ticket from London to [station just outside the trial but near Newcastle].

 

[A S Leib]

Today almost every train between London and Newcastle in both directions is Anytime only if you use LNER's app. The only Advances are splits aside from one or two trains.

Definitely a fare increase trial. That's a fare increase of over 100% for any walk up passenger today at what would have been off peak times.

A lot of regular / knowledgeable travellers would probably split at York or using other workarounds, if not using a split ticketing site, given doing so only rules out Lumo (as the Scotsman's anytime anyway).

Moving into speculative territory, but I wonder how short of a journey LNER would decide should be under the new system. I suspect they'd want to move King's Cross – York / Darlington over; would off-peak fares for e.g. London – Newark or Peterborough – York stay for long?