OneTrackMinded
Member
Thanks for the update. 3 course groups sounds like quite an improvement compared to what’s going on now.
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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates
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Goldfish62
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Whatever the technical reason it can't be right that the last Shepperton service is regularly cancelled. In those heady days before Covid when there was a semblance of interest from TOCs in providing a service last trains used to be protected as much as possible. But that's for another thread.
I've always found that to be a bit of an urban myth in my years on the railway. Sure, if you have a choice of several at risk trains to use a spare/service recovery crew member for, pick the last one - but otherwise you generally can't make someone come off another train to cover a last train if it means changing their hours etc.
I can think of precisely one occasion where Control have gone out of their way to cover a last train by doing something a bit unusual - they rang me as I was getting in my car to go home after my shift and begged me to do it as the booked guard had just been assaulted and they couldn't get any replacement transport for a full weekend train. I said yes.
Otherwise they'll try their best with the resources available but last trains are no easier to cover than anything else.
Either that morning peak extra or it will replace the 458/5 diagram, in that case it’ll run down to Guildford via Epsom also.
OneTrackMinded
Member
This would be my best guess - would make sense since /5 availability is ever decreasing with the refurbishment
Also makes sense with the PTI runs to Hampton court and down the Epsom line to dorking and Guildford
Kite159
Veteran Member
I would imagine at first it will be amended diagrams with the units solely on Hampton Court rather than escaping towards Guildford.
As the leaflet I saw earlier only made mention of Hampton Court.
As the leaflet I saw earlier only made mention of Hampton Court.
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Goldfish62
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Thanks for the update.
Reinstated with a 4 car 450…
I am pretty sure it will just be the peak additional service, 2J92, from that date. Potentially introduced along with another diagram on a current 701 route. More regular 701 work towards Hampton Court would then come later on.
Goldfish62
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I have to disagree. I'm certain it's all part of (to quote Christian Woolmar) "The No-one gives a damn Railway" that has emerged post-Covid. I never experienced pre-determined last train cancellations before then, but now they're endemic, always of course omitting to mention passenger rights for those stranded. Speaks volumes of those in charge and the management culture at TOCs.
Anyway, I degressi.
I think it's not an urban myth but something that controllers and senior managers are not as hot on as they once were.
It's more about shifting spare coverage (if any) accordingly to at least run the last service. Ideally this is done at the rostering stage a few days beforehand.
I hope not, the last thing I need is my morning commute cancelled over faulty trains.
w11_supremecy
Member
Hi guys, I’ve been a long-time reader of railforums.co.uk for many years and this thread for months, and this is my first time ever posting. I’m not going to doxx myself for obvious reasons, but I work for SWR and being based at Waterloo means I get to see many 701s come in and out of the station. I can definitely say I’ve seen an increase in the number of 701s on the platforms at Waterloo. As a matter of fact, today (17th October 2024) I saw two on the higher numbered platforms at the same time, unit number 017 (5Q23) on P23 and unit number 046 (5Q26) on P18. Images attached below.
Also to add, I’ve heard rumblings about the Hampton Court diagram, it’s expected to just be the early peak extra (2J30/31, I can’t remember the correct number lol) and nothing more according to what I heard. And also, there’s still a couple pretty big problems. One is regards to dispatching these trains, particularly at Waterloo as on curved platforms (like on the Windsor side) 3 members of staff are required to dispatch a 701 and the overall staff number of dispatchers are just not there at the moment to even do a partial rollout let alone a full one. The second is not only is there a shortage of drivers and guards who are fully trained at the moment - that number is not big and training is still in the early stages - but more importantly there are many drivers/guards who have been off recently and that’s been affecting things a bit, let alone the fact there’s a general shortage of them anyway. It’s part of the reason why the last Shepperton trains have been getting cancelled and why there’s been more random cancellations than normal.
Hopefully this has been useful enough, and if anything has been repeated sorry, I’ve not exactly kept up to date with this thread for a few weeks now!
(PS - not sure how I can or if I should verify I’m telling the truth, but yeah.)
Also to add, I’ve heard rumblings about the Hampton Court diagram, it’s expected to just be the early peak extra (2J30/31, I can’t remember the correct number lol) and nothing more according to what I heard. And also, there’s still a couple pretty big problems. One is regards to dispatching these trains, particularly at Waterloo as on curved platforms (like on the Windsor side) 3 members of staff are required to dispatch a 701 and the overall staff number of dispatchers are just not there at the moment to even do a partial rollout let alone a full one. The second is not only is there a shortage of drivers and guards who are fully trained at the moment - that number is not big and training is still in the early stages - but more importantly there are many drivers/guards who have been off recently and that’s been affecting things a bit, let alone the fact there’s a general shortage of them anyway. It’s part of the reason why the last Shepperton trains have been getting cancelled and why there’s been more random cancellations than normal.
Hopefully this has been useful enough, and if anything has been repeated sorry, I’ve not exactly kept up to date with this thread for a few weeks now!
(PS - not sure how I can or if I should verify I’m telling the truth, but yeah.)
Attachments
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Poor thing, it must be getting worn out. (It was the first one to enter passenger service, more than nine months ago now)
WesternBiker
Member
Well, thanks for the update - and welcome to the Forum as a member!
norbitonflyer
Established Member
No 701s on the Shepperton this morning, it would seem
OneTrackMinded
Member
Spotted 036 sitting on the line which connects Wimbledon Depot to the mainline idle. Looks like they were turning it around, so possibly it failed
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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Cancelled due to a shortage of drivers, according to Journeycheck, along with several other services so far today.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Are you sure about that?
RTT shows it running the Windsor diagram this morning - currently 2U26 approaching Sunnymeads - and it hasn't been near Wimbledon since it left the depot at 0549 this morning
OneTrackMinded
Member
Ah, typo - meant 037
Nogoohwell
Member
The 701’s seem to suffer from door issues & cab doors were an early problem.
As an observation, on the body side, they appear to be made of many different panels and then sealed with a flexible sealent. Why sealent? Why not weld the panels together? Im no expert in train building, but this construction does suggest that Aventras may have more flex which could be fouling the door alignment?
Look at Desiros, 455’s etc, a very different type of construction has been used.
As an observation, on the body side, they appear to be made of many different panels and then sealed with a flexible sealent. Why sealent? Why not weld the panels together? Im no expert in train building, but this construction does suggest that Aventras may have more flex which could be fouling the door alignment?
Look at Desiros, 455’s etc, a very different type of construction has been used.
Goldfish62
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They use the same construction technique as Electrostars.
When the fleet replacement went out to tender cost was a very high priority.
Not sure on per unit specifics, but the Bombardier train was much cheaper than others and I don't think Siemens and Firstgroup see eye to eye. It might have even been the cheapest but not 100% sure on that point.
I bet the costs have ballooned much higher than if they had of gone with the most expensive bid.
OneTrackMinded
Member
Today's station testing:
5T93 - Clapham Yard - Waterloo - normal.
5T94 - Waterloo - Waterloo - Goes to Hampton Court, then to Surbiton, reverses and goes back to Hampton Court, before returning to Waterloo.
5T95 - Waterloo - Clapham Yard - Goes to Shepperton via Wimbledon, then heads back via Wimbledon to the Yard.
These are taking place in the evening, and finishes off tomorrow at 1AM.
Other 701 Updates:
Today, there is a 20-car set of units on test, consisting of 701025 + 701044. Is testing really going that bad?
Tonight's Shepperton is cancelled as usual - from 21:42 at Waterloo onwards.
5T93 - Clapham Yard - Waterloo - normal.
5T94 - Waterloo - Waterloo - Goes to Hampton Court, then to Surbiton, reverses and goes back to Hampton Court, before returning to Waterloo.
5T95 - Waterloo - Clapham Yard - Goes to Shepperton via Wimbledon, then heads back via Wimbledon to the Yard.
These are taking place in the evening, and finishes off tomorrow at 1AM.
Other 701 Updates:
Today, there is a 20-car set of units on test, consisting of 701025 + 701044. Is testing really going that bad?
Tonight's Shepperton is cancelled as usual - from 21:42 at Waterloo onwards.