Quick win schemes that would be good politically for our new goverment.

[The exile]

No idea about how quick and easy it would be
But would be popular would be an equivalent of the Germany ticket as I often see people praising it on social media, I have no idea regarding the logistics of it and all that stuff

But the announcement and introduction of that would be very popular (as long as the price and validity was acceptable)

And until you couldn’t get on to your two car train because it was full of people going out in jollies.
Also worth noting that various bodies in Germany consider the D-ticket as is (even with large price increase) as being unsustainable.

 

[Meerkat]

I would agree with the suggestion - I think fare evasion should be decriminalised and treated simply as a debt which a TOC can sue for if they wish

Then its unenforceable - the most frequent offenders wont care about debt, add it to the list. And they are the ASB ones who will put off other passengers.
It will just become like parking - the chances of getting caught are low enough that its cheaper to only pay when caught.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Then its unenforceable - the most frequent offenders wont care about debt, add it to the list. And they are the ASB ones who will put off other passengers.
It will just become like parking - the chances of getting caught are low enough that its cheaper to only pay when caught.

Almost nobody treats car park parking that way (on-street parking offences are different legally). Parking is a good example of something rail fare evasion *is* comparable with!

 

[Fermiboson]

I agree largely that the problem for the railways is a reputational one, relating largely to cost and enforcement. But politically, quick wins aren’t done for the sake of it, they’re done to give you political capital to do something else that may or may not be unpopular with the people the quick wins benefit. Here are some quick (uninformed, crayonista) ideas:
- Reintroduce workman’s fares. On commuter routes, offer the commuter fare which is half that of the off-peak return, valid outbound 0430-0600 (or 0615), valid inbound on the same day 1900 onwards. Maybe some problems with capacity on the late evening trains but I can’t imagine many commuter trains are filled right now before 0600, so not that much revenue loss. Widely popular by anecdote among red wall seat voters, particularly working class; helps to shore up these seats against Reform and placate any Brexit-related gripes.
- Unify off peak restrictions across the NSE area (or more ambitiously include the south west as well). The network is a lot easier to sort out here as opposed to the tangle of routes that is the north. One can do something like either board by 0930 or service arrives in London by 1000 whichever is earlier. Increases leisure travel in the south and southwest and attacks remaining Tory seats in Somerset and Dorset.
- Fridays off peak, for all the reasons mentioned above.
- Get rid of LNER’s extortionate schemes. Whenever (anecdotally) someone says “fares are too expensive” LNER is always the top example.
- Ministerial action against unreasonable prosecution (partially already happened). To be honest without a change of management I doubt much will actually improve, it’ll be a game of whack-a-mole; but it feels good and looks good in the headlines, “a government for common people” etc. and everyone will forget about it in 48 hours anyways.
- Reinstate the big departure board at Euston (I refuse to believe the ads there make a significant dent in the books). It won’t solve much and does affect a minority of people, but it can be used to lean into the theme of “greedy tories vs. government of service”, revitalising Labour’s base.

Honestly, though, the point of Labour’s majority was that they did not need popular quick wins; they needed to deliver in 2029. None of these (except potentially the first one) will have any material effect on anything. Labour needs to be unpopular for a while, and implement a plan which they are confident can deliver visible economic growth in 2029; bean counting is not it.
Some potential schemes that could get potential private investment to satisfy the OBR:
- Electrify to Oxford (admittedly, there is a bias here) along with Cowley branch, and some sort of link to Kidlington/Eynsham/Witney; this would solve most traffic problems in Oxfordshire, generally reduce daily annoyance and overcrowding in city centre, and coupled with general positive growth could lock in Labour/Libdem gains in most of Oxfordshire.
- Deliver TPR in full. Again shores up red wall (which was Corbyn’s main loss in 2019); aside from being actually needed, it will soften the Tories’ rhetoric of “leveling up under Boris” and visibly improve journey times across the North.
- New towns and new stations along with it (I believe a discussion on this is in another thread). More homes, lower rent, more investment, etc. and could get private developers to pay for it. The danger of course is an O&Y style default on Canary Wharf.

 

[Bletchleyite]

- Unify off peak restrictions across the NSE area (or more ambitiously include the south west as well). The network is a lot easier to sort out here as opposed to the tangle of routes that is the north. One can do something like either board by 0930 or service arrives in London by 1000 whichever is earlier. Increases leisure travel in the south and southwest and attacks remaining Tory seats in Somerset and Dorset.

Project Oval is basically doing this, though as it's single fare based it also comes with an evening restriction. Unless you want to penalty-price morning peak tickets, you need evening restrictions on any single fare based system.

 

[yorksrob]

And until you couldn’t get on to your two car train because it was full of people going out in jollies.
Also worth noting that various bodies in Germany consider the D-ticket as is (even with large price increase) as being unsustainable.

All countries have their taxpayer-alliance types.

 

[Ghostbus]

Are people actually genuinely impressed by the new Transport Secretary? In a government that has already been characterised by a series of unforced errors, she stands out as having made multiple serious errors of judgement.

Will Louise Haigh be the first minister to be forced out of office?

The transport secretary – who agreed a ‘no strings’ pay deal with train drivers and jeopardised the government’s investment summit – is fast running out of lives, says John Rentoul

www.independent.co.uk

Will Louise Haigh be the first minister to be forced out of office?

Of course, it is most unlikely that she will be the first out. Lone cabinet ministers tend to be felled by scandals that come out of the blue, whereas mere bunglers tend to survive until the next reshuffle.

I think she's already weakened her position enough that I''m deeply sceptical she can really fight hard for retaining the £2 bus fare until those who actually need it can afford the full fare.

I certainly can't take advantage of the de facto £3.50 bus day ticket in London (I'd say most people buying a day ticket anywhere in the UK are only travelling for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, no?). I have plenty of job opportunities in my area, including unsociable shift work. It's the cost that's the issue. Can be as high as £10 a day. Never less than £5. The price of a cheap pint, or whatever young people do to relax on a Friday night these days. Pretty steep eh, Londoners? It's grim. Assuming it even happens and brings cheaper fares, bus franchising or even full control in my area is years away. I could literally up sticks to London quicker.

Little of note for bus in Louise Haigh speech at Labour conference - routeone

Louise Haigh gave away nothing new about the government’s bus policy in England during her address at the Labour party conference.

www.route-one.net

Secretary of State for Transport Louise Haigh revealed nothing new about bus policy in England during her speech at the Labour party conference on 23 September despite the now-pressing need for clarity on the future of the £2 bus fare cap beyond 31 December.

Instead, she underlined the oft-aired policy to deliver greater public control of services, noting that those efforts in both the bus and rail sectors represent not just a reversal of Conservative policy since 2010 but an act of “ripping up the very roots of Thatcherism that have undermined and run down our transport system for decades.”

I'm surprise nobody's even noticed that in the void where she should probably be talking about buses as the most immediate and easily fixed priority, she's apparently fighting hard for car drivers and rail passengers instead, at the same time and on the same front - everyday cost. It's borderline incoherent.

Bin her off. Easy win.

 

[yorksrob]

Are people actually genuinely impressed by the new Transport Secretary? In a government that has already been characterised by a series of unforced errors, she stands out as having made multiple serious errors of judgement.

Will Louise Haigh be the first minister to be forced out of office?

The transport secretary – who agreed a ‘no strings’ pay deal with train drivers and jeopardised the government’s investment summit – is fast running out of lives, says John Rentoul

www.independent.co.uk

I think she's already weakened her position enough that I''m deeply sceptical she can really fight hard for retaining the £2 bus fare until those who actually need it can afford the full fare.

I certainly can't take advantage of the de facto £3.50 bus day ticket in London (I'd say most people buying a day ticket anywhere in the UK are only travelling for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, no?). I have plenty of job opportunities in my area, including unsociable shift work. It's the cost that's the issue. Can be as high as £10 a day. Never less than £5. The price of a cheap pint, or whatever young people do to relax on a Friday night these days. Pretty steep eh, Londoners? It's grim. Assuming it even happens and brings cheaper fares, bus franchising or even full control in my area is years away. I could literally up sticks to London quicker.

Little of note for bus in Louise Haigh speech at Labour conference - routeone

Louise Haigh gave away nothing new about the government’s bus policy in England during her address at the Labour party conference.

www.route-one.net

I'm surprise nobody's even noticed that in the void where she should probably be talking about buses as the most immediate and easily fixed priority, she's apparently fighting hard for car drivers and rail passengers instead, at the same time and on the same front - everyday cost. It's borderline incoherent.

Bin her off. Easy win.

Er, after three years of the railway being driven into the ground, we have a settlement of the industrial action (which around my way has been going on since a year before the pandemic).

It's about time that someone started fighting hard for rail passengers because no b****r had been up until now.

I'm astounded that anyone can consider actually getting train services running a "serious error".

The investment summit is an interesting one raised in the quoted article. A foreign multi-national that treated workers disgracefully throws its toys out of the pram for being reminded of its sins. Suppose we do need this new port facility - (presumably to import more tat and further undermine British industry). There will undoubtedly be another revenue stream going directly from the British economy to the oil sheikh's.

If we really need a new port, where is the City of London ? Shouldn't they be investing so that the income goes back to the British economy ? No, too busy asset stripping British industry to flog amongst their cronies as usual.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Declare that rail staff won't get a single extra penny in pay for this entire parliament without reform to archaic terms and conditions.

@Ghostbus what did you have in mind?

 

[Fermiboson]

Are people actually genuinely impressed by the new Transport Secretary? In a government that has already been characterised by a series of unforced errors, she stands out as having made multiple serious errors of judgement.

Will Louise Haigh be the first minister to be forced out of office?

The transport secretary – who agreed a ‘no strings’ pay deal with train drivers and jeopardised the government’s investment summit – is fast running out of lives, says John Rentoul

www.independent.co.uk

I think she's already weakened her position enough that I''m deeply sceptical she can really fight hard for retaining the £2 bus fare until those who actually need it can afford the full fare.

I certainly can't take advantage of the de facto £3.50 bus day ticket in London (I'd say most people buying a day ticket anywhere in the UK are only travelling for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, no?). I have plenty of job opportunities in my area, including unsociable shift work. It's the cost that's the issue. Can be as high as £10 a day. Never less than £5. The price of a cheap pint, or whatever young people do to relax on a Friday night these days. Pretty steep eh, Londoners? It's grim. Assuming it even happens and brings cheaper fares, bus franchising or even full control in my area is years away. I could literally up sticks to London quicker.

Little of note for bus in Louise Haigh speech at Labour conference - routeone

Louise Haigh gave away nothing new about the government’s bus policy in England during her address at the Labour party conference.

www.route-one.net

I'm surprise nobody's even noticed that in the void where she should probably be talking about buses as the most immediate and easily fixed priority, she's apparently fighting hard for car drivers and rail passengers instead, at the same time and on the same front - everyday cost. It's borderline incoherent.

Bin her off. Easy win.

You can make an argument that she may be politically unwise but at least she's not a bloody bean counter.

To quote Yes Minister (which remains as much a documentary as ever) - a good transport policy benefits everyone ten years down the line but is immediately unpopular with everyone. Good transport ministers don't need to be popular, they need to know what they're doing - and Ms Haigh has a better idea of what the country needs for transport than most other provisional candidates that you could possibly name, and certainly a better idea than her opposite number. She has a drive to direct action and attention to detail. By being so interventionist she is bound to step on an awful lot of toes - and I think there is some valid criticism in saying that she is stuck in opposition mode and doesn't take count of her remaining political capital - but compared to the abject ignorance we have seen emanate from the last DfT I do not see how there is possibly a comparison.

What policies would you propose then, by contrast? Starmer ended up with enough yolk on his face in PMQs when LNER staff announced a strike even if subsequently cancelled - imagine how much worse it would be if RMT/ASLEF escalated under a Labour government.

 

[Meerkat]

Almost nobody treats car park parking that way (on-street parking offences are different legally). Parking is a good example of something rail fare evasion *is* comparable with!

Should have been clearer - I meant on street parking.

 

[Ghostbus]

You can make an argument that she may be politically unwise but at least she's not a bloody bean counter.

Her announcements are suspiciously devoid of any financial details, even broad strokes. How much of her budget did she blow on her first act as a minister? And was it her first act so she could hand over as much money to the unions as possible, and then cut her cloth accordingly for the rest of her brief? Fixing everything.

To quote Yes Minister (which remains as much a documentary as ever) - a good transport policy benefits everyone ten years down the line but is immediately unpopular with everyone.

That's why it's fiction.

She has .... attention to detail.

Her failure to be across the details is what derailed the investment summit.

What policies would you propose then, by contrast?

I'd have committed to the £2 bus fare for another twelve months for a start. I'd then consult on a grown up comprehensive national public bus service, covering how it is to be financed, provided and regulated, with an eye to implementing the first measures by year three of this Parliament.

In opposition, Labour couldn't have been clearer that the most important and most effective public transport solution for increasing social mobility, boosting economic activity, rebalancing opportunity and protecting our environment, is the bus. It's her job to make sure this is evident in her activities. See above reception of her conference speech for what the reality is.

Starmer ended up with enough yolk on his face in PMQs when LNER staff announced a strike even if subsequently cancelled - imagine how much worse it would be if RMT/ASLEF escalated under a Labour government.

That was literally her fault.

 

[yorksrob]

Her announcements are suspiciously devoid of any financial details, even broad strokes. How much of her budget did she blow on her first act as a minister? And was it her first act so she could hand over as much money to the unions as possible, and then cut her cloth accordingly for the rest of her brief? Fixing everything.

That's why it's fiction.

Her failure to be across the details is what derailed the investment summit.

I'd have committed to the £2 bus fare for another twelve months for a start. I'd then consult on a grown up comprehensive national public bus service, covering how it is to be financed, provided and regulated, with an eye to implementing the first measures by year three of this Parliament.

In opposition, Labour couldn't have been clearer that the most important and most effective public transport solution for increasing social mobility, boosting economic activity, rebalancing opportunity and protecting our environment, is the bus. It's her job to make sure this is evident in her activities. See above reception of her conference speech for what the reality is.

That was literally her fault.

Most announcements will be suspiciously devoid of details until the budget - the fact that settling the industrial disputes came before is an achievement in the terms of a new Government.

The fact that LNER drivers announced to strike when the national dispute was settled was down to them being cloth-eared.

We don't even know what the budget will say for buses, yet you're parroting the position that the Tories used as an excuse to drive down railway services for the past three years.

 

[InkyScrolls]

@Ghostbus you mention 'archaic working practices' which you wish to see abolished - may one ask what you're thinking of in particular?