Fare evasion (byelaw 18) court case with GTR

[elmblue18]

Hi, just looking for some urgent advice regarding my ongoing court case.

I was given a penalty fare after purchasing a ticket which was not valid for my entire journey (between Stevenage & Knebworth); extremely stupid but I did this intentionally as I didn’t have the finances to cover the fare. I alighted at WGC but then bought a ticket which would be valid for the gates (Welwyn North to WGC). As a result, I ended up paying £1 less than the correct fare would have been (when considering my 16-25 railcard).

For context, this was in Jul last year after I spent the night in hospital due to a mental health crisis; being in quite a bad headspace and having not slept all night I wasn't thinking very wisely. Also might be worth considering I have diagnoses of ASD & ADHD, which can impact my emotional regulation & impulsivity. I explained my situation to the ticket officer who wasn't particularly empathetic & gave me a penalty fare; I stupidly gave a false name but did provide my correct address in Manchester. I ended up staying with my partner's family in Herts for several months due to the severity of my mental health & completely forgot about the fine or making an appeal. As a result I missed all correspondence sent to Manchester (ie. increasing fines, a SJP & a notice of enforcement for over £500) & had been convicted in my absence.

When I moved back up to Manchester in Jan to resume my full time studies after 2 years away due to mental health issues, I read through all the letters which caused an immense amount of distress. Since then I've had to liaise with CDER several times to keep my account on hold and prevent bailiff enforcement; I've contacted the court & had my case reopened as I hadn't received the correspondence, so my original conviction (railway byelaw 18) is overturned for the time being. The court has asked me to clarify my plea; I've just given a technical not guilty plea to adjourn my court date for a trial simply to buy myself time to seek legal advice & settle an OOC settlement with GTR. The best offer of legal support I've had is £600 inc VAT with Ellis Jones, but on top of the OOC settlement this is a very large amount of money for me, as I'm only 23 and currently still a full time student.

I was hence wondering if it is at all possible or wise to pursue an OOC settlement by contacting GTR myself - given that my case is a one-off, I'm hoping they will be more empathetic towards my situation. If so, what would be the best way of going about this? I have evidence of having been in hospital, GP's notes about my mental health at that time etc but not sure if it's of any use or concern to GTR anyway. If not, does anyone have good experiences of using this solicitor for fare evasion?

 

[John R]

GTR is normally very reasonable in offering OOC settlements, so I would be inclined to write to it urgently explaining the situation, apologising for your actions, promising to always pay the correct fare going forward and asking very nicely if it would consider an OOC settlement. Please do post a draft here and some of the experts here can review it for you. It's important to set out the train of events very clearly and objectively, and make sure there is enough information for them to link it to your case (eg reference numbers).

The prosecutions department email is at the foot of this link, and is gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com

https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/help-and-support/penalty-fares#:~:text=Penalty%20fares%20and%20prosecutions.%20If%20you%20can%E2%80%99t%20produce%20a%20valid

 

[WesternLancer]

I was hence wondering if it is at all possible or wise to pursue an OOC settlement by contacting GTR myself - given that my case is a one-off, I'm hoping they will be more empathetic towards my situation. If so, what would be the best way of going about this? I have evidence of having been in hospital, GP's notes about my mental health at that time etc but not sure if it's of any use or concern to GTR anyway. If not, does anyone have good experiences of using this solicitor for fare evasion?

Yes, in this case I think it will help you to include copies of the medical evidence of the reason for your inability to deal with the Penalty fare at the time, when you write to GTR to ask if they will let you resolve the matter out of court (assuming the case has been re-opened / Statutory Declaration done or whatever?). These ought to class as 'extenuating circumstances' in my view as hospitalisation for these issues does not happen unless things are serious, so it will help show that clearly.

Sadly this won't be as cheap as having paid the £50 Penalty fare at the time but may be cheaper than the sums you are being asked for now and may not need a solicitor to help, so saving those costs.

As suggested, post your draft letter / e-mail (I would send it in both formats) to GTR here so forum members can help you get the wording as effective as possible.

Meanwhile hope your health is better now and good luck with your studies.

On a related thought if your college has access to an advice service / student union advice service for stuff like this you might also be able to get free help / legal advice from them to deal with GTR and this case - might be worth asking about that.

 

[elmblue18]

GTR is normally very reasonable in offering OOC settlements, so I would be inclined to write to it urgently explaining the situation, apologising for your actions, promising to always pay the correct fare going forward and asking very nicely if it would consider an OOC settlement. Please do post a draft here and some of the experts here can review it for you. It's important to set out the train of events very clearly and objectively, and make sure there is enough information for them to link it to your case (eg reference numbers).

The prosecutions department email is at the foot of this link, and is gtr.prosecutions@gtrailway.com

https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/help-and-support/penalty-fares#:~:text=Penalty%20fares%20and%20prosecutions.%20If%20you%20can%E2%80%99t%20produce%20a%20valid

Thank you so much for your help; I've attached a draft copy of the letter for GTR below.

Please let me know if I'm missing anything or have given a bit of a superfluous explanation; I tend to have a hard time condensing my words. I've included the reference number and my personal details at the top, but wondering if they'll need any separate reference numbers from the courts as well?



[Reference no.]
Name:
DOB:
Address:
Contact number:


Dear Sir/Madam,

I am contacting you regarding a penalty fare I received last year, as I would like to discuss my extenuating circumstances & the possibility of reaching an out of court settlement with Govia Thameslink Railway.

I received a penalty fare on the 7th of July 2023 for travelling without a valid ticket between Stevenage & Welwyn Garden City. I had paid for a ticket from Stevenage to Knebworth & then bought a second ticket from Welwyn North to Welwyn Garden City & was issued a penalty fare as the staff member who scanned my ticket observed that the ticket had been bought recently. I hence do not dispute that the fine was issued correctly.

I have had significant ongoing mental health issues due to OCD & autism spectrum disorder, which had led to me losing my job & taking two years out of university, as well as a suicide attempt; I’m still receiving regular psychotherapy as a result. On the 6th/7th of July, I had spent the night in Lister Hospital A&E due to a mental health crisis & a head injury from self-harm. I was experiencing some financial hardship & was unable to afford the correct fare, so I made a foolish & selfish decision to pay for a cheaper ticket after being discharged. I explained my circumstances to the member of staff issuing the fine but panicked & made a further mistake in offering a false name, as I was experiencing significant emotional distress & hadn’t slept, worrying I wouldn’t be able to cover the cost of the fine.

I provided my home address in Manchester but unexpectedly didn’t return until the end of January; I ended up staying with my partner’s family down in Hertfordshire for several months due to my mental health, only returning to this year to resume my studies. Unfortunately, I completely forgot to make an appeal or pay the penalty fare I’d received. As a result, I didn’t receive any correspondence from Govia Thameslink or the court, so only became aware of the prosecution in January. I have spent the last nine months liaising with the courts to overturn my conviction & reopen my case, which they accepted in September. I’ve also been seeking free legal advice, which is why there has been such a significant delay in my contacting you.

I apologise sincerely for this error, as I am now aware of the significant cost that fare evasion causes to the railway & the importance of paying for the correct fare, to both the industry itself and to other passengers. Going forward, I will always ensure to have a valid ticket for my journey. I would really appreciate it if you would consider the possibility of reaching an out of court settlement for this offence, as I acknowledge I must incur a fine given the unpaid penalty fare & the administrative costs of the company’s investigation.

I have attached evidence of attending Lister Hospital & also evidence of my ongoing mental health issues (letters from my GP dated Apr & Dec 2023). Thank you in advance for taking the time to consider my case & please let me know if you need me to provide any further details.

Kind regards,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Oct 2024 ==

Yes, in this case I think it will help you to include copies of the medical evidence of the reason for your inability to deal with the Penalty fare at the time, when you write to GTR to ask if they will let you resolve the matter out of court (assuming the case has been re-opened / Statutory Declaration done or whatever?). These ought to class as 'extenuating circumstances' in my view as hospitalisation for these issues does not happen unless things are serious, so it will help show that clearly.

Sadly this won't be as cheap as having paid the £50 Penalty fare at the time but may be cheaper than the sums you are being asked for now and may not need a solicitor to help, so saving those costs.

As suggested, post your draft letter / e-mail (I would send it in both formats) to GTR here so forum members can help you get the wording as effective as possible.

Meanwhile hope your health is better now and good luck with your studies.

On a related thought if your college has access to an advice service / student union advice service for stuff like this you might also be able to get free help / legal advice from them to deal with GTR and this case - might be worth asking about that.

Thank you so much for your help, I've attached a copy of the draft letter above. If I don't need to include the more sensitive & personal details of my mental health, please let me know as I'm not particularly comfortable sharing them but will if it's going to help give context to my circumstances & aid my case.

 

[John R]

Quick comment - you should remove your name from the bottom of the letter that youve posted.

 

[elmblue18]

Quick comment - you should remove your name from the bottom of the letter that youve posted.

Thanks, completely forgot about that

 

[John R]

I think the letter is reasonable, if a bit long, but I do question how much it will sway their decision. You were travelling three stops, and very deliberately chose to purchase a ticket for Stops 1 to 2, and Stops 2 to 3. There's clearly no question as to what you intended to do from the outset, so it wasn't as if an opportunity suddenly emerged which you took advantage of.

Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained...

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for your help; I've attached a draft copy of the letter for GTR below.

Please let me know if I'm missing anything or have given a bit of a superfluous explanation; I tend to have a hard time condensing my words. I've included the reference number and my personal details at the top, but wondering if they'll need any separate reference numbers from the courts as well?



[Reference no.]
Name:
DOB:
Address:
Contact number:


Dear Sir/Madam,

I am contacting you regarding a penalty fare I received last year, as I would like to discuss my extenuating circumstances & the possibility of reaching an out of court settlement with Govia Thameslink Railway.

I received a penalty fare on the 7th of July 2023 for travelling without a valid ticket between Stevenage & Welwyn Garden City. I had paid for a ticket from Stevenage to Knebworth & then bought a second ticket from Welwyn North to Welwyn Garden City & was issued a penalty fare as the staff member who scanned my ticket observed that the ticket had been bought recently. I hence do not dispute that the fine was issued correctly.

I have had significant ongoing mental health issues due to OCD & autism spectrum disorder, which had led to me losing my job & taking two years out of university, as well as a suicide attempt; I’m still receiving regular psychotherapy as a result. On the 6th/7th of July, I had spent the night in Lister Hospital A&E due to a mental health crisis & a head injury from self-harm. I was experiencing some financial hardship & was unable to afford the correct fare, so I made a foolish & selfish decision to pay for a cheaper ticket after being discharged. I explained my circumstances to the member of staff issuing the fine but panicked & made a further mistake in offering a false name, as I was experiencing significant emotional distress & hadn’t slept, worrying I wouldn’t be able to cover the cost of the fine.

I provided my home address in Manchester but unexpectedly didn’t return until the end of January; I ended up staying with my partner’s family down in Hertfordshire for several months due to my mental health, only returning to this year to resume my studies. Unfortunately, I completely forgot to make an appeal or pay the penalty fare I’d received. As a result, I didn’t receive any correspondence from Govia Thameslink or the court, so only became aware of the prosecution in January. I have spent the last nine months liaising with the courts to overturn my conviction & reopen my case, which they accepted in September. I’ve also been seeking free legal advice, which is why there has been such a significant delay in my contacting you.

I apologise sincerely for this error, as I am now aware of the significant cost that fare evasion causes to the railway & the importance of paying for the correct fare, to both the industry itself and to other passengers. Going forward, I will always ensure to have a valid ticket for my journey. I would really appreciate it if you would consider the possibility of reaching an out of court settlement for this offence, as I acknowledge I must incur a fine given the unpaid penalty fare & the administrative costs of the company’s investigation.

I have attached evidence of attending Lister Hospital & also evidence of my ongoing mental health issues (letters from my GP dated Apr & Dec 2023). Thank you in advance for taking the time to consider my case & please let me know if you need me to provide any further details.

Kind regards,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Oct 2024 ==


Thank you so much for your help, I've attached a copy of the draft letter above. If I don't need to include the more sensitive & personal details of my mental health, please let me know as I'm not particularly comfortable sharing them but will if it's going to help give context to my circumstances & aid my case.

I suggest some slight amends (eg don't want them to think you are discussing a penalty fare per se or they will think - 'this is nothing to do with us it should be an appeal', also do not refer to the Penalty Fare as a 'fine' - but check i have my suggested amends correct in terms of the facts:

I hope below amends are clear to you - bold is new add ins I am suggesting (don't need to be in bold in what you send them) also see strikethrough

You asked about what / how much you need to disclose about your health - i don't think they need evidence of the finer details but I think you should enclose evidence of hospital admission and diagnosis - if the letters include more sensitive stuff not sure how you then don't share that unless you redact / blank out certain sentences on the copy you send them. It's in your interest that they understand the seriousness of your condition at the time, but obviously you should not be expected to share confidential detail that is not entirely pertinent, in my personal view.

I don't think in this case it's too long really as the whole reason you are where you are is related to your health condition which was clearly severe and thus needs explaining to the reader.

Hope this helps and good luck
---------------

[Reference no.]
Name:
DOB:
Address:
Contact number:


Dear Sir/Madam,

I am contacting you regarding a debt associated with a Penalty Fare penalty fare I received in 2023 last year, as I would like to discuss my extenuating circumstances & the possibility of reaching an out of court settlement with Govia Thameslink Railway.

I received a penalty fare on the 7th of July 2023 for travelling without a valid ticket between Stevenage & Welwyn Garden City. I had paid for a ticket from Stevenage to Knebworth & then bought a second ticket from Welwyn North to Welwyn Garden City & was issued a Penalty Fare as the staff member who scanned my ticket observed that the ticket had been bought recently. I hence do not dispute that the Penalty Fare fine was issued correctly.

I have had significant ongoing mental health issues due to OCD & autism spectrum disorder, which had led to me losing my job & taking two years out of university, as well as a suicide attempt; I’m still receiving regular psychotherapy as a result. On the 6th/7th of July, I had spent the night in Lister Hospital A&E due to a mental health crisis & a head injury from self-harm. I was experiencing some financial hardship & was unable to afford the correct fare, so I made a foolish & selfish decision to pay for a cheaper ticket after being discharged. I explained my circumstances to the member of staff issuing the Penalty Fare fine but panicked & made a further mistake in offering a false name, as I was experiencing significant emotional distress & hadn’t slept, worrying I wouldn’t be able to cover the cost of the Penalty Fare. fine.

I provided my home address in Manchester but unexpectedly didn’t return until the end of January; I ended up staying with my partner’s family down in Hertfordshire for several months due to my mental health, so they could care, help and support me, only returning to Manchester this year to resume my studies. Unfortunately, I overlooked completely forgot to making an appeal or to pay the penalty fare I’d received. This was due to the state of my mental health, and the time involved in recuperating from this. As a result of being away from my address in Manchester due to my ill health, I didn’t receive any correspondence from Govia Thameslink or the court, so only became aware of the prosecution in January 2024. I have spent the last nine months liaising with the courts to overturn my conviction & reopen my case, which they Court accepted in September. I’ve also been seeking free legal advice, which is why there has been such a significant delay in my contacting you.

I apologise sincerely for this error, as I am now aware of the significant cost that fare evasion causes to the railway & the importance of paying for the correct fare, to both the industry itself and to other passengers. Going forward, I will always ensure to have a valid ticket for my journey. I would really appreciate it if you would consider the possibility of reaching an out of court settlement for this offence, as I acknowledge I must pay incur a fine given the unpaid penalty fare & the administrative costs of your the company’s investigation.

I have attached evidence of attending Lister Hospital & also evidence of my ongoing mental health issues (letters from my GP dated Apr & Dec 2023). Thank you in advance for taking the time to consider my case & please let me know if you need me to provide any further details.

I would be most grateful if you could look sympathetically on this request to settle the matter without court action given the extenuating circumstances I have explained here.

Kind regards,

 

[elmblue18]

Thank you so much for your help - GTR have offered me an OOC & been really reasonable, which is such a relief

 

[notmyrealname]

That's really good news for you. Are you able to tell us more about what the settlement was please? It always helps when other people come here with a similar problem.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for your help - GTR have offered me an OOC & been really reasonable, which is such a relief

v good news given the situation and added complexities to your case.

When you pay this (which you should now do asap) just make sure you keep a copy of payment receipt / confirmation, and keep copies of all correspondence / paperwork etc that you have to do with all of this - ie court and GTR etc - potentially long term - ie over a year at least - just to be on the safe side in case anything ever arises and you needed to clarify what happened - albeit this is unlikely I suspect.

Good luck for the future with your continued studies etc.

 

[jumble]

Thank you so much for your help - GTR have offered me an OOC & been really reasonable, which is such a relief

Wonderful news
This again goes to prove that some nice TOCs don't really want to ruin peoples lives but just want to teach them an important and proportionate lesson
GWR seem to take the same approach

 

[30907]

Excellent news - as is so often said here, engage with the train operator and you will probably be offered an out of court settlement.

This again goes to prove that some nice TOCs don't really want to ruin peoples lives but just want to teach them an important and proportionate lesson
GWR seem to take the same approach

Are there any TOCs that don't do this now - even the less-nice ones?

 

[AlterEgo]

Excellent news - as is so often said here, engage with the train operator and you will probably be offered an out of court settlement.

Are there any TOCs that don't do this now - even the less-nice ones?

TOCs do generally off this now for minor offences, but TfL are the outlier here, tending to prosecute more often than they give a warning.

 

[island]

TOCs do generally off this now for minor offences, but TfL are the outlier here, tending to prosecute more often than they give a warning.

And also for non-minor offences. I can't readily recall a situation where someone who cooperated fully was not offered a settlement.

 

[John R]

And also for non-minor offences. I can't readily recall a situation where someone who cooperated fully was not offered a settlement.

There was certainly one GTR case where they refused to offer a settlement. The poster eventually engaged legal advice, at which point GTR made an offer. We saw nothing untoward that would have justified the hardline approach, but then again, we sometimes don’t get the full story.