Do airlines ever run relief flights?

[renegademaster]

The coach industry often will run a duplicate service a few minutes behind if the original serivce got sold out, a long time ago trains did an alike thing too.

Do airlines ever do this? If the 1750 LGW to Berlin flight is full would you ever find an 1800 suddenly appear?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Yes, but only as a preplanned operation, they won't just rustle up a spare aircraft on the day. It most commonly happens during sporting fixtures or after some major disruption with people stuck at one end.

You need air traffic control and airport "slots" - and these can go for £millions at places like Heathrow, so there's virtually no spare capacity. This essentially restricts ad-hoc flights to regional/smaller airports or at unattractive times of the day that aren't congested.

Some of the smaller propeller planes on the Scottish islands might do an extra run etc if demand warrants it, but these are almost like taxis/buses anyway.

 

[edwin_m]

The BA "Shuttle" in the 1980s used to claim there would always be a seat, even if they had to bring in a spare aircraft and crew for one extra passenger. I believe if you were that person you were offered some big incentives to wait for the next flight...

 

[Bletchleyite]

The BA "Shuttle" in the 1980s used to claim there would always be a seat, even if they had to bring in a spare aircraft and crew for one extra passenger. I believe if you were that person you were offered some big incentives to wait for the next flight...

On one occasion I believe the only available aircraft was Concorde, so it was duly wheeled out...

 

[edwin_m]

On one occasion I believe the only available aircraft was Concorde, so it was duly wheeled out...

Yes I've heard that too.

BA modelled their operation on the Eastern one in the US, which had the same promise.

 

[DanNCL]

The BA "Shuttle" in the 1980s used to claim there would always be a seat, even if they had to bring in a spare aircraft and crew for one extra passenger. I believe if you were that person you were offered some big incentives to wait for the next flight...

On one occasion I believe the only available aircraft was Concorde, so it was duly wheeled out...

If it was just one person they’d do whatever they needed to in order to persuade them to wait but if they still couldn’t persuade them then the extra aircraft would be found. There were multiple instances of Concorde being sent on a domestic flight for just a handful of people, 747s weren’t unheard of for it too.

Would never be possible now, both because of the lack of capacity at Heathrow and because of the massively enhanced security now compared with back then.

 

[Mojo]

l’ve heard of in the last few months BA swapping a narrowbody for a widebody aircraft to accommodate extra customers for some event, cannot remember if it was sports or something else.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

On one occasion I believe the only available aircraft was Concorde, so it was duly wheeled out...

The use of Concorde as the official Shuttle back up aircraft was deliberately planned as a marketing gimmick - and a very successful one; Concorde appeared fairly regularly on the Shuttles for several years. Not daily, of course, but every once in a while. On occasion it would be on the scheduled runs rather than the additionals.

There were several staff working in offices which overlooked the Shuttle gates who would keep a close eye on what was being parked at them, and as soon as a Concorde was seen heading towards one of the relevant stands, they would all suddenly dash out of the office for "urgent meetings"...

 

[Harpo]

Concorde was a great advertisment. It* had an uncanny knack of just happening to appear in the sky over major televised events, particularly big sporting occasions.


* Interesting how it didn’t seem to have a plural either.

 

[Butts]

If it was just one person they’d do whatever they needed to in order to persuade them to wait but if they still couldn’t persuade them then the extra aircraft would be found. There were multiple instances of Concorde being sent on a domestic flight for just a handful of people, 747s weren’t unheard of for it too.

Would never be possible now, both because of the lack of capacity at Heathrow and because of the massively enhanced security now compared with back then.

Ah The Super Shuttle when you could buy a Ticket in a BA Shop, there was minimal security, proper catering and you could light up onboard.

Where did it all go wrong ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2024 ==

Concorde was a great advertisment. It* had an uncanny knack of just happening to appear in the sky over major televised events, particularly big sporting occasions.


* Interesting how it didn’t seem to have a plural either.

BA001 when it meant something as French and British engineering led the world in Aviation.

Now we have gone back to "steam planes"

 

[TravelDream]

The coach industry often will run a duplicate service a few minutes behind if the original serivce got sold out, a long time ago trains did an alike thing too.

Do airlines ever do this? If the 1750 LGW to Berlin flight is full would you ever find an 1800 suddenly appear?

Generally no.
Most importantly, if I sell 220 tickets, am I really going to fly two 189 seat planes to the destination? It doesn't make sense.
There are many more reasons why it doesn't happen.
Many airports are slot limited. You can't just run extra flights to, say, Heathrow unless you have a slot available for it to land and take-off.
Most airlines are also incredibly tight on crew nowadays. Crew planning is a massive operation and it isn't always easy to muster up additional crew to fly at short notice.
Aircraft availability is also very important. There generally aren't many planes sat around - especially in the summer season.
Though most airlines can charter aircraft at pretty short notice. Even Ryanair does private charter work.
For most airlines, upguageing is much more likely. A321 instead of A319 for BA or 737-8Max for Ryanair instead of the class 800.

That's not to say it isn't scheduled to happen sometimes too.
Qatar Airways ran for many years to flights leaving Doha in the early hours and arriving in Heathrow around 6am. An A380 and 77W. For a couple of years both flights left Doha at exactly the same time. The 77W arrived in Heathrow 10/15 minutes earlier as it has a slightly faster cruise, but I would always personally choose the A380 as it is much more comfortable in the economy cabin.
The BA Shuttle has also been mentioned.
You also often see airlines offer additional flights during sporting events/ major events.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Qatar Airways ran for many years to flights leaving Doha in the early hours and arriving in Heathrow around 6am. An A380 and 77W. For a couple of years both flights left Doha at exactly the same time. The 77W arrived in Heathrow 10/15 minutes earlier as it has a slightly faster cruise, but I would always personally choose the A380 as it is much more comfortable in the economy cabin.

There are quite a few long haul routes where there is more than one departure per day at similar times by the same airline, though the timings tend to be an hour or two different presumably to provide for different connections. However it's not unusual where there's the demand for more than one aircraft worth of people.

 

[TravelDream]

There are quite a few long haul routes where there is more than one departure per day at similar times by the same airline, though the timings tend to be an hour or two different presumably to provide for different connections. However it's not unusual where there's the demand for more than one aircraft worth of people.

Of course that's true of any big city pair.
Not always just because of demand, but because of time differences too. Back when HK had much more demand (Cathay is only slightly down to the mid 2010s, but then BA ran three flights a day and Virgin ran one - now BA will go down to one a day for winter and Virgin don't fly there any more), there were about 5 or 6 flights from HKG to Heathrow between 1130pm and 1am.

For Qatar, the really unusual thing was tt left at exactly the same time.
I caught the flight multiple times (lived in Doha for sometime and commuted fairly frequently to the UK**). Every single night you'd see someone at the gate during final call who was on the other flight and had a 15 minute run to the opposite side of the airport to try and catch their flight.

Just did a quick check, and they still do it a few nights a week. It departs at 1.10am from Doha, but is now an A350 and 77W which arrive at the same time rather than the A380.

**This is a tangent, but in case anyone thinks it's glamorous, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Get home from work at 6pm. Then head to the airport around 10.30pm. Have a 7 hour flight in economy departing at 1am and arriving in Heathrow at 6am (note time difference). Then head into central London to be at the office by 9am. Do a full day there and then head out for a dinner meeting. Back in the office the next morning. Then head to the airport for 7/8pm flight back to Doha. Land in Doha at 4/5am. Quick wash and nap. Then back to the office there for a 9.30 meeting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Get home from work at 6pm. Then head to the airport around 10.30pm. Have a 7 hour flight in economy departing at 1am and arriving in Heathrow at 6am (note time difference). Then head into central London to be at the office by 9am. Do a full day there and then head out for a dinner meeting. Back in the office the next morning. Then head to the airport for 7/8pm flight back to Doha. Land in Doha at 4/5am. Quick wash and nap. Then back to the office there for a 9.30 meeting.

Companies with any respect at all for their staff don't make them do that. I've travelled on business extensively (though not recently) and we were always able to work out something more sensible. If one is expected to work on arrival from an overnight flight business class is really a necessity, but personally I'd rather economy and a day off to recover. A company that really cares about the wellbeing (and performance!) of their employees offers them a choice of both for this sort of context (or where available, my first choice would be day flights, though I know not every route offers that in both directions).

 

[route101]

Companies with any respect at all for their staff don't make them do that. I've travelled on business extensively (though not recently) and we were always able to work out something more sensible. If one is expected to work on arrival from an overnight flight business class is really a necessity, but personally I'd rather economy and a day off to recover. A company that really cares about the wellbeing (and performance!) of their employees offers them a choice of both for this sort of context (or where available, my first choice would be day flights, though I know not every route offers that in both directions).

Yes, day off would be preferable but that's an employee not working for a day!

Ryanair often out on extra flights around six nations.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes, day off would be preferable but that's an employee not working for a day!

Probably better for the company (and certainly for the employee) if they aren't sitting around half asleep making mistakes for a couple of days.

 

[TravelDream]

Companies with any respect at all for their staff don't make them do that.

To be fair, I did get a day off after returning, but used to add it to the TOIL total to make better use of paid time off. Plus going to work straight after meant you got more than one day off as I would go in late and leave early.

Other than the traveling it was fine. But, yeah, it was a bit of a killer for me. Plus Doha is just an incredibly dull place unless you want to feel like you live in a furnace all summer and love nothing other than going to shopping malls.

Ryanair often out on extra flights around six nations.

They tend to be very profitable (the fares will start in three figures from when flights are released and onboard sales tend to be good) so airlines always try to squeeze them in if they can.

 

[joncombe]

Ok it's a tiny airline but I had this happen on Isles of Scilly skybus between St Mary's and lands end where they ran two Islanders a few minutes apart due to the numbers travelling. Probably a good 10 years ago now so I don't know if that still happens.

 

[CC 72100]

Ah The Super Shuttle when you could buy a Ticket in a BA Shop, there was minimal security, proper catering and you could light up onboard.

Where did it all go wrong ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2024 ==



BA001 when it meant something as French and British engineering led the world in Aviation.

Now we have gone back to "steam planes"

I mean the last bit of the first paragraph is practically trolling.

Flying may be less glamorous now, but also many more people can fly with it not being an upper middle class or even higher activity (not that class really exists anymore). The democratisation of flying is very much a good thing, even if some of the frills have had to be lost for that to happen.

On the flip side to the OP, I'm pretty sure my flight this evening was 'downsized', although I received the email about it several weeks back saying that my aircraft had changed. It was an Easyjet A319 tonight, so presumably at some point (and when I bought my ticket) was something bigger. The fact I paid £19 maybe gave an insight into how sales were going.

On a sidenote, I find the idea of plane scheduling fascinating, and making that call to change plane - even at the planning stage several weeks out - really interesting.

 

[nlogax]

Ah The Super Shuttle when you could buy a Ticket in a BA Shop, there was minimal security, proper catering and you could light up onboard.

Where did it all go wrong ?

Maybe it's just me but I'm struggling to find anything remotely nostalgic about being subjected to fag smoke while sitting in a hermetically sealed tin can at 37,000ft.

 

[edwin_m]

Maybe it's just me but I'm struggling to find anything remotely nostalgic about being subjected to fag smoke while sitting in a hermetically sealed tin can at 37,000ft.

The nicotine stains apparently made it easier for the techs to find leaks in the rear bulkhead.

 

[TravelDream]

On a sidenote, I find the idea of plane scheduling fascinating, and making that call to change plane - even at the planning stage several weeks out - really interesting.

Airlines like easyjet have large revenue management teams that use a hell of a lot of data, prior experience and expertise to try to extract the most revenue possible from each flight/ aircraft/ crew member (choose your metric).
There's often a fair amount of chopping and changing between A319/A320/A321s at easyjet just as there is at BA.

 

[Butts]

Maybe it's just me but I'm struggling to find anything remotely nostalgic about being subjected to fag smoke while sitting in a hermetically sealed tin can at 37,000ft.

Perhaps your comment is influenced by the fact you are a non-smoker ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2024 ==

The nicotine stains apparently made it easier for the techs to find leaks in the rear bulkhead.

Bring it back immediately !!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2024 ==

Airlines like easyjet have large revenue management teams that use a hell of a lot of data, prior experience and expertise to try to extract the most revenue possible from each flight/ aircraft/ crew member (choose your metric).
There's often a fair amount of chopping and changing between A319/A320/A321s at easyjet just as there is at BA.

If you haven't got your wits about you it is easy to "lose" an Exit Seat when this happens.

 

[mpthomson]

There are quite a few long haul routes where there is more than one departure per day at similar times by the same airline, though the timings tend to be an hour or two different presumably to provide for different connections. However it's not unusual where there's the demand for more than one aircraft worth of people.

LHR-SIN is another example, using A380 and a 777 although both have the same departure time.

 

[nlogax]

Perhaps your comment is influenced by the fact you are a non-smoker ?

It is is, and I'll never understand an obsession about smoking especially in a confined space when others would have been unable to avoid it. Thankfully those grim days are long behind us and this is as off-topic as I'll go here.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Hello @renegademaster To add to the good points by @Tazi Hupefi in post #2:
Yes, but only as a preplanned operation ... You need air traffic control and airport "slots".

Airspace utilisation - think of it as a three dimensional road network - requires a lot of scenario-based pre-planning, starting up to a year forward and continually refined until the day before. The sky is divided into many sectors - vertical and horizontal - some are restricted solely for military use.
Airport slots are in high demand by the ANSPs (e.g.airlines). Slots are costly and therefore "having one in reserve, just in case" is financially impractical.
So the concept of an unplanned, last minute, relief flight is sadly unviable.

 

[JamesT]

If it's takeoff slots that are the constraint, perhaps the airlines could take a leaf from the military in WW2? Tow gliders with the excess capacity behind the main flight?

 

[Western Lord]

If it's takeoff slots that are the constraint, perhaps the airlines could take a leaf from the military in WW2? Tow gliders with the excess capacity behind the main flight?

With one of the passengers quickly trained up to do the landing (doesn't matter how good it was , no need to take off again).

 

[davyp]

As I write, Sat. 19/10/24 at 10.40 BST, there are 2 Saudia Boeing 787-9 flights from Jeddah to Manchester arriving approx. 30 minutes apart - normally just one. No idea how far in advance this was planned.

 

[Mojo]

As I write, Sat. 19/10/24 at 10.40 BST, there are 2 Saudia Boeing 787-9 flights from Jeddah to Manchester arriving approx. 30 minutes apart - normally just one. No idea how far in advance this was planned.

That’s their normal timetable, it seems they have a flight that runs 6 days a week (not Wednesdays) SV123, and SV129 which is Saturdays only.