TPE train at Sheffield

[Falcon1200]

Not sure why the platform staff would concern themselves about delays etc, we're ultimately the ones that clear the signal and get sent for retraining when it goes wrong

And if Control authorises an early departure, which doesn't work out as expected and causes delay, the Controller takes the blame! (Been there, done that...)

 

[D1537]

Grindleford to Bamford includes no points. Looks as though it may be passed by the last Northern stopper in Heeley loop https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G32791/2024-10-14/detailed#allox_id=0

Indeed, though it was quoted 10mph max, 5mph over points by a poster above. Is this not the case?

Edit: Elsewhere I have seen it quoted as 20mph max, 5mph over pointwork, which fits with this schedule.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Indeed, though it was quoted 10mph max, 5mph over points by a poster above. Is this not the case?

Edit: Elsewhere I have seen it quoted as 20mph max, 5mph over pointwork, which fits with this schedule.

The full rule is as stated (10/5), "unless otherwise authorised by a rolling stock technician".

 

[D1537]

The full rule is as stated (10/5), "unless otherwise authorised by a rolling stock technician".

Thanks, that makes sense. Does the fact that RTT is coming up with "Maximum speed 27mph" suggest that is what has been authorised, or is that data spurious?

 

[syorksdeano]

Not sure why but I'm expecting something to go wrong tonight.

Don't know why I'm thinking that, but it's just a feeling

 

[InkyScrolls]

Thanks, that makes sense. Does the fact that RTT is coming up with "Maximum speed 27mph" suggest that is what has been authorised, or is that data spurious?

I'm not sure! That seems a random speed for an RST to pick so it may be due to constraints within the system.

 

[Boothby97]

It has been there since Saturday the 5th, was removed from the 1019 Liverpool Lime Street to Cleethorpes.

 

[Tomnick]

Not sure why the platform staff would concern themselves about delays etc, we're ultimately the ones that clear the signal and get sent for retraining when it goes wrong .

From what they told me, someone successfully disputed the delay on the basis that the signaller (or ARS?) only pulled off for it early because the platform staff had belled it out early, and thus it ended up being attributed to them. Bit like the fatality on the southern MML a few years ago, where the delay to the first stranded train was attributed 'XC', but then the second stranded train was an early-running freight that had been run on a sensible margin (but obviously couldn't get through) so the delay to everything behind that got O-coded. Blows my mind sometimes.

Grindleford to Bamford includes no points. Looks as though it may be passed by the last Northern stopper in Heeley loop https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G32791/2024-10-14/detailed#allox_id=0

The stopper leaves Sheffield three minutes in front of the skated move?

 

[Crossover]

Out of interest, is 102 self recovering or is it a drag?

Thanks, that makes sense. Does the fact that RTT is coming up with "Maximum speed 27mph" suggest that is what has been authorised, or is that data spurious?

Someone will know better than me, but I have a nagging feeling that there aren't an infinite number of speed profiles in the back end system (not RTT) and that the nearest one is picked and tweaked (or possibly, picked and it just runs as close to it as possible)

 

[D1537]

Out of interest, is 102 self recovering or is it a drag?

RTT claims "Pathed as diesel locomotive, trailing load 600 tons" (which sounds like another restriction on train descriptions in the back end as well, since a 185 weighs less than 200. I've seen new EMU delivery drags with the same description).

 

[Crossover]

RTT claims "Pathed as diesel locomotive, trailing load 600 tons" (which sounds like another restriction on train descriptions in the back end as well, since a 185 weighs less than 200. I've seen new EMU delivery drags with the same description).

Again, I think it is a generic profile and I wouldn't take anything concrete from it as to the actual operation.

 

[Twingo37175]

The stopper leaves Sheffield three minutes in front of the skated move?

not now, cancelled through crew shortage.

 

[Killingworth]

not now, cancelled through crew shortage.

Bus replacement, well over 3 hours, arriving Piccadilly 3.09. The skated train is timed to get to Ardwick at 2.44!

 

[D1537]

Bus replacement, well over 3 hours, arriving Piccadilly 3.09. The skated train is timed to get to Ardwick at 2.44!

According to NT there are 3 16-seater minibuses replacing the train. Why can't at least one not skip the stops and go A57/A560 to Stockport?

 

[Killingworth]

According to NT there are 3 16-seater minibuses replacing the train. Why can't at least one not skip the stops and go A57/A560 to Stockport?

One will need to go to Edale but I'd be interested to know how many use the buses and for how far. On Saturday I was in a train amidst a group of 20-30, but I doubt that many would be travelling at that time of night, not least because that train is not one you want to take in case it is cancelled! Taxis are expensive but quicker than any bus. (But you'd only get a family pick up beyond Dore at that time.) Subject for another thread.

 

[tram21]

According to NT there are 3 16-seater minibuses replacing the train. Why can't at least one not skip the stops and go A57/A560 to Stockport?

I'd imagine they probably/ hopefully will if it's established everyone on one minibus is only going to Manchester. RRBs are a bit of a free-for-all, so this could potentially happen

 

[Dr Hoo]

According to NT there are 3 16-seater minibuses replacing the train. Why can't at least one not skip the stops and go A57/A560 to Stockport?

The A57 Snake Pass is advertised as closed at the moment (couple of weeks for repairs, again).

 

[D1537]

The A57 Snake Pass is advertised as closed at the moment (couple of weeks for repairs, again).

Yes, I'd forgotten that. But even going via Woodhead would be half the time that is given.

Meanwhile, in other news, according to Traksy and OpenTT, 5W02 has left Sheffield half an hour early.

 

[Crossover]

So it made it and ran early throughout, so maybe there was some dispensation on the speed it could run at (rather than the default position of 10/5)

 

[Killingworth]

So it made it and ran early throughout, so maybe there was some dispensation on the speed it could run at (rather than the default position of 10/5)

The cancelled Northern train gave it a 32 minute start out of Sheffield and it arrived at Ardwick 14 minutes up, so actually it lost time overall on plan. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:16733/2024-10-14/detailed

But with the need for extreme caution over all junctions surely it's impossible to stipulate an exact speed to cover every single one of them and long straight stretches. The extra 30 minutes gave a good cushion for that caution.

 

[Crossover]

The cancelled Northern train gave it a 32 minute start out of Sheffield and it arrived at Ardwick 14 minutes up, so actually it lost time overall on plan. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:16733/2024-10-14/detailed

But with the need for extreme caution over all junctions surely it's impossible to stipulate an exact speed to cover every single one of them and long straight stretches. The extra 30 minutes gave a good cushion for that caution.

Indeed, but a poster yesterday suggested the schedule (which it didn't lose that much time on) gave an average speed of around 18mph, so it definitely wasn't limited to the 10/5 rulebook(?) stipulation and had some specific engineering rule for a different limit for this move, was my point

 

[Killingworth]

Indeed, but a poster yesterday suggested the schedule (which it didn't lose that much time on) gave an average speed of around 18mph, so it definitely wasn't limited to the 10/5 rulebook(?) stipulation and had some specific engineering rule for a different limit for this move, was my point

Seems like commonsense driving was used. The old way with rules being for the guidance of wise men and....... - but heaven help you if you got it wrong.

The average speed was rather quicker than that of Northern's bus substitute service!

 

[Crossover]

Just to follow on from my previous queries, I have done some research and have been advised by a reliable source that the move was authorised at 20mph on plain line and 5mph over points - the base timing load was a 60mph freight which was manually adjusted to account for the reduced speed.

The 27mph timing load I am advised is a bug in RTT which harks back (something I vaguely recall being mentioned previously on the forum) to the speeds in the internal system being in metres per second, not miles per hour, and RTT converting it. The underlying bug has been fixed but the conversion is still being done on RTT as I understand it.

Seems like commonsense driving was used. The old way with rules being for the guidance of wise men and....... - but heaven help you if you got it wrong.

I doubt that common sense came in to it from the people on the ground - they will have done what they were advised by the engineers etc!

 

[En]

Imagine if it was all one company and could have gone to Donny for repair, or Leeds...

could it ? what makes you think that getting parts, tools , any specialist Lifting equipment etc to a 'foreign' location would be any easier ?

 

[185]

could it ? what makes you think that getting parts, tools , any specialist Lifting equipment etc to a 'foreign' location would be any easier ?

As new trains are mostly modular, especially Siemens products, most parts would probably fit in a ford transit.

 

[sbrignall72]

It was obviously a quick repair as I saw it on Wednesday on route learning duties between Leeds and York via Castleford.