Quick win schemes that would be good politically for our new goverment.

[JonathanH]

The only thing that can meet all three is a fares reform or offer of some sort.

Fares reform could easily backfire if many people see worse conditions and higher prices (eg LNER). There is no evidence that the kind of offers the railway has provided in recent years have led to a positive vibe for the government.

 

[HSTEd]

How long would it take CRRC, Stadler and so on to deliver a few thousand rail vehicles?
I doubt the capital expenditure is available from the Treasury, but you would probably get a decent rate of return from a major fleet replacement that could slash overall training burden and allow a lot of ROSCO stock to go out of service.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think it's essential to hit all three criteria: although 1 and 2 are essential for it to be a quick win, there are ways around 3 - but the risk of not hitting it (or something like it) is that there will be complaints of the 'why are they getting something when we're not?' type. Against that, there's the risk that failing to do anything will lead to negative press: the current out of use fleets are an example - we can assume that the Daily Mail will have a field day when they decide to run stories on those.

So my suggestion would be to work out what is inevitably (or near inevitably) going to happen when GBR finally comes in - and then see what of that can be brought forward to (positively) happen now. On that basis, I'd suggest

- unused fleets: I'll accept that this is something I haven't been following so I may have got the wrong end of the stick here. But if there are fleets of modern trains sitting unused with TOCs or ROSCOs then get them lined up for use, ideally as fleets so that crew can work them consistently. If the trains are with the ROSCOs then someone will have to rent them - but if GBR will be the sole operator in future then the government is in a good position to insist on the ROSCOs offering a good price - there's also good politics in the new government being firm with greedy private ROSCOs. And crews will have to be trained: again, it might be good politics to show that if there will only be one operator in future, then the unions will not be in a position to play employers off against each other for double crewing (driver and guard) etc - it's perhaps worth noting that RMT is not affiliated to the Labour Party, although ASLEF and TSSA are.

- single TOC fares: as I understand it, in effect all the farebox from all TOCs (open access operators excepted) now goes to the DfT. So there's no benefit to TOC in gathering a bigger chunk of the fare-take on a given route. So let's abolish fares divided by TOC (e.g. 'Northern Rail only'). Commuters from Liverpool to Manchester (and similar routes) won't have to worry about whether they're on the right colour of train - more choice if train for very little more money. But let's keep Advances: to also abolish cheap fixed-train journeys would not go down well (Daily Mail: LABOUR PUT UP THE COST OF MY COMMUTE BY ALMOST 200%*) and (for sensible lengths of journeys) Advances can play a real role in moving traffic on to more lightly used services.


*Per BR Fares LPY-MCO (and vice versa - https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=MCO&dest=LPY), comparing cheapest Northern Advance x 2 against off-peak return - my actual commute (using the off-peak fare rather than the Advances)

I think that when you're a struggling government (and I think this one's a bit at the moment) you need something eyecatching across the country, hence my three criteria.

That said, I agree with your first point - need to allocate rolling stock more effectively to meet requirements.

With your second point, the whole system of revenue going back to Gmt needs to change and the railway needs to be able to generate revenue and reinvest it in the railway. I'm sure I read that the current Government is planning to make this change at some stage in the near future.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2024 ==

Fares reform could easily backfire if many people see worse conditions and higher prices (eg LNER). There is no evidence that the kind of offers the railway has provided in recent years have led to a positive vibe for the government.

Quick win. Off peak Fridays - won't lose too much revenue, might make some and uses capacity abandoned by four day week commuters.

Ticks all boxes - generates good will in the electorate - win win.

Admittedly, off-peak Fridays would de-rail LNER's price gouge, but I could live with that.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Harmonise door opening across the industry - outcome reduced dwell times improved performance.

Get some discipline back into operating by beefing up supervision hey lets call them regulators to manage perturbations

Dont tell us your putting the passenger first actually do it

 

[lachlan]

I think that when you're a struggling government (and I think this one's a bit at the moment) you need something eyecatching across the country, hence my three criteria.

That said, I agree with your first point - need to allocate rolling stock more effectively to meet requirements.

With your second point, the whole system of revenue going back to Gmt needs to change and the railway needs to be able to generate revenue and reinvest it in the railway. I'm sure I read that the current Government is planning to make this change at some stage in the near future.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2024 ==



Quick win. Off peak Fridays - won't lose too much revenue, might make some and uses capacity abandoned by four day week commuters.

Ticks all boxes - generates good will in the electorate - win win.

Admittedly, off-peak Fridays would de-rail LNER's price gouge, but I could live with that.

I wonder how many people who need to be in an office two or three days per week would start going in Fridays instead of another day if off-peak fares were offered?

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder how many people who need to be in an office two or three days per week would start going in Fridays instead of another day if off-peak fares were offered?

I'm sure a few would. But most would probably prefer a long weekend, so the revenue loss would be chicken feed !

 

[WAO]

The Sheffield - Moorthorpe proposal makes some sense if you think of it as Moorthorpe to Sheffield, i.e adding Sheffield (and South Yorks stations) to Leeds suburban electric services. As the route is 50% wired already, the return would be double and in a politically important area.

Against this is the continued diesel operation of XC along the route and the costs of wiring Sheffield Midland as a terminal just for subsidised local trains. I think that we'll have to wait till XC is wired North of Birmingham.

I like Oxford (it votes Labour at times!) wiring as a quick win as it's mostly already done and could just be in place when the Botley Road bridge is finally complete!

WAO

 

[fishwomp]

Achievable, fast, popular and revenue neutral or additive:

a) a railcard that is useful for those between young persons/student and senior ages on the whole network (for a higher annual fee).
b) abolish LNER's "simpler tickets", admit it's a scam to put people off travelling because passengers get in the way of running a service
c) trial class 37s on the weekly Stalybridge - Stockport, if ridership increases, roll out nationwide.

 

[yorksrob]

Achievable, fast, popular and revenue neutral or additive:

a) a railcard that is useful for those between young persons/student and senior ages on the whole network (for a higher annual fee).
b) abolish LNER's "simpler tickets", admit it's a scam to put people off travelling because passengers get in the way of running a service
c) trial class 37s on the weekly Stalybridge - Stockport, if ridership increases, roll out nationwide.

I agree with all of these.

(Ok, maybe replace 37's with 33's).

 

[AlastairFraser]

Since the Windermere branch is in a constituency where Labour came 4th, with 4.7% of the vote and one of their few lost deposits, I doubt there's much political capital for them there.

It would enable much longer EMU through services on a corridor which mostly travels through Labour seats (you can only exclude the Speaker's seat, plus Westmorland and Lonsdale.) Capacity on that corridor needs expansion, especially in the peaks.

The branch linespeed is only max. 60mph too, which means the catenary wouldn't necessarily need to be particularly heavy duty.

 

[deltic]

Quick win. Off peak Fridays - won't lose too much revenue, might make some and uses capacity abandoned by four day week commuters.

It lost TfL a shed load of money, Monday is the quietest day of the week apart from Sunday.

Quickish win is recruiting enough staff to run the advertised service, improve punctuality and reliability and bring Sunday into the working week.

Harmonise all ticket, Railcard restrictions etc and only prosecute persistent offenders or those obviously defrauding the railway. Reduce penalty fare to maximum double the fare that should have been paid.

Let's have a boring reliable railway and only then start thinking about future investment.

 

[778]

Electrify Uckfield, Oxted and North Downs lines.

 

[bluenoxid]

1. Round 4 of the New Stations Fund (implements within this parliamentary cycle, regional investment that people notice, stop laughing at the back about optimistic timescales)
2. Launch a easy claim station access fund focused on creating better non-motorised routes to railway stations (implements in the next 3-4 years, really obvious fixes that people can see in communities)
3. Shift rail fare rises so that they don’t dominate three separate news cycles (RPI announcement for July in September, rail fare increases announced and rail fare increases implemented), implements in 12 months.

The examples that I would use are a footbridge or traffic light crossings over the A629 at Steeton and Silsden or the path that is being discussed to connect Rodley to New Pudsey.

 

[Ken H]

The examples that I would use are a footbridge or traffic light crossings over the A629 at Steeton and Silsden or the path that is being discussed to connect Rodley to New Pudsey.

Steeton & Silsden needs a direct access into Airedale Hospital i think there is a walking route through Steeton Grove, Hawthorne Rd, Robin Drive, Currer Walk & Thornhill Rd where there is a ginnel into the hospotal to carpark 2 which is by A+E . Just needs signposting. I have found the route on Google Maps but it needs testing on foot.

So decent signposting can make stations 'nearer' to where people are actually going.

 

[fishwomp]

It would enable much longer EMU through services on a corridor which mostly travels through Labour seats (you can only exclude the Speaker's seat, plus Westmorland and Lonsdale.) Capacity on that corridor needs expansion, especially in the peaks.

The branch linespeed is only max. 60mph too, which means the catenary wouldn't necessarily need to be particularly heavy duty.

(on Windermere)

1. It'd be a waste of money to benefit a limited number of people. There is only one service per hour, quite well loaded (eg. https://railalefan.co.uk/labs/flowstats/WDM/) - but in the grand scheme of things it's not big enough - so not a priority for the country - there are better value infills for freight for example.
2. There would be complaints about the eyesore of catenary in an area of beauty to drag out the process.


It fails the quick win test - neither a win (small passenger numbers and low benefit) nor quick.

 

[AlastairFraser]

(on Windermere)

1. It'd be a waste of money to benefit a limited number of people. There is only one service per hour, quite well loaded (eg. https://railalefan.co.uk/labs/flowstats/WDM/) - but in the grand scheme of things it's not big enough - so not a priority for the country - there are better value infills for freight for example.
2. There would be complaints about the eyesore of catenary in an area of beauty to drag out the process.


It fails the quick win test - neither a win (small passenger numbers and low benefit) nor quick.

It enables you to run long through EMUs the whole way from Manchester Airport to Windermere though (important for Lancs passengers into Manchester and capacity on the Piccadilly to Airport corridor, as well as the additional benefits like providing more capacity from Oxenholme into Windermere.) It wouldn't be finanically viable to split the services at Lancaster or Preston - you'd be using additional units and staff, plus you couldn't relocate the spare 195s to extend other services).

As for catenary, the visual impact can be minimised with the low linespeed by implementing a lightweight wood-based catenary support structure that is less visually obtrusive.

 

[stevieinselby]

The Sheffield - Moorthorpe proposal makes some sense if you think of it as Moorthorpe to Sheffield, i.e adding Sheffield (and South Yorks stations) to Leeds suburban electric services. As the route is 50% wired already, the return would be double and in a politically important area.

Against this is the continued diesel operation of XC along the route and the costs of wiring Sheffield Midland as a terminal just for subsidised local trains. I think that we'll have to wait till XC is wired North of Birmingham.

The Leeds to Sheffield via Moorthorpe service is such a key corridor that it currently manages with an hourly service, usually run by a 2-car class 150 ... I can't see it justifying major investment until the Midland mainline is electrified to Sheffield and XCountry are looking to get bi-mode trains.

 

[Energy]

Sorting XC capacity is the obvious one. Its overcrowding is well known, and the TOC spreads across the country (aside from Northern Ireland).

 

[Manutd1999]

1. Invest in a new fleet of bi-modes for XC, bought outright to put pressure on the ROSCOs and built in the UK as part of a capital spending/growth agenda.

2. Rebrand LNER as Intercity as the first step towards GBR.

3. New standard contract for new GBR guard/driver recruits, making Sunday working part of the standard shift pattern with no overtime.

4. Double Air Passenger Duty on flights where there a direct train <5 hrs. APD x10 on all private jets. Use the money to freeze fares for 5 years.

5. Setup a specialised rail electrification unit within Network Rail, with a long-term pipeline of projects to enable them to hire their own staff and truly benefit from lessons learnt, rather than relying on contractors.


Not necessarily "quick wins" but popular policies which will lead to real benefits.

 

[brad465]

Announce Bakerloo line replacements: more work for the Goole factory benefitting the north, plus Londoners finally look forward to the oldest Underground stock (and general stock) leaving.

 

[bluenoxid]

Steeton & Silsden needs a direct access into Airedale Hospital i think there is a walking route through Steeton Grove, Hawthorne Rd, Robin Drive, Currer Walk & Thornhill Rd where there is a ginnel into the hospotal to carpark 2 which is by A+E . Just needs signposting. I have found the route on Google Maps but it needs testing on foot.

So decent signposting can make stations 'nearer' to where people are actually going.

I haven’t walked that route for a long time, so not sure if it has finally been opened up. This kind of work is cheap, quick to implement and transformative. They could even link it with some public arts money and put something on the new route to act as a focal point for the route.

 

[stevieinselby]

1. Invest in a new fleet of bi-modes for XC, bought outright to put pressure on the ROSCOs and built in the UK as part of a capital spending/growth agenda.
...
Not necessarily "quick wins" but popular policies which will lead to real benefits.

Definitely not a "quick win" ... unlikely that we would see the new trains on the rails before the end of this parliament!
And unless there is an alternative use for the Voyager fleet, it doesn't seem like it's in the country's best interests to have them scrapped at only ~25 years old.

 

[Western Lord]

1. Invest in a new fleet of bi-modes for XC, bought outright to put pressure on the ROSCOs and built in the UK as part of a capital spending/growth agenda.

2. Rebrand LNER as Intercity as the first step towards GBR.

3. New standard contract for new GBR guard/driver recruits, making Sunday working part of the standard shift pattern with no overtime.

4. Double Air Passenger Duty on flights where there a direct train <5 hrs. APD x10 on all private jets. Use the money to freeze fares for 5 years.

5. Setup a specialised rail electrification unit within Network Rail, with a long-term pipeline of projects to enable them to hire their own staff and truly benefit from lessons learnt, rather than relying on contractors.


Not necessarily "quick wins" but popular policies which will lead to real benefits.

Popular with rail enthusiasts, most of the public couldn't care less.

 

[Howardh]

Under Andy Burnham as Mayor and a Labour government, I'm actually surprised Northern hasn't been forced to "drop" the "afternoon peak" situation, which is something other regions don't have (??) and also doesn't apply if you are travelling from TFGM area to another.

I'm sure that would be popular with commuters, and also with the nightime economy it half-price evening returns were re-introduced

 

[High Dyke]

In our minds we could all have suggestions for "quick wins". However, the bigger picture for the bean counters would be the cost/benefit balance. For example, I could suggest redoubling the single line sections on many branch lines (Skegness, Sheringham etc), but what would that achieve? There would be little or no improvement in service. That's not to say some schemes may warrant consideration.

Others have already mentioned infrastructure improvements. Yes, better weather resilience is needed. Many routes need proper track renewal, not just hotch-potch titivation. Upgrade sections for proper bidirectional working, as in other countries. Simplify the fares system. Would a fixed pricing structure work, based on distance travelled? Can we learn best practices from other countries?

 

[Mikey C]

If they want a quick win, that costs virtually nothing and would be really popular...

Abolish the "See it, say it, sorted" message

 

[Ghostbus]

Cap the currently exorbitant walk on rail fares to a maximum £X per mile. Fully funded with a tax on private jet usage.

End the abhorrent practice of making fare evasion a criminal offence.

Declare that rail staff won't get a single extra penny in pay for this entire parliament without reform to archaic terms and conditions.

Sack the current transport secretary.

Launch GBR with a huge advertising campaign explaining how it will actually improve the railway for current and future passengers.

 

[HSTEd]

Definitely not a "quick win" ... unlikely that we would see the new trains on the rails before the end of this parliament!
And unless there is an alternative use for the Voyager fleet, it doesn't seem like it's in the country's best interests to have them scrapped at only ~25 years old.

Even with recent increases in gilt yields, it is likely that the cost of ownership of a new electrodiesel fleet would be lower than the cost of leasing Voyagers.

The rates of return in the private sector are far higher than in the state sector.
In addition, the Voyagers have appalling capacity per unit length, it's likely capacity could go up and still have fewer vehicles to maintain.

A four car Voyager has the same number of seats as a three car XC Turbostar!

 

[6Gman]

3. New standard contract for new GBR guard/driver recruits, making Sunday working part of the standard shift pattern with no overtime.


Not necessarily "quick wins" but popular policies which will lead to real benefits.

What exactly do you mean by no overtime?

 

[mike57]

Simplify fares, every week there is a news article about someone caught out due to fare complexity, its bad publicity, and will discourage increase rail use. Keep it revenue neutral, but as other have said do away with TOC specific fares with the exception of OA operators. Manage demand by means of advance ticket sales. Open singles are half the current price of a return, and come in Anytime and Off Peak varieties. Remove the need for split tickets.

Pick one route, and get on and finish its electrification, to my mind contenders would be Midland Main Line (i.e to Sheffield and Nottingham), GWR routes (all the main line bits to say Plymouth) or Transpennine route (York, Leeds, Manchester and diversion routes). If it could be acheived within budget (yes I know, a big ask) and delivered in a way that avoids the issues around previous schemes then public confidence may be restored. Set up an internal delivery organisation which when one route is finished can then move on to the next route. The current piecemeal approach must be more expensive in the long run.