Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Goldfish62]

100s built in China (by Guangtong Manufacture, who also build ADL products for the Hong Kong market), 400s in the UK it appears. 200s TBD as the range hasn't been launched yet.

ADL state that the E100 chassis and body frame are built in China, then completed in the UK.

Yes, E400EV completely in the UK with no Chinese components.

 

[Volvodart]

Half a billion-pound investment in electric buses secured ahead of International Investment Summit

Half a billion-pound investment in electric buses secured ahead of International Investment Summit

Communities across the country will benefit from brand new, state-of-the-art green buses.

www.gov.uk

Up to 500 UK manufacturing jobs are set to be supported as bus operator Go Ahead today (8 October 2024) announces a major £500 million investment to decarbonise its fleet, including creating a new dedicated manufacturing line and partnership with Northern Ireland-based bus manufacturer Wrightbus.

The investment is set to fund the manufacturing of up to 1,200 new zero emission buses over the next 3 years. Built for operator Go Ahead, this investment will accelerate the transition to greener buses across the country including in Plymouth, Gloucestershire, East Yorkshire, London and the Isle of Wight.

On top of directly supporting 500 manufacturing jobs, the £500 million investment for Wrightbus will also support an additional 2,000 jobs across the wider UK supply chain by 2026, helping to get us back on track for growth.

The Transport Secretary will also announce plans to create a new UK Bus Manufacturing Expert Panel. This panel will bring together industry experts and local leaders to explore ways to ensure the UK remains a leader in bus manufacturing, help local authorities deliver on their transport ambitions, and begin to seize opportunities to embrace zero emission transport technologies.

The Transport Secretary is expected to meet with key industry leaders today including Wrightbus owner Jo Bamford and CEO Jean-Marc Gales, to reaffirm the government’s commitment to decarbonising local transport and fostering an environment for investment in the UK manufacturing industry, bringing sustained economic growth and supporting jobs.

The announcement comes ahead of the International Investment Summit, which will gather UK leaders, high-profile investors and businesses from across the world to discuss how we can deepen our partnership to drive investment and growth.

The Transport Secretary is expected to hold several bilateral meetings at the summit with international business leaders and make clear the UK is “open for business” so that she can help attract further investment to support the delivery of our transport priorities across the country.

The Prime Minister will also convene the first Council of Nations and Regions later this week, bringing together first ministers, Northern Ireland’s First Minister and Deputy First Minister and regional mayors from across England, as the government forges new partnerships, resets relationships to secure long term investment with the aim of boosting growth and living standards in every part of the UK.

Transport Secretary, Louise Haigh said:

The number one mission of this government is growing the economy. The half a billion pounds Go Ahead is announcing today shows the confidence industry has in investing in the UK

This announcement will see communities across the country benefit from brand new, state-of-the-art green buses - which will deliver cleaner air and better journeys.

We’re creating the right conditions for businesses to flourish, so we can support jobs and accelerate towards decarbonising the transport sector.

Under this government, Britain is open for business.

For every vehicle manufactured, 10 trees will be planted by Go-Ahead and Wrightbus in the towns and cities where the buses are deployed.

Buses, as the most used form of public transport, have been prioritised by this government from the outset. The Transport Secretary has made improving bus services and delivering greener transport 2 of her 5 core priorities.

Last month, the Transport Secretary announced a package of measures to empower local leaders to take back control of their bus services and deliver services based on the needs of communities, to grow passenger numbers and deliver better services for all.

Building on this, the government’s new buses bill is set to be introduced in Parliament by the end of this year and will bring an end to the current postcode lottery by taking steps to improve bus services no matter where you live.

Further details on the UK Bus Manufacturing Expert Panel will be confirmed in due course.

Go-Ahead Bus CEO, Matt Carney said:

This multi-million pound investment and partnership with Wrightbus will accelerate the transition to zero-emission fleet across the UK.

We are proud to be working in partnership with the UK government and local authorities to deliver transformational environmental change for communities, while supporting UK jobs and the growth of the country’s supply chain.

Wrightbus CEO, Jean-Marc Gales said:

The deal with Go-Ahead is hugely significant and represents a huge boost to the UK’s economy. It will support homegrown manufacturing, jobs and skills for the next three years and beyond. We’ve always been proud to support the UK’s supply chain and our Go-Ahead partnership will ensure even more money can be spent securing good green jobs.

We must also not forget that this deal represents a massive step forward in our ambition to help decarbonise the transport sector with our world-leading products. It was heartening today to hear the government reaffirm its commitment to a green transport sector.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Half a billion-pound investment in electric buses secured ahead of International Investment Summit

Half a billion-pound investment in electric buses secured ahead of International Investment Summit

Communities across the country will benefit from brand new, state-of-the-art green buses.

www.gov.uk

This is a really interesting order.

In effect it's placing orders for immediate needs and then reserving capacity for the next couple of years, it seems.

As far as I can tell it will include the funding long since awarded in the North East (from Levelling Up funds) for the Angel 21 at Go North East (or was that ordered prior to this? I've seen nothing to say it has), and the 201 vehicles awarded in ZEBRA2 bids (electric buses to Go North East for the 58 and X66, and also for Pulhams, Go South Coast (Salisbury and Isle of Wight), Plymouth, Brighton & Hove and East Yorkshire, as well as 43 more Hydrogen buses to Metrobus). The rest then "mostly" go to London.

What's really interesting is that 75 BYD BD11s are going to London, and it was mooted in the press that they were considerably cheaper and faster to deliver. Clearly a hell of a deal has been done by Wrightbus here...

 

[MotCO]

What is Wrights annual output of buses. 1200 over 3 years must take up a fair proportion of that.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

What is Wrights annual output of buses. 1200 over 3 years must take up a fair proportion of that.

I think they are turning out nearer 1000 per year at the moment. The story does note that a dedicated production line will be reserved for this.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Such a size order will certainly test how good the build quality is at scale

 

[MotCO]

I think they are turning out nearer 1000 per year at the moment. The story does note that a dedicated production line will be reserved for this.

Will this mean taking orders from ADL? In which case he new jobs created at Wrights might be offfset by a reduction in jobs at ADL.

 

[Volvodart]

I think they are turning out nearer 1000 per year at the moment. The story does note that a dedicated production line will be reserved for this.

This article says 22 per week currently rising to 26 by end of next year.

Wrightbus has contributed more than £1.5 billion to the UK economy

The rebirth of iconic bus-maker Wrightbus has contributed more than £1.5 billion to the UK economy thanks to its support for home-grown suppliers and a UK workforce.

wrightbus.com

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Will this mean taking orders from ADL? In which case he new jobs created at Wrights might be offfset by a reduction in jobs at ADL.

Who knows - ADL have supplied a lot of Go-Ahead London's electric vehicles in conjunction with BYD in recent years, but there was no guarantee they'd continue.

ADL have quite a few orders in hand - there's a lot of Enviro 400EVs on order for Stagecoach in particular.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2024 ==

This article says 22 per week currently rising to 26 by end of next year.

Wrightbus has contributed more than £1.5 billion to the UK economy

The rebirth of iconic bus-maker Wrightbus has contributed more than £1.5 billion to the UK economy thanks to its support for home-grown suppliers and a UK workforce.

wrightbus.com

One sentence in that article caught my eye: "a seven-year contract with Transport for Greater Manchester".

That's the first I've heard of that. The only Wrightbus orders I can think of with TfGM are the 19 electric deckers for Go North West (arriving at the moment) and the large batch currently in build for Metroline Manchester...

 

[Snow1964]

What is Wrights annual output of buses. 1200 over 3 years must take up a fair proportion of that.

It's about 35% of Wrightbus capacity

Interesting that for every bus, 10 trees (it says trees, not saplings) will be planted in towns receiving the buses

 

[Leyland Bus]

It's about 35% of Wrightbus capacity

Interesting that for every bus, 10 trees (it says trees, not saplings) will be planted in towns receiving the buses

My bosses went out to WrightBus recently and they were told that Wright's had purchased a large former cigarette factory to expand production, so that'd help...

 

[Snow1964]

Route One mag online has this comment about the order, predominantly for London

First year deliveries will include 201 examples that are part-funded by the second round of the Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas scheme, with the remainder for that period for Go-Ahead London. Years two and three will be accounted for “predominantly” by London, a spokesperson says.

Go-Ahead agrees 1,200 zero-emission bus deal with Wrightbus - routeone

The Go-Ahead Group will invest £500 million in 1,200 new zero-emission buses from Wrightbus over the coming three years.

www.route-one.net

 

[Surreyman]

Route One mag online has this comment about the order, predominantly for London

Go-Ahead agrees 1,200 zero-emission bus deal with Wrightbus - routeone

The Go-Ahead Group will invest £500 million in 1,200 new zero-emission buses from Wrightbus over the coming three years.

www.route-one.net

Bad news for ADL, Wrightbus would seem to have secured a deal with Go Ahead which must have been very attractively priced, It does not appear to exclude Go ahead buying from other manufacturers (unless I am missing something?)
All the articles/press reports talk about zero emission vehicles but presumably Euro 6 diesels are still going to be needed, does the Wright deal include these?
I think ADL need to 'up their game' and do some serious deal-making with the likes of First, Stagecoach, Arriva, Metroline etc.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

This is entirely zero emission. There might be other diesel orders but the reality is that the pendulum is now decisively to ZE.

 

[MotCO]

This is entirely zero emission. There might be other diesel orders but the reality is that the pendulum is now decisively to ZE.

Are there any bus diagrams which exceed 250 - 300 miles a day, which seems to be the low end of current EV bus ranges? Maybe the First Excel routes in Norfolk?

Has sufficient progress been made to render the opportunity charging Irizars on the TfL 358 obsolete - i.e. conventional 'charge at the end of the day' buses may now be suitable?

 

[Snow1964]

Bad news for ADL, Wrightbus would seem to have secured a deal with Go Ahead which must have been very attractively priced, It does not appear to exclude Go ahead buying from other manufacturers (unless I am missing something?)
All the articles/press reports talk about zero emission vehicles but presumably Euro 6 diesels are still going to be needed, does the Wright deal include these?
I think ADL need to 'up their game' and do some serious deal-making with the likes of First, Stagecoach, Arriva, Metroline etc.

If as suggested years 2 and 3 are predominantly for London, then along with those for year one must be getting on for 800 for London. Clearly many of those will be against future tenders.

We already know 75 BYD11 and about 30 ADL100EVs are on order so this will help renew the fleet. The TfL fleet audit 31 March 2024 showed GoAhead had 770 buses that are upgraded to euroVI (rather than new enough to be built to euroVI).

Potentially if London does get lots of new electric buses, then many of the about 10 year old upgraded buses might be reconfigured, repainted and moved to provincial routes. Seems a more logical and consistent policy with their climate policy intentions than ordering new diesel buses which might still be in service in early 2040s.

 

[Steve440]

Bad news for ADL, Wrightbus would seem to have secured a deal with Go Ahead which must have been very attractively priced, It does not appear to exclude Go ahead buying from other manufacturers (unless I am missing something?)
All the articles/press reports talk about zero emission vehicles but presumably Euro 6 diesels are still going to be needed, does the Wright deal include these?
I think ADL need to 'up their game' and do some serious deal-making with the likes of First, Stagecoach, Arriva, Metroline etc.

Stagecoach have ordered a large number of EVs from ADL but also from Yutong, Wrightbus and Volvo. Obviously the previous link with ADL (common ownership via Brian Souter's shareholding) no longer applies so Stagecoach are free to order what they like.

 

[Energy]

Stagecoach have ordered a large number of EVs from ADL but also from Yutong, Wrightbus and Volvo. Obviously the previous link with ADL (common ownership via Brian Souter's shareholding) no longer applies so Stagecoach are free to order what they like.

Stagecoach still mostly order ADL. ADL didn’t handle the BYD to integral transition well, there was a gap for the E400 and the E200EV isn’t expected till 2025.

The Stagecoach Volvo order was before the E400EV was available and the Yutong order is for buses needed before E200EVs are available.

 

[GCH100]

Who knows - ADL have supplied a lot of Go-Ahead London's electric vehicles in conjunction with BYD in recent years, but there was no guarantee they'd continue.

ADL have quite a few orders in hand - there's a lot of Enviro 400EVs on order for Stagecoach in particular.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2024 ==


One sentence in that article caught my eye: "a seven-year contract with Transport for Greater Manchester".

That's the first I've heard of that. The only Wrightbus orders I can think of with TfGM are the 19 electric deckers for Go North West (arriving at the moment) and the large batch currently in build for Metroline Manchester...

In an article I read on here in the TfGM Fleet News section, it specified that TfGm would have to dual source orders to meet their needs, between Alexander Dennis and Wrightbus, so presumably further for TfGM are in the pipeline, especially with their Target for Electric Buses instead of a Polution Tax as in the West Midlands and Bristol area's. I suspect several more Wrightbus vehicles will follow over the next few years along with ADL Buses as part of this aim, as TfGM are keen to keep most of their deliveries with UK based manufacturers, hence ADL and Wrightbus.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2024 ==

Stagecoach still mostly order ADL. ADL didn’t handle the BYD to integral transition well, there was a gap for the E400 and the E200EV isn’t expected till 2025.

The Stagecoach Volvo order was before the E400EV was available and the Yutong order is for buses needed before E200EVs are available.

I think while ADL will remain a major suplier as all fleets at Stagecoach already have them, a more competitive order book since Brian Souter's departure is inevitable, so some orders will go elsewhere, especially in regards to Franchised area's, such as London and Greater Manchester, for specific needs.

 

[johnw]

The Volvos for Stagecoach Cambus are not low height, so may not one of Mr Sourters‘ “competitive orders”

 

[MotCO]

Will this mean taking orders from ADL? In which case he new jobs created at Wrights might be offfset by a reduction in jobs at ADL.

Routeone reports that 160 manufacturing jobs will be lost in Scotland, possibly in an effort to reduce production costs and be competitive with foreign imports. https://www.route-one.net/news/uk-bus-manufacturing-expert-panel-set-to-be-established/

A UK Bus Manufacturing Expert Panel is to be created. It will bring together industry experts and local leaders to explore ways of ensuring that the UK remains a leader in bus building; help local authorities to deliver transport ambitions; and begin to seize opportunities to embrace zero-emission transport technologies, the Department for Transport (DfT) says.
Announcement of the panel follows hot on the heels of plans by Alexander Dennis to shed 160 manufacturing jobs in Scotland. In announcing that proposal, the business blamed what it says is government policy that “disproportionately” benefits competitors from lower-cost economies.
As part of the plan to create the UK Bus Manufacturing Expert Panel, Secretary of State for Transport Louise Haigh will on 8 October meet with key bus industry figures, including Wrightbus owner Jo Bamford and Chief Executive Jean-Marc Gales.
Those efforts will see her “reaffirm the government’s commitment to decarbonising local transport and fostering an environment for investment in the UK manufacturing industry, bringing sustained economic growth and supporting jobs,” according to DfT. Further details of the panel will be announced in due course.
Announcement of the panel comes as the Go-Ahead Group confirmed an agreement with Wrightbus for 1,200 zero-emission buses over three years. It precedes the International Investment Summit on 14 October that will see UK leaders and global investors and businesses discuss how partnerships can be deepened to drive investment and growth.
The Confederation of Passenger Transport has welcomed creation of the panel. CEO Graham Vidler says that a transition to net-zero “will be achieved through strong partnerships between government and industry, like the UK Bus Manufacturing Expert Panel, and a long-term approach to funding and policy.”
Mr Vidler adds that appropriate use of public money “can leverage substantial private sector investment, as demonstrated by recent funding schemes like Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas, where every £1 of government money invested generated, on average, £2.50 of private sector investment.”
The Department for Transport says that buses “have been prioritised by this government from the outset,” and that Ms Haigh “has made improving bus services and delivering greener transport two of her five core priorities.”

 

[citybus2500]

If as suggested years 2 and 3 are predominantly for London, then along with those for year one must be getting on for 800 for London. Clearly many of those will be against future tenders.

We already know 75 BYD11 and about 30 ADL100EVs are on order so this will help renew the fleet. The TfL fleet audit 31 March 2024 showed GoAhead had 770 buses that are upgraded to euroVI (rather than new enough to be built to euroVI).

Potentially if London does get lots of new electric buses, then many of the about 10 year old upgraded buses might be reconfigured, repainted and moved to provincial routes. Seems a more logical and consistent policy with their climate policy intentions than ordering new diesel buses which might still be in service in early 2040s.

You need to look past the shine and actually work out what has been ordered. The actual order is for between 300-400 buses. The rest is a framework agreement for 3 years for up to 1200 buses and relies, very heavilly, on expected wins for TfL contracts that are likely to be awarded with EVs.

Go Ahead also have other not publically announced orders, including diesel buses, even for Oxford group companies.

The order for London BYDs is also believed to extend beyond the general knowledge of 75 buses, even if not by much.

Also, if the rumoured prices that Wrights are selling these buses for are true, either Wrights have been taking the mickey over the last 3 years with their pricing, or they have effectivley bought this order.

 

[michael8]

Southern Vectis

 

[Goldfish62]

Also, if the rumoured prices that Wrights are selling these buses for are true, either Wrights have been taking the mickey over the last 3 years with their pricing, or they have effectivley bought this order.

What are the rumoured prices? The average price per bus based on 1,200 works out at £416k, which itself is around 15-20% lower than the prevailing price for EVs (c£0.5m) and appears to be in line with what BYD are quoting for the BD11.

 

[PG]

Also, if the rumoured prices that Wrights are selling these buses for are true, either Wrights have been taking the mickey over the last 3 years with their pricing, or they have effectivley bought this order.

Hopefully it's not a case of value engineering down to a price, mention of which reminds me of some Volvo Olympians which used inferior steel to the previously Leyland model, and consequently were scrapped earlier.

 

[Edvid]

More on the upcoming integral Enviro200EV explained in Route One...

Alexander Dennis reveals details of next-generation Enviro200EV - routeone

Alexander Dennis has revealed details of its next-generation Enviro200EV battery-electric single-decker ahead of debut in 2025.

www.route-one.net

Alexander Dennis has revealed details of its next-generation Enviro200EV battery-electric single-decker ahead of a discovery theatre for the model on the manufacturer’s stand at Euro Bus Expo on 12-14 November.

The Enviro200EV is on track for launch in the metal during 2025. Engineering Director Chris Gall describes it as completing the Alexander Dennis portfolio for battery-electric buses in the UK. Launch customers are already identified and the Enviro200EV will build on the success of the longstanding Enviro200 diesel platform, he says.

To that end, the Enviro200EV will be available at lengths of 9.9m, 10.9m and 11.7m for provincial usage and with a 10.4m option in Transport for London (TfL) specification alongside the other lengths to TfL configuration. It will be 2.47m wide, with Mr Gall noting that Alexander Dennis has maximised the wheelbase to leverage the low-floor area.

Up to 43 seated passengers will be carried and with a maximum overall capacity of 92. The builder says that the latter figure represents an increase of up to 22 over some competitors. The TfL buses will peak at 34 seats and carry a maximum of 78 passengers at 11.7m.

GVW of the Enviro200EV will be 17,200kg, allowing use of smaller wheels than on a full-weight bus. The manufacturer has majored on a lower height and lighter structure that it says delivers a 1,800kg saving over heavyweight competitors.

400kWh of energy storage from CATL will be included. Unlike the existing Enviro100EV and Enviro400EV models from the next-generation Alexander Dennis range, the Enviro200EV will use lithium iron phosphate chemistry.

Those other vehicles utilise lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide technology. The change is thanks to what Mr Gall says is “more real estate on the roof” of the Enviro200EV and a resulting removal of the need on the Enviro100EV and Enviro400EV to tightly pack batteries. Up to 1.4GWh energy throughput over 10 years will be warranted on the Enviro200EV.

Power will be taken via the Voith Electrical Drive System. In standard from that will be used in its medium-duty iteration, but an option exists for the Enviro200EV to gain the heavy-duty traction package where higher-speed or more demanding usage cases are in play. Opportunity charging compatibility forms part of the model’s design.

Mr Gall adds that a focus for development of the Enviro200EV has been on the passenger experience, work from which will roll out on the other battery-electric buses in due course. He says that the manufacturer has aimed for “a premium and contemporary interior,” with warmer tones and styling lines that match the exterior.

A key area for that has been the door and platform, while saloon noise, vibration and harshness has also come under the microscope. That has built on work on the Enviro100EV and Enviro400EV but with tougher targets for the latest member of the in-house battery-electric range.

Saloon air-conditioning is fitted to the Enviro200EV, as it is the other two models. Alexander Dennis President and Managing Director Paul Davies adds that the manufacturer expects a good reduction in energy consumption for the new vehicle over heavyweight competitors and that it will deliver a total cost of ownership (TCO) benefit.

Mr Davies points to Zemo Partnership test results for the Enviro400EV as an indicator, which under closely controlled conditions have confirmed it as the most efficient battery-electric double-decker on the market with a return of 0.67kWh per km. He adds that its charging efficiency of 97% is a contributor to its TCO.

Production location for the Enviro200EV remains to be seen, but some could be built outside the UK. Mr Davies has been vocal on what Alexander Dennis believes is an unfair playing field for domestic bus manufacturers against those from lower-cost economies and he says that if Enviro200EV manufacture occurs elsewhere, it will be because of commercial pressures.

However, Mr Davies caveats that with an observation that the political outlook on domestic assembly may be changing, and that rollout of bus franchising is also driving a shift in attitudes. No decision has thus been made.

“It is something that we are still working through at the moment,” he explains. In reference to Enviro100EV bodyshells being built in China, that choice was made “on a needs-must basis because we have not had the signalling and the signposting from the government that what we do here in the UK is valued.”

However, national and local policy decisions will influence the manufacturer’s strategy. “It is much simpler for us to build in the UK,” Mr Davies continues. “But we have not had the confidence or the signposting from government at this point that that is worth anything.

“We work in a very commercially competitive environment. We have got to be sustainable as a business. That ultimately guides our decision-making.” He adds that Alexander Dennis is keen to discover more about the recently-announced UK Bus Manufacturing Expert Panel, announced by Secretary of State for Transport Louise Haigh on 8 October.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm afraid I remain cynical about another new ADL product that will likely squeak and rattle as much as the previous one or possibly more, but I noted the reference in the article to saloon, vibrations, etc. Maybe they've realised just like they realised back when the MMC was under development and they claimed it was rattle proof, that didn't last did it

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm afraid I remain cynical about another new ADL product that will likely squeak and rattle as much as the previous one or possibly more, but I noted the reference in the article to saloon, vibrations, etc. Maybe they've realised just like they realised back when the MMC was under development and they claimed it was rattle proof, that didn't last did it

The MMC was better than the original model so we have to hope that these are better again...

 

[goldisgood]

I'm pretty optimistic about the new ADL quality - certainly I've found rides on the new Enviro 400 EV to be the best compared to equivalent-aged Electroliners and BZLs (all of which have proved better than older diesel equivalents).

 

[Goldfish62]

In my experience the Electroliners have got some shoddy fittings so it'll be interesting to see.

A lot of the noise on the MMC (particularly creaking and squeaking) was due to the quick-release glazing which was a brave attempt to combine the ease of replacement with the appearance and robustness of bonded glazing.

I'm pretty optimistic about the new ADL quality - certainly I've found rides on the new Enviro 400 EV to be the best compared to equivalent-aged Electroliners and BZLs (all of which have proved better than older diesel equivalents).