Potential Fraud Investigation for ticket

[StevenBonnell]

Hello, railforums!

This morning, I hopped on my usual train to work—just a couple of stops and about 30 minutes with Northern Rail.

For a bit of context, I purchase a short-distance open return ticket every afternoon on my way home.

Today, when I presented my ticket, it flagged up because I had used it yesterday. This has happened a few times before, as the Uber app tends to highlight the ticket they think you’ll use first, making it a bit confusing.

In the past, I’ve simply apologised and shown my ticket for the day without any fuss. However, today, I encountered a conductor I hadn’t seen before, and he seemed a bit irritated. He took a photo of what appeared on his scanner and mentioned he would send it off for a fraud investigation. I explained the issue with the Uber app and showed him my valid ticket for the day, but he said that wasn’t a valid excuse and told me to ensure I got off at my final destination, insinuating I were trying to travel further.

Has anyone else experienced something similar, should I be worried?

None of my details were taken, just a very weird interaction.

Thanks for any insights!

 

[MrJeeves]

I think it's somewhat unlikely anything will come of this if they didn't take your details, but it is possible for the train operator to request your details from the retailer you purchased your ticket(s) from using the E-Ticket barcode/number (UTN).

I'd recommend you keep copies of the PDFs for the ticket which you accidentally displayed to the guard, as well as the one which was actually valid for that day, just in case they get in touch.

If they wanted to take the case to court, they would have a maximum of 6 months from the date of the "offense" to lay papers in front of the court, so I'd recommend that you keep copies of the tickets for at least these 6 months.

 

[Haywain]

Has anyone else experienced something similar, should I be worried?

As your details weren't taken, probably not. However, you should be aware that presenting a used ticket, even when you hold an unused one, can be seen as (attempted) fare evasion.

 

[AlterEgo]

Was the portion you showed part of an Off Peak or Anytime Return, valid for a month?

 

[Watershed]

I can't see that an offence has actually been committed here. They may try and insinuate that by accidentally showing the wrong ticket you were trying to reuse the ticket, but the fact is that you did pay the fare as you had a valid ticket, and presented this when you realised your mistake.

Sadly our experience is that once a train company (and particularly the likes of Northern) receive a fraud/prosecution report from one of their staff, they will set in motion a prosecution almost regardless of the evidence, only offering you the alternative of an inflated "out of Court settlement" if you want to avoid this.

Nevertheless, if you do get contacted, you should engage with them, providing them with evidence of both of the tickets you held. I would also make a request under the GDPR for a copy of the CCTV footage on the train, as well as any bodyworn camera footage (in case the guard had theirs activated and pressed the button to record the encounter). This footage might be useful in your defence, as it may lend credence to your account of events if it comes to it. For example it might show you showing the guard the correct ticket on your phone after they took the picture of the rejection message.

 

[some bloke]

Sadly our experience is that once a train company (and particularly the likes of Northern) receive a fraud/prosecution report from one of their staff, they will set in motion a prosecution almost regardless of the evidence

To avoid worrying @StevenBonnell too much, it's perhaps worth pointing out that usual practice is to threaten prosecution rather than set it in motion, and that we can't know how many reports result in that rather than no action.

People who don't hear from the company may be much less likely to post on this forum.

 

[StevenBonnell]

Was the portion you showed part of an Off Peak or Anytime Return, valid for a month?

This relates to the return leg of a 30-day anytime return ticket. Given that the ticket allows for break of journey, I presume this is why it appeared at the top, as it was still considered 'valid.' I typically choose a random date and time for my return when I purchase as it makes no difference and have never had a reaction like this. It just so happened that this was the closest option available.

As for my details, I have provided my legal name, email address, and phone number on Uber. I would expect that if Uber shared my information, they would be able to locate my address.

I've noticed some posts here from individuals mentioning that they were contacted after purchasing a ticket on Trainline. However, I haven't seen similar posts regarding Uber. Has anyone seen anything of this sort? I remain hopeful that it won't lead to much (fingers crossed).

 

[some bloke]

When someone posts on here that a company has started a prosecution without the passenger getting a letter first, it seems, perhaps always, to be because the company thought the passenger had failed to respond.

 

[John R]

I've noticed some posts here from individuals mentioning that they were contacted after purchasing a ticket on Trainline. However, I haven't seen similar posts regarding Uber. Has anyone seen anything of this sort? I remain hopeful that it won't lead to much (fingers crossed).

That's possibly because Trainline is a much more popular retailer than Uber, so purely on that basis we see fewer cases.