Ely -Kings Lynn no alternative transport for engineering block.

[Sleepy]

Great Northern website advises no alternative transport provided for late night engineering work due to flooding & roadworks tonight until Thursday night. https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/s...902340000#INC1ECF70ADEF3343BCA948031674494909 Is there really no alternative roads a taxi can take ??

 

[rocrat]

Great Northern website advises no alternative transport provided for late night engineering work due to flooding & roadworks tonight until Thursday night. https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/s...902340000#INC1ECF70ADEF3343BCA948031674494909 Is there really no alternative roads a taxi can take ??

This is absolutely bat****. There are plenty of roads between Ely and King's Lynn... they could even advise customers to use their services to Peterborough and existing buses (Excel) to King's Lynn, and intermediate stations could have shuttle buses/taxis (realistically Littleport/Watlington don't exactly have loads of passengers anyway)

Google Maps will tell you there are ample routes to drive, calling at all stations. Your general reminder that EU regulation 1371/2007 is still in place in the UK... this is a blatant breach of their responsibilities unless they seriously plan to put all passengers in hotels in Ely

 

[MikeWM]

I saw this earlier and thought it was more than a little unacceptable, especially as they didn't actually appear to issue this warning until early afternoon, ie. after people will have already set out with every expectation of being able to get home again.

Seems there are overnight roadworks on the A10 north of Littleport (and a fairly major diversion to avoid them), but they seem to have been planned for some time so this shouldn't be news to anyone. See eg. https://www.littleporttowncouncil.gov.uk/2024/09/upcoming-maintenance-works-a10-lynn-road/

That said, given the usual level of competence GN show, perhaps they did only notice this today.

 

[Magdalia]

This is absolutely bat****. There are plenty of roads between Ely and King's Lynn.

No there are not. The other options if the A10 is closed are very lengthy diversions.

The road network in the Fens is very sparse because of the limited number of crossings over rivers and drains. Furthermore, many of the minor roads are not suitable for buses/coaches because the variable shrinkage of peat makes them difficult to maintain, with a risk of long wheelbase vehicles "bottoming out".

There has been a lot of rain in the Fens in September, and more importantly in the headwaters of the River Ouse. There is lots of flooding already, including the Welney route being impassable. This means that on the western side of the line there is nowhere to cross the Bedford Levels between Mepal and Downham Market.

On the eastern side of the line lengthy diversions are required to cross the Little Ouse and Wissey rivers, for a bus/coach that probably means going via Mildenhall and Thetford.

Google Maps will tell you there are ample routes to drive

For a 4x4 car maybe, for a bus/coach no. Does the flooding at Welney show up on Google Maps?

they could even advise customers to use their services to Peterborough and existing buses (Excel) to King's Lynn

The last buses Kings Lynn-Peterborough are 1905 and 2125, returning at 2040 and 2245.

 

[arb]

The last buses Kings Lynn-Peterborough are 1905 and 2125, returning at 2040 and 2245.

So the bus route from Peterborough is not blocked? So why can't GN run replacement buses from Peterborough until the time of the last originally scheduled train, and tell people to travel by train to Peterborough instead of Ely?

 

[LAX54]

So the bus route from Peterborough is not blocked? So why can't GN run replacement buses from Peterborough until the time of the last originally scheduled train, and tell people to travel by train to Peterborough instead of Ely?

It seems the A10 road was closed and the diversionary route is also closed due to 4 foot of flooding. There was one possible driving route ELY-KLN which is around 85mile round trip and is a single lane track road which buses are unable to go down.

UK buses will not be able to access the single country roads and drivers refused the extended route times.

So guessing Bus from Peterborough was not on the table

Taxie were available I understand for late night arrivals (until last train's booked time)

 

[MikeWM]

It seems the A10 road was closed and the diversionary route is also closed due to 4 foot of flooding. There was one possible driving route ELY-KLN which is around 85mile round trip and is a single lane track road which buses are unable to go down.

I wasn't aware Welney had flooded (yet again) but apparently so

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24633608.welney-wash-road-impassable-rain-flooding/

Britain's most flooded road has become submerged once again with people using canoes to cross it.

The A1101 Welney Wash Road near Downham Market first became flooded last week following days of heavy rainfall.

A stretch of the flood-prone road became impassable as a result of the flooding.

A spokesman for Welney Flood Watch, a community group monitoring the water levels, said the road is covered by 1.2 metres of flood water. and is not passable today.

It does seem that under these fairly unusual circumstances that either NR should curtail the rolling routine overnight closure of the line until after the last service has run [1], or the Highways Agency should have suspended the overnight roadworks on the A10. Though perhaps putting on a handful of taxis turns out to be the cheapest option in this case? If they're running taxis, GN should probably say so rather than just saying 'hard luck, you're stranded', which is the message on the website.

[1] Actually I don't recall the regular routine (every 6 weeks?) closures starting as early as they appear to nowadays, with the last train from KGX to KLN being the 2039 - I thought it was only the last couple of trains that were usually terminated short. Has this creeped back?

 

[Magdalia]

I wasn't aware Welney had flooded (yet again)

Welney flooding in the winter is almost inevitable but it is unusual for it to happen so early in the autumn. That's the result of the very large rainfall in September. It is an interesting point as to whether road or rail engineers should have been prepared for that.

Actually I don't recall the regular routine (every 6 weeks?) closures starting as early as they appear to nowadays, with the last train from KGX to KLN being the 2039 - I thought it was only the last couple of trains that were usually terminated short. Has this creeped back?

In my commuting days the last through train from Kings Cross would be the 2115 departure.

An early close is required to give the engineers enough access to reopen in time for the first train next morning, which is now at 0444. You can't have it both ways!

 

[TUC]

This, like other similar discussions, does seem to be the rail industry being less competent to do exactly the same task as they would have done 10, 20, 30 years ago. Why?

 

[Llanigraham]

So the bus route from Peterborough is not blocked? So why can't GN run replacement buses from Peterborough until the time of the last originally scheduled train, and tell people to travel by train to Peterborough instead of Ely?

Perhaps because no bus company wanted to do it, or there were no drivers available?
The lack fo rail replacement coach services across the whole network has been mentioned numerous times on here and full explanations have been provided as to why that is happening.

 

[greatkingrat]

An early close is required to give the engineers enough access to reopen in time for the first train next morning, which is now at 0444. You can't have it both ways!

In terms of number of passengers affected, surely it would be better to cancel the first couple of morning trains, and run a later evening service?

 

[bramling]

In terms of number of passengers affected, surely it would be better to cancel the first couple of morning trains, and run a later evening service?

I wouldn’t say so. The early morning services on the GN route are pretty well established, and tend to be well used by shift workers. The late evening services are much more discretionary, as few shift patterns rely on very late evening services. Also on balance it’s probably more important in the wider scheme of things for people not to be late for work than late getting home.

 

[LAX54]

This, like other similar discussions, does seem to be the rail industry being less competent to do exactly the same task as they would have done 10, 20, 30 years ago. Why?

Not sure it's the Railways fault, Engineering work is pre-planned, a storm and heavy rain is not,
It is the RRB that could not cope, not the Railway, the drivers refused to do extra time

 

[AlastairFraser]

There is lots of flooding already, including the Welney route being impassable.

For anyone who needs a visual illustration, this video is a great resource to show just how bad it can get.
Welney Wash Road flooding
(ALT TEXT: An A road in Cambridgeshire between the A10 at Littleport and the A1122 at Outwell regularly floods on the Welney Wash period, sometimes for extended duration of up to 85 days. The presenter, Jon from Auto Shenanigans, explains the causes behind the frequent flooding.)

 

[Class 170101]

In my commuting days the last through train from Kings Cross would be the 2115 departure.

An early close is required to give the engineers enough access to reopen in time for the first train next morning, which is now at 0444. You can't have it both ways!

In terms of number of passengers affected, surely it would be better to cancel the first couple of morning trains, and run a later evening service?

It should be noted that there is also a freight flow passing early in the morning towards Middleton Towers otherwise it may well be better to cancel balancing services early up road and late down road.