Class 222's with Pantograph's?

[87015]

They need to stop and completely reboot, as do 378s, but 350s can apparently do this on the move!

Can't recall 350s ever doing it on the move, unlike 319s where doing it on the move was not uncommon.
350s didn't seem to like doing it given the amount of failures, certainly a higher number of farces relative to 377s at North Pole.

 

[TomJ93]

377s don't live at North Pole 373s do!

I'm sure they can do 'reinforced' sections of wire especially for pan ups?

 

[asylumxl]

Can't recall 350s ever doing it on the move, unlike 319s where doing it on the move was not uncommon.

I believe they've been known to do it when delayed and missing stations. Through WFJ i think, but I may be totally wrong.

 

[MCR247]

377s don't live at North Pole 373s do!

I'm sure they can do 'reinforced' sections of wire especially for pan ups?

North Pole is where you change voltages on the WLL

That and 373s live at Temple Mills now

 

[TomJ93]

Note to self in the future, coffee first, RailUK after

 

[Nym]

Note to self in the future, coffee first, RailUK after

Also, don't post when you're drunk and/or on a PDA, tends to bite you later when pepole point out silly mistake...

 

[TomJ93]

^ I know just the sort, they go around saying MkIIs and IIIs should have been kept instead of Pendos, they must be absoloutely hammered!

 

[j0hn0]

Also, don't post when you're drunk and/or on a PDA, tends to bite you later when pepole point out silly mistake...

ain't that the truth!

 

[Crossover]

How about the 377s doing East Croydon to MKC?

I think as a standard measure they stop (certainly did on the service I did some time ago. Actually, that was a hired 350, but I still think its standard course to stop)

However, I have read on here that it has been known for drivers (especially if running late) to do it on the fly, at a not fast, but steady speed.

 

[MCR247]

It isn't possible on a 377 to do it on the move as it require a complete reboot etc AFAIK, although 350s can do it on the move.

 

[87015]

It isn't possible on a 377 to do it on the move as it require a complete reboot etc AFAIK, although 350s can do it on the move.

Evidence? 350s re-boot aswell, never heard of them doing it on the move. Not that I'd want to disrupt your usual Siemens love-in...

 

[pendolino]

It isn't possible on a 377 to do it on the move as it require a complete reboot etc AFAIK, although 350s can do it on the move.

It is possible, but Southern's operating procedure is to bring the train to a stand at VC813 signal (on the Down West London; or at VC811 signal if travelling on the Up in the reverse direction). Then DDS to Neutral, Brake Step 3, DRA set, as if standing at a red signal (regardless of the aspect on VC813).

The Pan Up procedure involves opening the DC MCB (the button is marked 'Shoes Up' or 'MCB Open'), selecting the AC system ('AC System Select'), then closing the AC VCB ('Pan Up' or 'MCB Close').

Going from AC to DC, the same applies: bring the train to a stand at the relevant signal (VC818 or 816), Step 3/Neutral/DRA, then 'MCB Close/Pan Down', 'DC System Select' and 'Shoes Down/MCB Close'.

It's not the same as a complete reboot ('Aux Off'), which takes a lot longer. When you change from DC to AC or vice versa, the Main Circuit Breaker opens (either DC MCB or AC VCB - you can hear the clonk of the VCB if you sit by the disabled toilet in the PTOSL), but the battery contacts remain closed, so in effect the unit goes into load shed as it's running on batteries until the relevant MCB is closed (the Cyclops light above the cab goes out, indicating load shed).

When you Aux Off (carried out as part of the Prep procedure to reboot the computers), the battery contacts are opened too, which makes the unit completely dead.

(But yes, I know there are a couple of drivers who sometimes do it on the move)

 

[TGV]

Presumably the shoegear is earthed before VCB closure is permitted?

 

[MCR247]

Evidence? 350s re-boot aswell, never heard of them doing it on the move. Not that I'd want to disrupt your usual Siemens love-in...

Someone I know has had it done on the move

But if 350s require a complete reboot doesn't the PIS and everything stay on (IIRC) and not on 377s?

 

[Daimler]

Evidence? 350s re-boot aswell, never heard of them doing it on the move. Not that I'd want to disrupt your usual Siemens love-in...

Certainly the 350s can switch from OHL to 3rd Rail on the move - this forum's own Pumbaa has posted about it, and I've been on board at North Pole where the train has only made the most momentary stop - so there's no need for a reboot (at least, not a reboot requiring a stop as extended as that of the Electrostars) when power supply is changed.

Going from 3rd Rail to OHL I've never heard of (or experienced) either Desiros or Electrostars able to do it on the move - but then again, I suspect the slow linespeed and gradient of the changeover at North Pole inherently makes this more difficult than the former.

 

[pendolino]

Presumably the shoegear is earthed before VCB closure is permitted?

Opening the DC MCB on a 377/2 also raises the shoes clear of the 3rd rail, which is why the button is marked 'Shoes Up' on a 377/2 and 'MCB Open' on all the other Southern 377 subclasses which don't have the capability of raising the shoes (I assume it's 'Shoes Up' on FCC's 377/5s too).

 

[A0]

Certainly the 350s can switch from OHL to 3rd Rail on the move - this forum's own Pumbaa has posted about it, and I've been on board at North Pole where the train has only made the most momentary stop - so there's no need for a reboot (at least, not a reboot requiring a stop as extended as that of the Electrostars) when power supply is changed.

Going from 3rd Rail to OHL I've never heard of (or experienced) either Desiros or Electrostars able to do it on the move - but then again, I suspect the slow linespeed and gradient of the changeover at North Pole inherently makes this more difficult than the former.

I'm sure it would have made more sense to run the wires to Kensington Olympia station -that way when the trains had to stop the changeover could be made (as with Drayton Park or Faringdon).

 

[TGV]

Opening the DC MCB on a 377/2 also raises the shoes clear of the 3rd rail, which is why the button is marked 'Shoes Up' on a 377/2 and 'MCB Open' on all the other Southern 377 subclasses which don't have the capability of raising the shoes (I assume it's 'Shoes Up' on FCC's 377/5s too).

Yes, but what I mean is that once they are raised off the 3rd rail (by whatever means), do they get earthed via a dedicated earthing switch.

On class 373 when running on 3rd rail and before all that kit was taken off, the shoegear had to be earthed BEFORE the VCB could be closed and the transformer energised. I was wondering if this system was in place on other stock.

 

[Lampshade]

It is possible, but Southern's operating procedure is to bring the train to a stand at VC813 signal (on the Down West London; or at VC811 signal if travelling on the Up in the reverse direction). Then DDS to Neutral, Brake Step 3, DRA set, as if standing at a red signal (regardless of the aspect on VC813).

The Pan Up procedure involves opening the DC MCB (the button is marked 'Shoes Up' or 'MCB Open'), selecting the AC system ('AC System Select'), then closing the AC VCB ('Pan Up' or 'MCB Close').

Going from AC to DC, the same applies: bring the train to a stand at the relevant signal (VC818 or 816), Step 3/Neutral/DRA, then 'MCB Close/Pan Down', 'DC System Select' and 'Shoes Down/MCB Close'.

It's not the same as a complete reboot ('Aux Off'), which takes a lot longer. When you change from DC to AC or vice versa, the Main Circuit Breaker opens (either DC MCB or AC VCB - you can hear the clonk of the VCB if you sit by the disabled toilet in the PTOSL), but the battery contacts remain closed, so in effect the unit goes into load shed as it's running on batteries until the relevant MCB is closed (the Cyclops light above the cab goes out, indicating load shed).

When you Aux Off (carried out as part of the Prep procedure to reboot the computers), the battery contacts are opened too, which makes the unit completely dead.

(But yes, I know there are a couple of drivers who sometimes do it on the move)

It used to be a hell of a lot easier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPg0sZPl28s

Also, last time I was on a 377 at Faringdon, the train did completely reset, the lights flickered and the PIS went blank before displaying 'Electrostar', like a DVD player when reset, is this normal or a complete reboot?

 

[OxtedL]

Yes that's what they do.

When they were new, they displayed "Electrostar" quite a lot as well.

171s do a similar thing when reset, displaying "Class 171 Turbostar" when nothing else has happened yet... Such imagination, the PIS programmers...

 

[Class172]

Yes that's what they do.

When they were new, they displayed "Electrostar" quite a lot as well.

171s do a similar thing when reset, displaying "Class 171 Turbostar" when nothing else has happened yet... Such imagination, the PIS programmers...

Like the LM 170s display: 'Class 170 Turbostar'

 

[Nym]

System.out.println("Nothing wrong with programmers!");

 

[pendolino]

Yes, but what I mean is that once they are raised off the 3rd rail (by whatever means), do they get earthed via a dedicated earthing switch.

On class 373 when running on 3rd rail and before all that kit was taken off, the shoegear had to be earthed BEFORE the VCB could be closed and the transformer energised. I was wondering if this system was in place on other stock.

I don't know, to be honest. The shoegear might be earthed automatically as part of the Shoes Up > AC System Select > Pan Up procedure, but there's no dedicated switch/button for earthing the shoes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It used to be a hell of a lot easier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPg0sZPl28s

Also, last time I was on a 377 at Faringdon, the train did completely reset, the lights flickered and the PIS went blank before displaying 'Electrostar', like a DVD player when reset, is this normal or a complete reboot?

It doesn't really take any longer than that 313 to be fair. It's only a matter of pressing 3 buttons in the correct sequence.

I don't know what FCC's procedure is, and your experience may have been down to a fault, but the saloon lights might go to emergency temporarily while neither MCB nor VCB are closed, as the unit is running on battery power. When on batteries, the train goes into load shed and shuts down non-essential systems, like saloon lights (except emergency lights), A/C, water heaters etc. This might be what you've seen.

(I've never been in the saloon when the switch to/from AC to DC has happened, so I am guessing to a certain extent. But I was prepping a 377 once, Auxed it off, Auxed it back on but forgot to press DC System Select and MCB close once the self test had completed (it takes a couple of minutes or so). I only realised as I was walking through the unit doing a door test, wondering why only the emergency lights were lit).

 

[MCR247]

I don't know what FCC's procedure is, and your experience may have been down to a fault, but the saloon lights might go to emergency temporarily while neither MCB nor VCB are closed, as the unit is running on battery power. When on batteries, the train goes into load shed and shuts down non-essential systems, like saloon lights (except emergency lights), W/C, water heaters etc. This might be what you've seen.

(I've never been in the saloon when the switch to/from AC to DC has happened, so I am guessing to a certain extent. But I was prepping a 377 once, Auxed it off, Auxed it back on but forgot to press DC System Select and MCB close once the self test had completed (it takes a couple of minutes or so). I only realised as I was walking through the unit doing a door test, wondering why only the emergency lights were lit).

You can when your electrostar is changing voltages because the "hum" and background noise of the A/C goes, and there is emergency lighting on 377s IIRC, although this doesn't happen on 378s IIRC

 

[pendolino]

You can when your electrostar is changing voltages because the "hum" and background noise of the A/C goes, and there is emergency lighting on 377s IIRC, although this doesn't happen on 378s IIRC

You're right about the Air Con (I meant to type A/C in my post above, not W/C! I was probably getting ahead of myself about the water heaters in the WC), one of the first things to go when the unit goes into load shed. 377 emergency cupboards now have hot weather door kits for if a train fails for an unusual length of time on a hot day, as the A/C will shut down and the hopper windows are not very efficient.

 

[ukrob]

You're right about the Air Con (I meant to type A/C in my post above, not W/C! I was probably getting ahead of myself about the water heaters in the WC), one of the first things to go when the unit goes into load shed. 377 emergency cupboards now have hot weather door kits for if a train fails for an unusual length of time on a hot day, as the A/C will shut down and the hopper windows are not very efficient.

What does the (I suspect grandly titled) 'hot weather door kit' consist of?

 

[Fincra5]

What does the (I suspect grandly titled) 'hot weather door kit' consist of?

A barricade to place infront of an Open door (Egressed passenger door), to allow some air flow. However I think there is only enough for 1 per coach. Never had to use them yet.