Rail add-on to senior bus pass (TFGM)?

[Howardh]

I will shortly be getting my bus pass through the post - I intend to go to my local transport office to add £10 on to use the local trains. If I do that, is the card valid immediately I've paid, or is there a wait before it's valid? I'm expecting it to be instant so I can go to the station and use it right away, but need to make sure!!

Thanks!!

 

[cool110]

When playing at a shop or ticket office they add it immediately, unless you ask for it to be post-dated. It's only online where you have to wait a day for it to be pushed out to the tram validators for collection.

 

[Buzby]

Assuming it’s an RFID card you should be able to load it at any TVM that allows it. Different areas have different requirements- once funds are loaded you can start using immediately. You can even download an app to scan your card to advise how much credit is left (IF your phone has RFID capability) I use Smart Ticket Checker on my iPhone free from the App Store

 

[Howardh]

Thanks; good to know that online I have to wait, didn't know that. I'll do it at the office!

 

[Bungle965]

Assuming it’s an RFID card you should be able to load it at any TVM that allows it.

Doubt you'd be able to find a TVM that would be able to read a TfGM concessionary pass.

 

[Buzby]

Doubt you'd be able to find a TVM that would be able to read a TfGM concessionary pass

Clearly it depends on the area - but I can load my card (usually £10) and use it on SPT’s Subway.

 

[cool110]

Clearly it depends on the area - but I can load my card (usually £10) and use it on SPT’s Subway.

This isn't PAYG credit, it's effectively an annual season ticket.

 

[Buzby]

This isn't PAYG credit, it's effectively an annual season ticket.

No it is not. It’s used as a ‘purse’ and the cost of each journey is decremented from the card - it is fully PAYG. The Subway Smartcard is a differrnt product for a non NEC passenger.

 

[cool110]

No it is not. It’s used as a ‘purse’ and the cost of each journey is decremented from the card - it is fully PAYG

That may be the case in Glasgow, but Greater Manchester ENCTS for older people is bus only by default with a £10 per year fee to add train and Metrolink validity.

 

[Buzby]

£10 per year fee to add train and Metrolink validity.

I got my Bee card for free - as I cannot use a Scottish NEC card there - so I paid PAYG for bus, tram and train travel. Seems a bit mean of them adding an annual fee…

 

[Haywain]

I got my Bee card for free - as I cannot use a Scottish NEC card there - so I paid PAYG for bus, tram and train travel. Seems a bit mean of them adding an annual fee…

£10 for a year's use of rail services across Greater Manchester, and you think that's mean?

 

[JBuchananGB]

@Buzby is mixing things a bit. There is a thing called a Bee card in Greater Manchester which functions as PAYG. But the OP is asking about the ENCTS bus pass issued by TfGM, and for which an £10 supplement can be paid for train and tram travel in GM. According to https://tfgm.com/tickets-and-passes/ways-to-pay/smart-card it is possible to link an ENCTS card to your account to add tram and train for the year, or buy tickets for when your pass isn’t valid for travel. I would suggest the OP goes to the local transport office to have the process explained fully.
It looks as though the process is: First - create a Bee account. Next - add the ENCTS pass to the account. Then - Add Train/tram supplement to pass. Last: Touch pass at a Metrolink reader to put supplement on pass.

 

[cool110]

It looks as though the process is: First - create a Bee account. Next - add the ENCTS pass to the account. Then - Add Train/tram supplement to pass. Last: Touch pass at a Metrolink reader to put supplement on pass.

That's for buying online, doing it in person just requires handing the pass and £10 note over.

 

[Howardh]

Strangely enought my initial application for the concessionary over 66's pass was rejected (I got a letter) without explanation, just a note explaining I had to ring a number.

I did, and found out in the past I applied and got a Get-Me-There card, which I never used, not even once.

Perhaps that should have been mentioned on the application, but no idea why having one would lead to rejection?

Anyway, after ringing them all's good and my card is in the post, and I intend to get that rail add-on immediately, pity I can't use it for the afternoon peak in Manchester.

I get the trains are full, but so are the buses at that time but I can use my card on them! Wouldn't mind if the peak restrictions were for trains leaving Manchester city centre as those going in are relatively quiet.

 

[JBuchananGB]

As the proud owner of a Lancashire CC ENCTS pass I am not eligible for either Merseytravel's pass which includes free train and ferry travel, or TfGM's £10 per annum supplement for trains and trams! Can't even ride on the Blackpool trams without paying. Jealous or what!

 

[Howardh]

As the proud owner of a Lancashire CC ENCTS pass I am not eligible for either Merseytravel's pass which includes free train and ferry travel, or TfGM's £10 per annum supplement for trains and trams! Can't even ride on the Blackpool trams without paying. Jealous or what!

There's a good point there, as more and more trams/metro systems are brought in, many may replace existing bus routes (??) so your card becomes less and less valuable! But really it shouldn't be a postcode lottery as to what you can travel on; think they should all be like the TFGM's card. Maybe a little chat with your MP?

Round here the pass expires at midnight which is no good for my 00.05 bus home, I have to pay for that. As more and more buses after midnight appear, I wrote to Bee Network to ask if the expiry time could be put back to 1am or something. I got a detailed response, but basically "no".

Here's the full reply if anyone's interested -

Thank you for contacting us regarding the validity of your English National Concessionary Travel Pass (ENCTP).

As you may be aware, Central Government decides who is eligible for concessionary travel within England in accordance with The Concessionary Bus Travel Act 2007, which supports free off-peak travel on all local buses, allowing ENCTP holders to travel between 09:30 and 23:00 Monday to Friday and all day at weekends and public holidays.

Local transport authorities can use discretionary powers to extend or offer additional concessions, however there is a significant cost to extending concessionary travel.

In Greater Manchester, the Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) decided to use its powers to extend the free travel until midnight Monday to Friday and supplement free off-peak travel on rail and Metrolink for people with disabilities. For older people, there are concessions available when using the train and tram network and we also provide concessions for people aged 18 and under.

The Mayor Andy Burnham has been working closely with Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM), bus operators and Government to introduce lower bus fares. The new fares were introduced on 4 September 2022, with single fares capped at £2 for an adult and £1 for a child. More information regarding this can be found at the following link: https://tfgm.com/get-on-board.

While there are no current plans to extend the concessionary travel options on buses in Greater Manchester beyond midnight, we are making changes to ticketing to ensure it is as affordable as possible – from lower-capped bus fares to the introduction of Bee Network products. If you would like any bespoke advice to get the best out of the products available, the Bee Network Customer team will gladly assist and can be reached on 0161 244 1000 or via hello@beentwork.com.

Please be assured that we will continue to review the overall concessionary travel offering in Greater Manchester as we focus on encouraging and supporting as many people to make use of local public transport services as possible while also safeguarding the financial sustainability of the whole system.

I trust the above proves useful and assures you that we’re providing the best possible support for our customers. If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

It does sound like Saturday 0005 and Sunday 0005 my card's valid - otherwise 0005's condisered "peak"!!

 

[Mag_seven]

Looks like the OP has had their question answered despite the brief digression onto matters Strathclyde!

 

[yorkie]

Reopened briefly for @erk to provide an update

 

[brasseagle]

@Howardh , the peak afternoon rail restrictions do not apply to your TfGM concessionary pass. (Wayfarer tickets are the same - you cannot use them before 9:30 but can use them in the afternoon/ evening peak). So go ahead and enjoy as much train travel within GM between 16:01 and 18:30 as you like!
BTW, I find the easiest way to add the tenner is just to go to any retailer that supports PayPoint - the add-on is added then and there (but you can choose a later start date if desired).

 

[erk]

Reopened briefly for @erk to provide an update

Thanks, but brasseagle has done the job for me.

Incidentally, on the last renewal I found that PayPoint shops couldn't add the add-on. In the travel shop they said something about some card readers being temperamental, but their machine was more reliable. So don't despair id a PayPoint fails.

 

[Howardh]

@Howardh , the peak afternoon rail restrictions do not apply to your TfGM concessionary pass. (Wayfarer tickets are the same - you cannot use them before 9:30 but can use them in the afternoon/ evening peak). So go ahead and enjoy as much train travel within GM between 16:01 and 18:30 as you like!
BTW, I find the easiest way to add the tenner is just to go to any retailer that supports PayPoint - the add-on is added then and there (but you can choose a later start date if desired).

I'm not disputing what you say about the afternoon train peak, but is there an official link you can provide as I may need to show that to a revenue collector? Northern have their own restrictions within GM and I can't find anything on the beenetwork site that clarified this!

 

[kkong]

I'm not disputing what you say about the afternoon train peak, but is there an official link you can provide as I may need to show that to a revenue collector? Northern have their own restrictions within GM and I can't find anything on the beenetwork site that clarified this!

TfGM Website

Costs and benefits
The pass is free, and lasts for five years.

Within Greater Manchester:

Travel for free on all buses within Greater Manchester between 9.30am and midnight, Monday to Friday, and all day at weekends and on public holidays.
You can also choose to pay £10 to add tram and train to your pass, for a year’s unlimited off-peak travel on Metrolink and trains within Greater Manchester. You can then travel on Metrolink trams and in trains after 9.30am on Monday to Friday, and all day on weekends and public holidays.
If you travel outside of these times you must pay the full adult fare.

 

[erk]

It's good to have chapter and verse on the valid times. However I have never had my use of the pass questioned. Only once has a guard scanned it to check for the presence of the add-on.

 

[Howardh]

Thanks for that, good work everyone!

 

[Howardh]

It's good to have chapter and verse on the valid times. However I have never had my use of the pass questioned. Only once has a guard scanned it to check for the presence of the add-on.

I'm off to Brighton shortly; I've had to look it up but the pass is valid all day and night up to 0359 midweek, much better than the standard 2300 limit. That's top class, and would be even better if I could pay a top-up locally to use local trains for "free".

 

[Haywain]

I've had to look it up but the pass is valid all day and night up to 0359 midweek, much better than the standard 2300 limit.

That only applies to passes issued by Brighton & Hove. Passes issued by any other English local authority can only be used between 0930 and 2300.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I'm off to Brighton shortly; I've had to look it up but the pass is valid all day and night up to 0359 midweek, much better than the standard 2300 limit. That's top class, and would be even better if I could pay a top-up locally to use local trains for "free".

You'll find that usually, where a local authority has improved times that exceed the statutory minimum, that will only apply to passes issued by that authority.
Other passes from outside the area will generally only be valid for the statutory times

 

[Howardh]

That only applies to passes issued by Brighton & Hove. Passes issued by any other English local authority can only be used between 0930 and 2300.

Right, thanks for the heads-up. You would think that, considering the sheer number of tourists, that would be clearer in their Q's and A's. Think I'll get in touch!

 

[Surreytraveller]

It says on Manchester's website when it can be used

https://tfgm.com/tickets-and-passes/discounted-and-free-travel/travel-pass-for-older-people

Throughout England:

Travel for free on all local buses between 9.30am and 11pm Monday to Friday, and all day at weekends and on public holidays.
If you travel outside of these times you must pay the full adult fare.

If you're reading the Brighton and Hove website, that's for passes issued by Brighton and Hove.
So, whilst you can use your pass in Manchester until midnight, someone from Brighton and Hove could only use theirs until 11pm

 

[Howardh]

It says on Manchester's website when it can be used

https://tfgm.com/tickets-and-passes/discounted-and-free-travel/travel-pass-for-older-people

If you're reading the Brighton and Hove website, that's for passes issued by Brighton and Hove.
So, whilst you can use your pass in Manchester until midnight, someone from Brighton and Hove could only use theirs until 11pm

It's bizarre. It's a nationwide pass (well, England) so the rules should be uniform. I suppose *sighs* it's only the same as the trains where it's a "national" service but different areas have different peaks (yes, that's YOU Northern) so I suppose I'll have to get used to it!!