SWR - Report for Prosecution

[poutine]

Hi all,

Today I was a bit stupid and paid for a Clapham Junction to Staines on the wrong railcard *sigh* and went to Sunningdale instead (by accident as I missed my stop).

At Sunningdale I paid for a ticket from Virginia Waters just to get out. It actually saved me no money. The revenue enforcer could see I hadn’t travelled from Virginia Waters so it was a problem. I co operated with them.

I have a history of good travel on SWR and have never evaded fares before.

They gave me a report for prosecution today on my way out of Sunningdale.

What is the likely outcome here?? I do not want a criminal record and want to pay my fines and be done with it. What are the chances SWR pursue this to court?

 

[Gloster]

Sunningdale is four stations beyond Staines: how did you miss so many stops?

If you bought a ticket from Virginia Water to Sunningdale, why could you not buy one from Staines?

Were you leaving the station at Sunningdale? Was Sunningdale your intended destination from the start?

 

[poutine]

Sunningdale is four stations beyond Staines: how did you miss so many stops?

If you bought a ticket from Virginia Water to Sunningdale, why could you not buy one from Staines?

Were you leaving the station at Sunningdale? Was Sunningdale your intended destination from the start?

Distracted.

Because I thought I’d be able to get out with that ticket.

My friend lives in Sunningdale so I went to his for lunch.

 

[WesternLancer]

Distracted.

Because I thought I’d be able to get out with that ticket.

My friend lives in Sunningdale so I went to his for lunch.

Don’t worry too much. You won’t be having future lunches at his majesty’s pleasure…

Did you give your correct contact address to them? You will get advice on here on how to avoid court prosecution but you will need to respond to them when they contact you

 

[poutine]

Don’t worry too much. You won’t be having future lunches at his majesty’s pleasure…

Did you give your correct contact address to them? You will get advice on here on how to avoid court prosecution but you will need to respond to them when they contact you

Honestly it was so stupid, I wasn’t even thinking, I’ve never done anything like it before which hopefully helps my case - just a mad hangover and bad decisions

I gave them all my correct details, and I’ll own it and say I was stupid, sorry and that it’s entirely on me so I’m happy to pay the punishment.

I just wonder how lenient SWR are and whether they typically pursue court. I’d rather not have my work life destroyed over something like this.

Thanks for replying

 

[Gloster]

As long as you gave the correct contact details to the Inspector you can expect a letter from SWR in anything from a couple of weeks to a few months. When it arrives post it in this thread with all identifying details (name, address, reference numbers, etc.) obscured and you will get advice as to how to answer it; the letter must be dealt with promptly once it arrives. You have every chance of getting an out of court settlement, although it is not absolutely certain, where you pay the full Anytime Single fare for the journey (Clapham Junction-Sunningdale) and the railway’s investigation costs, probably £150, but possibly less. This means that the railway then closes the case without it going to court or any form of criminal record for you.

This presumes that you do not have a long series of fare incidents and is despite you having made a number of errors that are going to be difficult to explain, both individually and collectively. Simply put: the chances of going to prison are infinitesimally small and the chances of avoiding the matter going to court are very good if you follow the advice on this forum once the letter arrives.

 

[poutine]

Thanks for the reply and the information. I agree, my actions today are going to be hard to justify and I’m not going to try, I’ll just state what happened and that I apologise.

I’d be delighted to settle outside of court, I guess it’s worrying thinking about the ‘what ifs’. Hopefully they are happy to settle.

Thanks for the help and I’ll post my letter in here once it’s received.

 

[AlterEgo]

In what way did you use the "wrong" railcard? Did you choose a 16-17 Saver or a JobCentrePlus railcard? What railcard do you hold, and do you have proof of it?

When did you purchase the Virginia Water to Sunningdale ticket? And why did you need it to get out? This station doesn't have barriers, so I assume you were met with an unexpected revenue protection presence there. How did they know you didn't board at Virginia Water?

If you bought any of these tickets online or using an app, the company will audit your ticket purchasing accounts to try to uncover other offences, so you should bear this in mind.

 

[John R]

Distracted.

Because I thought I’d be able to get out with that ticket.

My friend lives in Sunningdale so I went to his for lunch.

So you overshot by four stations, and then instead of going back you just decided to go to a friend's house for lunch?

 

[poutine]

So you overshot by four stations, and then instead of going back you just decided to go to a friend's house for lunch?

Yes, I was planning to go to Sunningdale this weekend so I went there instead of Staines. Sounds ridiculous but true. Anyhow the fact is I travelled without a ticket.

I don’t need people to judge what I’ve done, I just need some help getting a settlement out of court really

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2024 ==

In what way did you use the "wrong" railcard? Did you choose a 16-17 Saver or a JobCentrePlus railcard? What railcard do you hold, and do you have proof of it?

When did you purchase the Virginia Water to Sunningdale ticket? And why did you need it to get out? This station doesn't have barriers, so I assume you were met with an unexpected revenue protection presence there. How did they know you didn't board at Virginia Water?

If you bought any of these tickets online or using an app, the company will audit your ticket purchasing accounts to try to uncover other offences, so you should bear this in mind.

I hold 26-30. I purchased a job centre one. Mistake number 1.

It didn’t have barriers so I didn’t buy a ticket because I knew this, a revenue protection officer was there so I bought one on the spot from Virginia Waters. He scanned my ticket and knew I didn’t get on there. I don’t know how he knew but he did.

And I was being honest when I said I have a track record of honest travel with SWR, I use them every day for work on the correct railcard, so I really hope I can just pay my dues here and own the mistake.

I just want to settle outside of court, given it’s a first time offence I’m not sure whether they care about this though. It’s not like I’m a repeat offender and all my travel history will prove this.

 

[Kite159]

It didn’t have barriers so I didn’t buy a ticket because I knew this, a revenue protection officer was there so I bought one on the spot from Virginia Waters. He scanned my ticket and knew I didn’t get on there. I don’t know how he knew but he did.

Pretty sure Virginia Water has ticket barriers, so the scan would have flagged up that it hadn't been scanned to enter the station. Also, the time of purchase would have flagged up as only being purchased a minute or so before getting scanned by the RPI.

 

[poutine]

Pretty sure Virginia Water has ticket barriers, so the scan would have flagged up that it hadn't been scanned to enter the station. Also, the time of purchase would have flagged up as only being purchased a minute or so before getting scanned by the RPI.

One of these. Anyhow, the fact is I travelled for the first time on SWR without a ticket basically. Do we know SWRs stance on settlements outside of court from this forum? Or are they more likely to push for a court hearing?

I also would like to know how serious my case is in terms of getting a solicitor. I’m hoping because it’s a basic single, happened once and is CJ to Sunningdale it is resolvable.

 

[Haywain]

Sounds ridiculous but true. Anyhow the fact is I travelled without a ticket.

Souns like a poor excuse for something that you actually intended to do. I can't see a train company seeing it any other wsy.

 

[poutine]

Souns like a poor excuse for something that you actually intended to do. I can't see a train company seeing it any other wsy.

Of course that’s how they will see it, and I won’t pretend otherwise.

I’m not on this forum for people to tell me it was stupid, I’m on to hear about my chances of settling out of court. I appreciate your comment nonetheless.

 

[Kite159]

One of these. Anyhow, the fact is I travelled for the first time on SWR without a ticket basically. Do we know SWRs stance on settlements outside of court from this forum? Or are they more likely to push for a court hearing?

I also would like to know how serious my case is in terms of getting a solicitor. I’m hoping because it’s a basic single, happened once and is CJ to Sunningdale it is resolvable.

Best to wait for the letter to come. For a simple case of being caught once with no history, then it will be likely they will offer you an out-of-court settlement.

 

[Pushpit]

Of course that’s how they will see it, and I won’t pretend otherwise.

I’m not on this forum for people to tell me it was stupid, I’m on to hear about my chances of settling out of court. I appreciate your comment nonetheless.

From the evidence of other SWR cases, you should end up with an out of court settlement, so long as you actively respond to SWR's letters and co-operate with the process. You've seen some challenges in this thread, but these will be the same challenges as the SWR staff will have. I'll add another one, JobCentre Plus railcards seem to feature frequently in evasion cases, so you were certainly unlucky that the first and only occasion you evaded fares involved that card and you getting caught. So if you want to head off any red lights flickering on the desk of SWR you may want to consider a form of wording which is both honest, even if tacking away from the details, and showing remorse. But overall SWR seems to find out of court settlements easier and perhaps more profitable for them than court cases.

 

[poutine]

From the evidence of other SWR cases, you should end up with an out of court settlement, so long as you actively respond to SWR's letters and co-operate with the process. You've seen some challenges in this thread, but these will be the same challenges as the SWR staff will have. I'll add another one, JobCentre Plus railcards seem to feature frequently in evasion cases, so you were certainly unlucky that the first and only occasion you evaded fares involved that card and you getting caught. So if you want to head off any red lights flickering on the desk of SWR you may want to consider a form of wording which is both honest, even if tacking away from the details, and showing remorse. But overall SWR seems to find out of court settlements easier and perhaps more profitable for them than court cases.

Got you. I don’t see my case as unlucky, I think all evaders get caught eventually and I’m actually lucky I got caught on my first time. But yes it’s crap that it’s such a blatant case. No shying away from it, I will be open and honest with SWR and co-operate quickly, asking if I can resolve this matter quickly outside of court and that this will never happen again, as I travel with them regularly.

Thanks for the help and I hope they can show some lenience!

 

[WesternLancer]

Souns like a poor excuse for something that you actually intended to do. I can't see a train company seeing it any other wsy.

And yet if you were out in your car no one would think anything of it if you changed your mind on where to go as you drive along…

 

[John R]

Of course that’s how they will see it, and I won’t pretend otherwise.

I’m not on this forum for people to tell me it was stupid, I’m on to hear about my chances of settling out of court. I appreciate your comment nonetheless.

The reason we question posters’ accounts and highlight inconsistencies is because very often these accounts find their way into the letters sent in. If we find the story implausible, it’s very likely that the investigator reading the letter will, with the result that they will form the opinion that the traveller is not being honest with them, and thus will be much less inclined to offer a settlement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2024 ==

And yet if you were out in your car no one would think anything of it if you changed your mind on where to go as you drive along…

Probably because nobody will know.

 

[poutine]

And yet if you were out in your car no one would think anything of it if you changed your mind on where to go as you drive along…

Yup, I travel to Staines and Sunningdale all the time so to me I thought little of it.

The reason we question posters’ accounts and highlight inconsistencies is because very often these accounts find their way into the letters sent in. If we find the story implausible, it’s very likely that the investigator reading the letter will, with the result that they will form the opinion that the traveller is not being honest with them, and thus will be much less inclined to offer a settlement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2024 ==


Probably because nobody will know.

Fair enough that makes more sense! What would you suggest I say in the letter then? Shall I just say it was a daft decision to not bother getting a ticket to Sunningdale and now I realise this error? Any advice would be great, thanks

 

[furlong]

Any excuse you give will look stupid so don't waste your time attempting to justify what you did to them. Simply apologise for your actions.

 

[John R]

Yup, I travel to Staines and Sunningdale all the time so to me I thought little of it.

Fair enough that makes more sense! What would you suggest I say in the letter then? Shall I just say it was a daft decision to not bother getting a ticket to Sunningdale and now I realise this error? Any advice would be great, thanks

I would apologise for not having a ticket for your full journey and for using an incorrect railcard for the ticket you held, without going into any “story” about missing your stop etc etc.

And then promise to always ensure you have the correct ticket purchased before you travel, and finally ask very nicely if they would be willing to offer you an out of court settlement.

Once we see the letter we can give more tailored advice of course.

 

[WesternLancer]

Probably because nobody will know.

Indeed. But my point is that it’s not unusual to change your mind when out and about as to where you might go eg if you were walking, cycling or driving. So I mean it’s not that implausible that a rail passenger might do the same.

The only difference of course is that you need a plan for your ticket when on a train. Of course a fully contactless touch on / off ticket system would permit that. But I don’t want to go off topic.

 

[Hadders]

Just to add to the advice given by forum members but if SWR check your ticket purchasing history will it show other purchases of tickets with a Job Centre Plus Railcard applied? If so, SWR will want to ask you about these and factor the cost of these tickets into a settlement offer.

 

[poutine]

Just to add to the advice given by forum members but if SWR check your ticket purchasing history will it show other purchases of tickets with a Job Centre Plus Railcard applied? If so, SWR will want to ask you about these and factor the cost of these tickets into a settlement offer.

Nope, it will show only correct journeys on the correct railcard. I travel with them for work and have always used the proper railcard. This is literally the first time I chanced it and got caught.

 

[Hadders]

Nope, it will show only correct journeys on the correct railcard. I travel with them for work and have always used the proper railcard. This is literally the first time I chanced it and got caught.

Thanks for confirming. That should make things more straightforward. What will happen next is SWR will write to you saying that your case has been provisionally authgorised for prosecution but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. If you send a short, concise reply mentioning the following points then I'd expect you to be offered an out fo court settlement.

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Expect a settlement to be the cost of the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate with ni credit given for the tickets you did purchase. In addition you will have to pay an admin fee, typically £150.

When it arrives, post a copy of SWR's letter in this thread along with your proposed reply and forum members will proof read it for you. Do redact any personal details before uploading.

 

[poutine]

Hi everyone, I received the first letter from SWR today. Didn't even need to reply and they offered a settlement straight away. Very lucky.

I've gone on the SWR website and they've asked for my 'Notice Number' which I cant seem to find? If anyone can help around this it would be appreciated!

 

[janb]

Is the Notice Number the Ref: that you have obscured below your name?

 

[poutine]

Is the Notice Number the Ref: that you have obscured below your name?

Ah, there is a REF which starts with SWREMG001XXXXXX - is it just the numbers after SWREMG?

 

[janb]

Ah, there is a REF which starts with SWREMG001XXXXXX - is it just the numbers after SWREMG?

If it was me I'd try the full thing, then if that didn't work start lopping bits off such as the SWREMG to see if there was a combination that worked.