GTR Shortage of Train Crew

[DJ_K666]

Drivers can always be relied upon to moan about everything. They’re in a league of their own, even amongst rail staff !

They're on a par with bus drivers then. We moan a heck of a lot.

 

[Harpo]

They're on a par with bus drivers then. We moan a heck of a lot.

But you have the great British public to deal with. Not something I'd fancy!

 

[Goldfish62]

Drivers can always be relied upon to moan about everything. They’re in a league of their own, even amongst rail staff !

A coupe of friends of mine who are guards have much to say on the subject of drivers moaning!

 

[Surreytraveller]

On Saturday afternoon - Thameslink was only service from Redhill to Gatwick as GWR had engineering works. From 2pm to 5pm out of 12 train timetabled to call at Redhill, only 3 ran (1 very late), of the cancelled it was split around 50/50 between cancelled for staff shortages and cancelled by way of Quarry Line (i.e. missed Redhill).

75% cancellation rate and platforms full of passengers - many who will now use a car next time.

There's plenty of buses from Redhill to Gatwick

 

[dk1]

Drivers can always be relied upon to moan about everything. They’re in a league of their own, even amongst rail staff !

One of our duty traincrew managers always referred to us group of drivers as a ‘whinge’

 

[43066]

One of our duty traincrew managers always referred to us group of drivers as a ‘whinge’

If we can have a flock of geese and a murder of crows, why not have a whinge of train drivers!?

I love it .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2024 ==

A coupe of friends of mine who are guards have much to say on the subject of drivers moaning!

It just never, ever stops…

 

[dk1]

If we can have a flock of geese and a murder of crows, why not have a whinge of train drivers!?

I love it .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2024 ==

Me too!! Was very funny.

 

[DJ_K666]

But you have the great British public to deal with. Not something I'd fancy!

Ah it can be fun if you have a knack for it. The key is always have a ready answer. But yes it is a real eye opener as to how stupid people can be.

And yes bus drivers moan about everything

 

[Elybob]

On Saturday afternoon - Thameslink was only service from Redhill to Gatwick as GWR had engineering works. From 2pm to 5pm out of 12 train timetabled to call at Redhill, only 3 ran (1 very late), of the cancelled it was split around 50/50 between cancelled for staff shortages and cancelled by way of Quarry Line (i.e. missed Redhill).

75% cancellation rate and platforms full of passengers - many who will now use a car next time.

Despicable mismanagement, this should be a scandal and GTR should be stripped of duties

But we just shrug our shoulders and accept s*** service in this country nowadays

 

[Minstral25]

There's plenty of buses from Redhill to Gatwick

Sure it's not meant but you sound a lot like GTR - oh catch a bus instead

Train 8-12 mins
Car 10-12 mins
Bus 35-40 mins

Guess there are plenty of buses but they travel round East Surrey Hospital & Horley so take a lot longer.
Plus there is also long walk round Gatwick Airport to get from bus stop on A23 to Platform for onward train.

 

[Bikeman78]

So, does a TOC pay for more spare drivers and risk the wrath of the media moaning about people being paid to often do absolutely nothing?

How often do spare crew do absolutely nothing? I don't think they will very often? Plenty of broken trains to move around and also spare crew help during disruption.

 

[jon0844]

How often do spare crew do absolutely nothing? I don't think they will very often? Plenty of broken trains to move around and also spare crew help during disruption.

Sure but the general public will always moan.

 

[43066]

How often do spare crew do absolutely nothing? I don't think they will very often? Plenty of broken trains to move around and also spare crew help during disruption.

Rarely in recent times, that’s for sure! Being spare also isn’t really “doing nothing”, as it involves physically attending work, often at strange times of the day, with all the usual restrictions (the need to be well rested, fit for duty, free of alcohol etc.)

Sure but the general public will always moan.

The general public won’t have a clue what “spare” means, and generally won’t have any knowledge of or interest in the intricacies of traincrew rostering. They will moan about cancelled trains due to lack of drivers, however.

 

[DarloRich]

The general public won’t have a clue what “spare” means, and won’t have any interest in traincrew rostering. They will moan about cancelled trains due to lack of drivers, however.

they ( or at least the hard of thinking) will moan like chuff when the Daily Mail splashes LAZY FAT CAT UNION SCUM TRAIN DIRVERS SIT AROUND ALL DAY WATCHING NETFLIX EARNING £100K

OBVIOUSLY I am being factious. However, one of the problems with the public sector is the Daily Mail headline hammering. it drives a lot of odd behaviours.

 

[43066]

they ( or at least the hard of thinking) will moan like chuff when the Daily Mail splashes LAZY FAT CAT UNION SCUM TRAIN DIRVERS SIT AROUND ALL DAY WATCHING NETFLIX EARNING £100K

Well yes, but they already think that anyway .

 

[jon0844]

Nigel Farage (bear with me, this isn't off topic - honest!) was recently ranting about a foreign born criminal released from jail and how he needed to be deported. Then it transpired the offender HAD already been deported after release (some time ago, and one wonders how Nigel hadn't managed to check this) and the newspaper had carefully added in 'deported at the tax payers' expense' to further ruffle feathers.

It was of course the Daily Mail, and they knew exactly what they were doing. Demand something happens and get everyone angry, then when you reveal that thing was done as people demanded, find another way to attack.

 

[DarloRich]

It was of course the Daily Mail, and they knew exactly what they were doing. Demand something happens and get everyone angry, then when you reveal that thing was done as people demanded, find another way to attack.

Same thing as the recent LABOUR PLAN TO SHUT PUBS which they said in the final paragraph was not actually a plan or based on any reality!

They know what they are doing and they know the hard of thinking will lap it up.

 

[43066]

Nigel Farage (bear with me, this isn't off topic - honest!) was recently ranting about a foreign born criminal released from jail and how he needed to be deported. Then it transpired the offender HAD already been deported after release (some time ago, and one wonders how Nigel hadn't managed to check this) and the newspaper had carefully added in 'deported at the tax payers' expense' to further ruffle feathers.

It was of course the Daily Mail, and they knew exactly what they were doing. Demand something happens and get everyone angry, then when you reveal that thing was done as people demanded, find another way to attack.

I do absolutely take the point that this stuff can be twisted. However generally the railway only makes it into the Daily Heil’s attentions when there are strikes (evil unions etc.), or where the performance of parts of it are bad enough to register on a nationally newsworthy level.

A modest increase in headcount to increase spare coverage, or to bring Sundays inside the week, would improve performance and would probably be below the radar for The Fail et al, on all but the slowest news day.

(Or maybe I’m just biased, and too keen to get back to watching Netflix on spare shifts ).

 

[Bikeman78]

Rarely in recent times, that’s for sure! Being spare also isn’t really “doing nothing”, as it involves physically attending work, often at strange times of the day, with all the usual restrictions (the need to be well rested, fit for duty, free of alcohol etc.)

I've never suggested that spare equals doing nothing, that's for sure. No doubt spare turns at EMR will be put to good use learning the class 810s.

The general public won’t have a clue what “spare” means, and generally won’t have any knowledge of or interest in the intricacies of traincrew rostering. They will moan about cancelled trains due to lack of drivers, however.

Most of my non railway friends are familiar with the concept but, as you suggest, would far rather have an excess of crew than cancelled trains.

 

[baz962]

I do absolutely take the point that this stuff can be twisted. However generally the railway only makes it into the Daily Heil’s attentions when there are strikes (evil unions etc.), or where the performance of parts of it are bad enough to register on a nationally newsworthy level.

A modest increase in headcount to increase spare coverage, or to bring Sundays inside the week, would improve performance and would probably be below the radar for The Fail et al, on all but the slowest news day.

(Or maybe I’m just biased, and too keen to get back to watching Netflix on spare shifts ).

I knew you would hope to get out of work. Lazy sod.

 

[gm671]

How often do spare crew do absolutely nothing? I don't think they will very often? Plenty of broken trains to move around and also spare crew help during disruption.

I think I've sat spare once in the last six years. This does vary slightly depot to depot but it's a rarity. There are simply nowhere near enough drivers since we were restricted to one line of route/traction dependent on depot in 2018 - a monumental cock up by GTR which management won't address as it would involve admitting they were wrong

 

[Bikeman78]

I think I've sat spare once in the last six years. This does vary slightly depot to depot but it's a rarity. There are simply nowhere near enough drivers since we were restricted to one line of route/traction dependent on depot in 2018 - a monumental cock up by GTR which management won't address as it would involve admitting they were wrong

That's certainly the impression I have. For example, why split Horsham in two? If you have one pool of drivers that sign both 377s and 700s then control have more options when it goes wrong.

 

[Robcuk]

I think I've sat spare once in the last six years. This does vary slightly depot to depot but it's a rarity. There are simply nowhere near enough drivers since we were restricted to one line of route/traction dependent on depot in 2018 - a monumental cock up by GTR which management won't address as it would involve admitting they were wrong

Unbelievable decision that! After 5 years of loops i was burned out!! As mentioned if you work your rostered Sunday then maybe an additional restday youd be driving 16 loops on the bounce with 800 stops without a day off - such a horrid thought. When i was there every diagram was the same so no change of scenery no change of stopping pattern and alot of the time youre following trains with a higher priority.

 

[Surreytraveller]

That's certainly the impression I have. For example, why split Horsham in two? If you have one pool of drivers that sign both 377s and 700s then control have more options when it goes wrong.

Can you imagine how disruption would spread from Thameslink to Southern and vice versa if drivers did both brands?

 

[Bikeman78]

Can you imagine how disruption would spread from Thameslink to Southern and vice versa if drivers did both brands?

You have misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that a driver should work both during one shift.

 

[Surreytraveller]

You have misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that a driver should work both during one shift.

But that's what would happen. Drivers work different routes now during one shift. That's why disruption is unmanageable.
The more routes drivers sign, the more disruption spreads.
Management need to understand, in order to keep disruption manageable and to stop it spreading, crews and stock need to stick to lines of route in a shift.

 

[bahnause]

But that's what would happen. Drivers work different routes now during one shift. That's why disruption is unmanageable.
The more routes drivers sign, the more disruption spreads.
Management need to understand, in order to keep disruption manageable and to stop it spreading, crews and stock need to stick to lines of route in a shift.

This concept already failed multiple times, but it seems to reappear every five years. Recovery didn’t get easier, it got way harder due to the lack of flexibility. And so did planning. And driver changed TOC left, right and center due to the boredom. The upper management now insists on introducing more flexibility, not less. Which is what the frontline staff was asking for.

 

[Surreytraveller]

This concept already failed multiple times, but it seems to reappear every five years. Recovery didn’t get easier, it got way harder due to the lack of flexibility. And so did planning. And driver changed TOC left, right and center due to the boredom. The upper management now insists on introducing more flexibility, not less. Which is what the frontline staff was asking for.

Frontline staff had better get used to regularly finishing late, then.
Could you imagine if London Underground was run like GTR? You'd have a Victoria Line driver get off at Oxford Circus to go and relieve a Central Line train. On the Underground, disruption is confined to the line it occurs on. On National Rail, it spreads to other areas due to the flexibility of train crew rostering.

 

[GN Boy]

Unbelievable decision that! After 5 years of loops i was burned out!! As mentioned if you work your rostered Sunday then maybe an additional restday youd be driving 16 loops on the bounce with 1600 stops without a day off - such a horrid thought. When i was there every diagram was the same so no change of scenery no change of stopping pattern and alot of the time youre following trains with a higher priority.

That sounds horrific! I’m very lucky to be based at a GTR depot with multiple traction and routes and I pray that it stays that way too!

 

[43066]

Frontline staff had better get used to regularly finishing late, then.
Could you imagine if London Underground was run like GTR? You'd have a Victoria Line driver get off at Oxford Circus to go and relieve a Central Line train. On the Underground, disruption is confined to the line it occurs on. On National Rail, it spreads to other areas due to the flexibility of train crew rostering.

Surely it’s the other way around. Route specific depot and traction knowledge leads to less flexibility, and means you have drivers unable to cross cover other depots’ work.

The other side of that coin, and the reason big route and traction cards aren’t favoured, is simply because of the cost of maintaining them.

The reason disruption spreads around is much more because GTR intersects with other major routes, so problems on the ECML/MML will quickly filter through to the BML, and vice versa.