Hulley's of Baslow (Defunct)

[Goldfish62]

I am not an accountant, but here goes:

The abbreviated accounts show two balance sheets.

In the absence of any dividends, the increase in "Profit and Loss Reserves" between the two balance sheets dates will be the net profit achieved over that period.

For Henry Hulley & Sons Limited (Company number 02280297), the "Profit and Loss Reserves" figure was smaller (Minus £416,642) at the end of 2023 than it was at the start of 2023 (Minus £308,171). The reduction of £108,471 will be the net loss for the year 2023, which is not required to be made explicit in the public copy of the accounts.

For (partial) insight into sources of funds, you need to dig around in the Notes.

Note 6, on "Creditors: amounts falling due within one year" says "Included in other creditors is an amount of £167,987 that has been secured on the assets of the company (2022 - £148,887)"

Note 7, on "Creditors: amounts falling due after one year", says "Included in other creditors is an amount of £219,938 that has been secured on the assets of the company (2022 - £148,887)"

It seems quite a coincidence that at the end of 2022, there should have been be exactly equal amounts of £148,887 secured with a within-one-year due date, and £148,887 with a beyond-one-year due date. The previous accounts seem to give no figures for these, so I can't see how to check this. If the identical figures are indeed just a coincidence (rather than a transcription error), then the two increases in secured creditors adds to £90,151. The extent of personal guarantees is shown as reducing over the year by £25,590.

Many thanks for that!

 

[Teapot42]

I don't know a lot about business, but presumably had they not splashed out on brand new ADLs they'd be £300-400k in the up?

Speaking of which, I thought there were meant to be 4, but only 3 are in service. Why?

From what I've gleaned, the ADLs are on a 4 year lease. The current no 1 (YX23OTB) is going back when the 4th arrives, unsure if that was always the plan (it never got painted) or part of the deal. Also, no 2 (YX20OHS) went back to ADL with a turbo failure.

 

[Cesarcollie]

I don't know a lot about business, but presumably had they not splashed out on brand new ADLs they'd be £300-400k in the up?

Speaking of which, I thought there were meant to be 4, but only 3 are in service. Why?

No. Capital expenditure doesn’t hit the Profit & Loss account in one go. Whether they paid cash (very unlikely) or financed them, the vehicles will be allocated a ‘book life’ of (circa) 15 years for a decker. Then 1/15th of the price will be shown as ‘depreciation’ each year in the P & L. If financed, there will also be an entry on the ‘interest’ line which will reflect the interest paid each year on the capital sum. If on operating lease, the treatment is slightly different, as ownership remains with the financing company so the annual sum is effectively a rental charge combining depreciation and interest. So buying new buses will hit profits, as depreciation and interest will be higher (less probably some saving in maintenance), but not by the whole cost of the vehicle in one year.

 

[SLC001]

By accident I get to look at Hulleys Facebook page and nearly every day a service doesn't run for operational reasons. Chesterfield to Bakewell for example, 1 journey. This cannot be good for customers and profitability. It is also interesting that there are other issues such as parked cars which halted services. Another example was scaffolding that had been erected which obstructed the roadway! This amused me as a similar thing happened at Castleton, it effectively introduced a one way system in the main street for weeks in high season. The congestion caused havoc, visitors were very angry often taking it out on the locals, and local traders lost a huge amount of business i.e. money. Some even shut for the day.
The trials of rural communities and it surprises me that Hulleys survive.

 

[Teapot42]

By accident I get to look at Hulleys Facebook page and nearly every day a service doesn't run for operational reasons. Chesterfield to Bakewell for example, 1 journey. This cannot be good for customers and profitability.

I almost wonder if being honest and informative to customers is hurting their image more than helping. Stagecoach Chesterfield have many more delays and cancellations but these don't get reported. If you look in the Stagecoach Yorkshire twitter you'd think Chesterfield was perfect as they very rarely get a mention, but that's far from the case.

Personally, I'd prefer to know my bus isn't coming so I can make alternative arrangements, but to the outside world it's easy to twist that to claim they run services badly.

 

[Trainman40083]

I almost wonder if being honest and informative to customers is hurting their image more than helping. Stagecoach Chesterfield have many more delays and cancellations but these don't get reported. If you look in the Stagecoach Yorkshire twitter you'd think Chesterfield was perfect as they very rarely get a mention, but that's far from the case.

Personally, I'd prefer to know my bus isn't coming so I can make alternative arrangements, but to the outside world it's easy to twist that to claim they run services badly.

I worked in business for many years, a top 100 company. Our policy was never lie to your customers, else you won't have any when they find out they have been lied to. Customers value honesty and are more understanding. I love good news (say bus is running on time, or on the way). Notification in a timely manner that is bad (bus cancelled) is not ideal , but you can change your plans. No information is the worst, because you cannot plan. Hulleys are to be commended for honesty. How many passengers have walked away from Stagecoach? Then you get Arriva who have said for four years or more "it is down to operational difficulties". Well, they sure aren't solving them then.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I almost wonder if being honest and informative to customers is hurting their image more than helping. Stagecoach Chesterfield have many more delays and cancellations but these don't get reported.

Delays and cancellations on high frequency routes are different to delays and cancellations on low frequency routes. A cancellation on a route with 6bph is annoying. A cancellation on a route with 1bph is something else entirely.

It's good to see that Hulley's are being more communicative. I spent a day in the Peak District back in the spring and, of the two Hulley's buses I was intending to catch, neither turned up. It seems from some internet sleuthing that this was because of roadworks overrunning on the A57 by Ladybower but it would have been nice of Hulley's to say this.

 

[SLC001]

I agree that it is better to inform customers than not. Operational issues is not helpful and one then suspects a broken bus or staff shortages.
I am not familiar with local Stagecoach issues and wouldn't want to criticise Hulleys out of context. Clearly this is a national problem.
How Hulleys get the staff in an area where only wealthier people can afford to live intrigues me. Staff in Bakewell shops commute some distance to work.

 

[Teapot42]

Delays and cancellations on high frequency routes are different to delays and cancellations on low frequency routes. A cancellation on a route with 6bph is annoying. A cancellation on a route with 1bph is something else entirely.

The delays and cancellations on Stagecoach which affect us most are on a 1bph route. Well, I say delays and cancellations, according to their MD I'm lying about that, despite standing at a stop for buses that don't arrive, and watching them being turned early on the tracker.

It's good to see that Hulley's are being more communicative. I spent a day in the Peak District back in the spring and, of the two Hulley's buses I was intending to catch, neither turned up. It seems from some internet sleuthing that this was because of roadworks overrunning on the A57 by Ladybower but it would have been nice of Hulley's to say this.

They really aren't helped by poor comms from the council. It seems common here for roadworks to go on one.network at the last minute, or be altered or just over-run and no-one bothers to update the site. That section of the A57 is also a poor signal area so it's hard for the drivers to get messages through or for the delays to be seen on the tracker.

 

[Teapot42]

There are a few Hulleys changes upcoming from October 27th.

The Sunday 257c is dropping the short (Castleton only) runs, possibly just for the winter period.

The 55 is being extended to the East Midlands outlet.

I'm hopeful the 257c will be expanded again come the Spring, but it's a difficult market to serve as it's very weather dependent. As for the 55, it's great to have a link to McArthur Glen, but I can't help but think a direct bus would take half the time and be far more attractive. You can get from Chesterfield to Meadowhall in less time and there is far more there...

 

[JD2168]

There are a few Hulleys changes upcoming from October 27th.

The Sunday 257c is dropping the short (Castleton only) runs, possibly just for the winter period.

The 55 is being extended to the East Midlands outlet.

I'm hopeful the 257c will be expanded again come the Spring, but it's a difficult market to serve as it's very weather dependent. As for the 55, it's great to have a link to McArthur Glen, but I can't help but think a direct bus would take half the time and be far more attractive. You can get from Chesterfield to Meadowhall in less time and there is far more there...

Didn’t Stagecoach extend a number of services including the 54 to East Midlands Designer Outlet, didn’t seem to last long & disappeared after COVID.

 

[Teapot42]

Didn’t Stagecoach extend a number of services including the 54 to East Midlands Designer Outlet, didn’t seem to last long & disappeared after COVID.

I can't recall which was extended, but yes, there was a direct bus to Chesterfield previously, plus the short-lived X1 Chesterfield to Nottingham also called there.

 

[daodao]

There are a few Hulleys changes upcoming from October 27th.

The Sunday 257c is dropping the short (Castleton only) runs, possibly just for the winter period.

The 55 is being extended to the East Midlands outlet.

I'm hopeful the 257c will be expanded again come the Spring, but it's a difficult market to serve as it's very weather dependent. As for the 55, it's great to have a link to McArthur Glen, but I can't help but think a direct bus would take half the time and be far more attractive. You can get from Chesterfield to Meadowhall in less time and there is far more there...

Sunday route 257c could be run more economically with 2 rather than 3 buses in winter if it ran direct from Chapel-en-le-Frith to Hayfield (and thence to Glossop) and if only selected journeys ran via Fairholmes (2 morning journeys from Sheffield at 0825 and 1025; 2 afternoon journeys from Fairholmes to Sheffield at 1529 and 1729).

 

[Teapot42]

Sunday route 257c could be run more economically with 2 rather than 3 buses in winter if it ran direct from Chapel-en-le-Frith to Hayfield (and thence to Glossop) and if only selected journeys ran via Fairholmes (2 morning journeys from Sheffield at 0825 and 1025; 2 afternoon journeys from Fairholmes to Sheffield at 1529 and 1729).

Unfortunately I don't think that is possible. A while back Hulleys got the contract to run the Sunday 61, then not long after extended / re-routed the 257 as a joined-up service. As such, the section between Chapel and Hayfield is in effect the 61 they are contracted by the council to run.

You are also assuming Sheffield is the only source of traffic for Fairholmes. I actually wonder if a Bakewell to Fairholmes service, timed to connect with the 257, wouldn't be a better option than adding something like a 20 minute diversion to an already long run. During the summer that could be extended to Sheffield to give the hourly service, and could also run via Chatsworth giving a link for anyone staying in the Hope Valley to visit there.

 

[m79900]

I've noticed recently that Hulleys have been tying laminated paper timetables to bus stops. Is there a specific reason for this?

 

[Welshman]

So would-be passengers can know the times of the buses?

 

[Trainman40083]

I've noticed recently that Hulleys have been tying laminated paper timetables to bus stops. Is there a specific reason for this?

At one time, they had a Bustimes link on their website

 

[Teapot42]

I've noticed recently that Hulleys have been tying laminated paper timetables to bus stops. Is there a specific reason for this?

From chatting to drivers I believe they are struggling to get the timetable cases updated via official routes, so have come to an agreement with the council that they can do it themselves.

They did get fined for daring to tell passengers what the timetable was earlier this year.

 

[py_megapixel]

They did get fined for daring to tell passengers what the timetable was earlier this year.

Could you expand? I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here.

 

[Teapot42]

Could you expand? I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here.

My understanding is that they put some information up with details of the 257C (the Sunday variant to Glossop), but didn't get permission from Derbyshire County Council first. The fact that the council / their contractor had failed to update the timetable cases for a very long period of time didn't seem to matter, the fact that Hulleys tried to inform passengers of the actual times without permission was enough for the council to fine them.

While strictly speaking they were in the wrong, you'd have thought that actually providing useful information to customers would be enough for the council to overlook it.

 

[Hyebone]

The fact remains that Derbyshire County Council are absolutely abysmal at providing accurate roadside information. From computer generated timetables with a key the length of the alphabet, to redoing stop flags in the town centre showing service numbers 2 weeks before major service changes. (They even put the number 5 on stop S2 on Elder Way, a stop the 5 hadn't served in nearly a year!)

Hilariously, all the stops round Newbold that have had the number 10 displayed for all 5 years of its absence are accurate once again...

 

[Starmill]

Presumably someone was overzealous in issuing a fixed penalty for "fly tipping" or something over the notices stuck to the bus stops.

 

[Trainman40083]

The fact remains that Derbyshire County Council are absolutely abysmal at providing accurate roadside information. From computer generated timetables with a key the length of the alphabet, to redoing stop flags in the town centre showing service numbers 2 weeks before major service changes. (They even put the number 5 on stop S2 on Elder Way, a stop the 5 hadn't served in nearly a year!)

Hilariously, all the stops round Newbold that have had the number 10 displayed for all 5 years of its absence are accurate once again...

All that BSIP money, and they can't even get the basics right.

 

[Teapot42]

Presumably someone was overzealous in issuing a fixed penalty for "fly tipping" or something over the notices stuck to the bus stops.

You do need authorisation, to prevent anyone sticking any old rubbish up. The problem is rather than sorting the cause of the problem, they go after the bus company trying to promote their services and give customers accurate information.

It's notable that Wellglade companies have accurate and up to date information on stops they serve - but only for their services - plus often have their own timetable cases and flags. No prizes for guessing who has the contract to maintain timetable cases in much of Derbyshire.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2024 ==

The fact remains that Derbyshire County Council are absolutely abysmal at providing accurate roadside information. From computer generated timetables with a key the length of the alphabet, to redoing stop flags in the town centre showing service numbers 2 weeks before major service changes. (They even put the number 5 on stop S2 on Elder Way, a stop the 5 hadn't served in nearly a year!)

Hilariously, all the stops round Newbold that have had the number 10 displayed for all 5 years of its absence are accurate once again...

The map on New Beetwell Street is a very long time out of date. I'm pretty sure some of the services shown haven't run while I've lived in Chesterfield, and I moved there over a decade ago.

While it's no longer a problem, when the 90/90a alternately only went to Walton Shops the real-time board just showed 'Walton' regardless of the final destination, which was rather useless. There are also plenty of flags for stops that are no longer served - some of which haven't been served this century - which still have the appearance of being active.

But hey, if the councillor responsible for transport can get her photo in the local rag over something or other they seem happy enough.

 

[Mwanesh]

The fact remains that Derbyshire County Council are absolutely abysmal at providing accurate roadside information. From computer generated timetables with a key the length of the alphabet, to redoing stop flags in the town centre showing service numbers 2 weeks before major service changes. (They even put the number 5 on stop S2 on Elder Way, a stop the 5 hadn't served in nearly a year!)

Hilariously, all the stops round Newbold that have had the number 10 displayed for all 5 years of its absence are accurate once again...

Some of the stops in Barlborough still have First signage on them

 

[m79900]

MMCs 1 and 7530 have reportedly been sent back to the dealer. 7530 surprises me. Do they have a surplus of vehicles, or are Hulleys struggling financially? (or is it just a bustimes error?)

 

[liamf656]

MMCs 1 and 7530 have reportedly been sent back to the dealer. 7530 surprises me. Do they have a surplus of vehicles, or are Hulleys struggling financially? (or is it just a bustimes error?)

I wouldn't trust bustimes with anything. I'd wait for other sources of info

 

[zkyx02]

MMCs 1 and 7530 have reportedly been sent back to the dealer. 7530 surprises me. Do they have a surplus of vehicles, or are Hulleys struggling financially? (or is it just a bustimes error?)

All ADLs are being sent back due to issues hulleys have had, a staff member provided proof on the discord.

 

[Trainman40083]

All ADLs are being sent back due to issues hulleys have had, a staff member provided proof on the discord.

Seems strange. You'd have thought ADL would fix them, if, of course, that is the reason.

 

[Scotrail88]

Seems strange. You'd have thought ADL would fix them, if, of course, that is the reason.

That tweet isn’t traceable and nothing to say of issue.
As you say seems strange.

Likely these are through a rental company so might be something with that