Please help explaining Sweden bus / rail deregulation to me.

[miklcct]

Rail and buses in Sweden are deregulated. In the case of rail, state and private operators compete against each other, while on roads, commercial bus traffic has been allowed since 2012.

Can anyone explain to be how it's different from the UK system, and why Sweden's rail system didn't deteriorate with expensive fare and poor service like the UK's counterpart. Also, despite deregulation I still see municipal regional bus operators everywhere in Sweden, can anyone explain to me why the UK is left with such a fragmented bus service with commercial companies running buses without a coherent network.

 

[Alfonso]

A near-universal ticket acceptance system was developed so most tickets were valid on all operators services to make things simple for passengers, service frequencies were increased on many routes. Often the prestige fastest trains of the day were sacrificed in order to produce a more clockface type timetable. Oh hang on, that's Britain.

 

[dutchflyer]

The local/regional buses and trains, organised by the ´Län´=province (county) are not deregularized at all and given out in contracts-as they make big losses (as in income by sales vs all costs). IN a few cases if the city wanted more as what the Län would offer, they would skip in and pay some more. What was degularized back then was that the former everywhere state-run SJ (incl bus) would not be given automatically the contract. THese all also have their own fare-systems-as so often has been said, very much lookalike to the GB former PTEś. Only-very much comparable to GB is that long-distance ´coach´es (we call it all bus here) were deregularized. Then soon after MegaBus, from GB, stepped in and tried out.

 

[miklcct]

The local/regional buses and trains, organised by the ´Län´=province (county) are not deregularized at all and given out in contracts-as they make big losses (as in income by sales vs all costs). IN a few cases if the city wanted more as what the Län would offer, they would skip in and pay some more. What was degularized back then was that the former everywhere state-run SJ (incl bus) would not be given automatically the contract. THese all also have their own fare-systems-as so often has been said, very much lookalike to the GB former PTEś. Only-very much comparable to GB is that long-distance ´coach´es (we call it all bus here) were deregularized. Then soon after MegaBus, from GB, stepped in and tried out.

I have read that the reason Västtrafik stopping running buses from Gothenburg to Landvetter Airport was deregulation, which happened around 2012 with the withdrawal a few years later (prior to that, it ran the regional express buses via the airport). It was not a long distance service, but a regional service instead, leaving the local residents at Landvetter having no public transport to access the airport, until a few years afterwards when the bus 612 was introduced.

The coach services were deregulated much earlier than that.

Can anyone explain if the above is actually true? Why could Västtrafik get rid of the responsibility to run buses between the airport and Landvetter town?

 

[JonasB]

I can't exactly tell you why the service is not as poor as the UK, but there are some major differences. Deregulation of the rails has happened gradually, it started in the late 80s when the infrastructure division of Statens Järnvägar was split in to a separate agency, Banverket. And in the early 90's SJ lost parts of it's monopoly. The rail system has since then been more and more deregulated and in 2002 SJ was converted from a government agency to a company. The state still owns all the shares, but SJ still exists and runs most of the long distance trains but does not have a monopoly anymore. Unlike in the UK where BR was split up. But I have the impression that the companies in the UK are still very much under political control as there are franchise contracts that regulate what trains they have to run and so on. SJ basically acts as an open access operator that runs trains that are profitable. National routes that are deemed important but not profitable are tendered as PSO routes, currently that is a couple of night trains and some interregional trains. Deregulation of long distance buses also means that SJ has some competition even where there no other train operators

Local transport is operated by the regions (län). Every region is required to have a regional transport authority that work pretty similar to TfL. I.e. they set the fares, schedules and routes. But hire other companies to run the actual trains, buses and other forms of transportation. Routes that are not very profitable. Some are, but it's hard for private companies to compete since the systems are usually pretty well run. And subsidised. The reasoning behind that it that it can be cheaper in the long run to pay for a bus route than to not do it. But the market is not regulated, anyone can buy a bus and start a competing company. But the main difference here is that I think local councils are not allowed to run public transportation in the UK apart from London and Manchester? Rail deregulation also lead to an explosion of local and regional trains all over the country in the 90s. Before that SJ had a monopoly and could charge the local transport authorities whatever they wanted to runs trains. That lead to the situation where local trains more or less only existed around Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. While in other parts of the countries local buses ran parallell to underused rail lines that only saw a few intercity trains and some freight trains per day. But due to deregulation it became a lot cheaper for the regional transport authorities to operate trains.

 

[The exile]

Why could Västtrafik get rid of the responsibility to run buses between the airport and Landvetter town?

As a generalised point the keyword in that sentence is “responsibility”. In a non-commercial situation someone has to decide whether or not that responsibility exists (and what counts as “fulfilling it”). Did that responsibility exist or is it just your opinion that it should have done?

 

[johncrossley]

Local transport is operated by the regions (län). Every region is required to have a regional transport authority that work pretty similar to TfL. I.e. they set the fares, schedules and routes. But hire other companies to run the actual trains, buses and other forms of transportation. Routes that are not very profitable. Some are, but it's hard for private companies to compete since the systems are usually pretty well run. And subsidised. The reasoning behind that it that it can be cheaper in the long run to pay for a bus route than to not do it. But the market is not regulated, anyone can buy a bus and start a competing company. But the main difference here is that I think local councils are not allowed to run public transportation in the UK apart from London and Manchester? Rail deregulation also lead to an explosion of local and regional trains all over the country in the 90s. Before that SJ had a monopoly and could charge the local transport authorities whatever they wanted to runs trains. That lead to the situation where local trains more or less only existed around Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. While in other parts of the countries local buses ran parallell to underused rail lines that only saw a few intercity trains and some freight trains per day. But due to deregulation it became a lot cheaper for the regional transport authorities to operate trains.

So for local and regional buses, "deregulation" isn't really the right word. In UK speak this sounds very much like franchising or tendering. Some people in the UK call this "regulation" (or "reregulation" in places like Manchester where there was deregulation), so in actual fact the opposite of deregulation.

Deregulation in long distance coaches has become the norm across most of Europe.

 

[miklcct]

So for local and regional buses, "deregulation" isn't really the right word. In UK speak this sounds very much like franchising or tendering. Some people in the UK call this "regulation" (or "reregulation" in places like Manchester where there was deregulation), so in actual fact the opposite of deregulation.

Deregulation in long distance coaches has become the norm across most of Europe.

However as mentioned above anyone can buy a bus and operate a local route there, which you can't do in London. TfL strictly controls how commercial buses operate within Greater London, while outside franchised areas where buses are deregulated, the local authority has no power to control or forbid any routes from being operated.

 

[johncrossley]

However as mentioned above anyone can buy a bus and operate a local route there, which you can't do in London. TfL strictly controls how commercial buses operate within Greater London, while outside franchised areas where buses are deregulated, the local authority has no power to control or forbid any routes from being operated.

But as mentioned above, that is a moot point because you would have to compete against a subsidised tendered service.

 

[JonasB]

So for local and regional buses, "deregulation" isn't really the right word. In UK speak this sounds very much like franchising or tendering. Some people in the UK call this "regulation" (or "reregulation" in places like Manchester where there was deregulation), so in actual fact the opposite of deregulation.

Deregulation in long distance coaches has become the norm across most of Europe.

Deregulation is very much the right word. But unlike in the UK, deregulation was the only thing that happened. There was no privatisation of bus services or similar policies. The local transport authorities continue to operate pretty much as they did before. And when looking just at their network, tendering is probably the right word to use. If you want to go from Skövde to Skara you buy a ticket from Västtrafik and they set the routes and fares and the colour of the buses. But you have to look very carefully to find out which company actually operates the bus.

But as mentioned, they don't have a monopoly any more. Anyone can operate their own routes if they want. Since they are competing with tax funded routes, local private bus routes are rare but not unheard of.

 

[miklcct]

Deregulation is very much the right word. But unlike in the UK, deregulation was the only thing that happened. There was no privatisation of bus services or similar policies. The local transport authorities continue to operate pretty much as they did before. And when looking just at their network, tendering is probably the right word to use. If you want to go from Skövde to Skara you buy a ticket from Västtrafik and they set the routes and fares and the colour of the buses. But you have to look very carefully to find out which company actually operates the bus.

But as mentioned, they don't have a monopoly any more. Anyone can operate their own routes if they want. Since they are competing with tax funded routes, local private bus routes are rare but not unheard of.

In this case won't private companies just cherry-pick profitable routes, leaving the local authority operating loss-making routes, increasing tax subsidies unnecessarily?

 

[The exile]

In this case won't private companies just cherry-pick profitable routes, leaving the local authority operating loss-making routes, increasing tax subsidies unnecessarily?

That assumes that there are any at the fares charged.

 

[JonasB]

In this case won't private companies just cherry-pick profitable routes, leaving the local authority operating loss-making routes, increasing tax subsidies unnecessarily?

That hasn't happened, probably because they would have to compete with an integrated ticket system and it's hard for them to offer something extra to attract customers.

The private local bus routes I'm familiar with are basically airport routes that the local transport authority isn't operating. And Ikea used to operate a bus route from central Stockholm to one of their stores before the pandemic. But that bus was free I think and not intended to make money.

 

[johncrossley]

Is there a list of local bus routes that are run by private companies without subsidy?

 

[JonasB]

Is there a list of local bus routes that are run by private companies without subsidy?

Not that I know. The ones that I'm aware of are basically a couple of airport routes run mostly by Flygbussarna and a few routes in the mountains that have been taken over by private companies after the local transport authorities abandoned them.

 

[johncrossley]

Not that I know. The ones that I'm aware of are basically a couple of airport routes run mostly by Flygbussarna and a few routes in the mountains that have been taken over by private companies after the local transport authorities abandoned them.

I'd be particularly interested if there are services competing against regular services in urban areas. If there aren't, I would say this effectively means there is basically no real deregulation as we would consider it in the UK, even if private companies can run whatever they want in theory. If that's the case, arguably Ireland has more "deregulation" than Sweden as there are quite a few local buses in Ireland that are fully commercial. However they do need to be approved by the Irish authorities, which often won't happen if they compete substantially with an existing service.

 

[RailWonderer]

Not that I know. The ones that I'm aware of are basically a couple of airport routes run mostly by Flygbussarna and a few routes in the mountains that have been taken over by private companies after the local transport authorities abandoned them.

The same thing happens in Norway. Askeladden Reiser (there are also others) is a private bus comapny running Mercedes Sprinter minibuses on longer distance routes to rural parts of Norway from to and from the airport. They can be expensive to use but still cheaper than a taxi and they are nearly empty when I've used them.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Can anyone explain to be how it's different from the UK system, and why Sweden's rail system didn't deteriorate with expensive fare and poor service like the UK's counterpart. Also, despite deregulation I still see municipal regional bus operators everywhere in Sweden, can anyone explain to me why the UK is left with such a fragmented bus service with commercial companies running buses without a coherent network.

A big difference with trains is that the nationalised network wasn’t fragmented into packages that were put out for competitive tender. As @JonasB has explained, SJ was slowly opened up to competition. They withdrew from unprofitable routes and then each county (län) started to procure the services they wanted.

In my part of Sweden (the far north) SJ quickly withdrew from almost all passenger services because of the lack of profitability. The state started to procure the night trains between Norrland and the south. But almost all local trains disappeared.

Since 2010 the counties of Norrbotten, Västerbotten, Västernorrland and Jämtland have collaborated to establish Norrtåg. Norrtåg own or lease the trains, set schedules, fares and service standards. Then private companies compete to deliver the service they have demanded. Tågkompaniet (now Vy Sverige) were first and VR Sverige will be next. Now we have more than 50 daily train services across a huge area, with a mix of long distance (~4hr to 5hr) regional trains and shorter distance commuter trains feeding the cities.

 

[JonasB]

I'd be particularly interested if there are services competing against regular services in urban areas. If there aren't, I would say this effectively means there is basically no real deregulation as we would consider it in the UK, even if private companies can run whatever they want in theory. If that's the case, arguably Ireland has more "deregulation" than Sweden as there are quite a few local buses in Ireland that are fully commercial. However they do need to be approved by the Irish authorities, which often won't happen if they compete substantially with an existing service.

They are rare, but one I'm aware of is m/s Emelie. A ferry company runs two routes in Stockholm. For one of them, in Hammarby Sjöstad, they have a contract with the city and the ferries are free for passengers. But their other route, operated by m/s Emelie, is run on a commercial basis. Map of the route: https://ressel.se/emelie-trafiken/

But whether there are any private routes or not, it does not change the fact that there are no laws stopping it.

Since 2010 the counties of Norrbotten, Västerbotten, Västernorrland and Jämtland have collaborated to establish Norrtåg. Norrtåg own or lease the trains, set schedules, fares and service standards. Then private companies compete to deliver the service they have demanded. Tågkompaniet (now Vy Sverige) were first and VR Sverige will be next. Now we have more than 50 daily train services across a huge area, with a mix of long distance (~4hr to 5hr) regional trains and shorter distance commuter trains feeding the cities.

And before Tågkompaniet the trains were run by Botniatåg.

 

[johncrossley]

They are rare, but one I'm aware of is m/s Emelie. A ferry company runs two routes in Stockholm. For one of them, in Hammarby Sjöstad, they have a contract with the city and the ferries are free for passengers. But their other route, operated by m/s Emelie, is run on a commercial basis. Map of the route: https://ressel.se/emelie-trafiken/

Bus deregulation in UK terminology usually means specific legislation that took effect on 26 October 1986 which allowed private companies to operate any local buses they want in the UK outside London and Northern Ireland. Since a year ago parts of Greater Manchester have also been excluded from bus deregulation. As the name suggests, this doesn't apply to ferries. I'm not sure what competition restrictions (if any) apply to ferries, even in London and Northern Ireland. I've never read any discussion about domestic ferry competition, whereas bus deregulation is a very frequently debated topic.

But whether there are any private routes or not, it does not change the fact that there are no laws stopping it.

Following that reasoning, you could argue that Switzerland has bus deregulation. As I understand it, Flixbus (for example) are allowed to operate domestic bus/coach services within Switzerland, but they would have to accept the usual tickets valid on Swiss public transport. That effectively makes any kind of domestic private bus/coach service unviable, but technically competition is allowed.

 

[RT4038]

Bus deregulation in UK terminology usually means specific legislation that took effect on 26 October 1986 which allowed private companies to operate any local buses they want in the UK outside London and Northern Ireland. Since a year ago parts of Greater Manchester have also been excluded from bus deregulation. As the name suggests, this doesn't apply to ferries. I'm not sure what competition restrictions (if any) apply to ferries, even in London and Northern Ireland. I've never read any discussion about domestic ferry competition, whereas bus deregulation is a very frequently debated topic.


Following that reasoning, you could argue that Switzerland has bus deregulation. As I understand it, Flixbus (for example) are allowed to operate domestic bus/coach services within Switzerland, but they would have to accept the usual tickets valid on Swiss public transport. That effectively makes any kind of domestic private bus/coach service unviable, but technically competition is allowed.

I would suggest that the compulsion to accept 'the usual tickets valid on Swiss public transport' (and presumably whatever revenue sharing mechanism of area/period tickets that this would imply, but presumably without any topping up subsidy) would thereby effectively nullify any semblance of deregulation. I am not so sure that this would be permitted in Switzerland even under this circumstance. However in Sweden (for instance) a premium fare service could be offered (at times and/or on routes more convenient than the procured services) on a commercial basis, which is much more akin to deregulation as practised in the UK. Indeed there are some rural areas of the UK where only procured services actually operate (apart from some specialist works/private school/airport type operations perhaps).