Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Peter Sarf]

After riding the 701s on the Wimbledon side (my local), I wanted to share my thoughts.

Starting with the positives: the acceleration is very impressive, much better than the current fleet and even a bit faster than the 707s. The Wi-Fi is pretty decent too, getting 10Mbps up and down, same as the 707s.

The ride quality is decent at high speeds, though deceleration into some stations – like Vauxhall and Wimbledon (coming from Waterloo) – felt oddly bumpy. I forgot how poor the window alignment is. If you enjoy looking out at the scenery, and you don’t manage to get the perfect seat, you’re in for a bit of a disappointment, you’ll either see the dull grey interior of the train, or half a window. I also noticed that the SWR app does not show the carriage status information for these new trains, despite being SWR’s own new set of trains. It is baffling they didn’t integrate this, when you would expect it from their modern new train.

Now, onto the bad: To put it simply, the PIDs are cack. Earlier, when I boarded the train at Wimbledon, it showed the train was at Raynes Park, and would only call at Waterloo – wrong on both counts. The guard had to keep making announcements that we would in fact, be stopping at Clapham and Vauxhall. On my return, the route map omitted Clapham Junction, see the photos attached below. Whether this is down to poor software or carelessness, it is absolutely ridiculous that something so basic isn’t working. I was not expecting this to happen since there were no issues with announcements when I rode these previously on the Windsor line and the Hounslow loop.

Apart from that, the PIDs themselves have been horribly made. The scrolling text of stations is painfully laggy and almost to the point of making your eyes hurt, as the text struggles across the screen. Honestly, I feel like a dot matrix display would have done a better job here, although that would be wrong of me to say so, as the outside dot matrix displays take ages to scroll through the list of stations. Since these trains are based on the Electrostar software, which can handle normal scrolling speeds on the outside displays, it is confusing that the 701s are so slow, especially when units like the 720s can do this with no issues.

It was mentioned on this forum a couple of months ago that the outer displays switch off while moving, and this issue is still present. Upon arriving at Wimbledon, the displays didn’t turn on until the doors opened, leaving you clueless about the destination without platform DMIs. It’s beyond me why these units in particular have so many issues, when other Aventra fleets are competent enough to handle PIDs. Despite reportedly undergoing over a thousand software revisions at this point, these basic problems persist.

Furthermore, the announcements are still voiced by Celia. Enthusiasts might enjoy the nostalgia, but it is quite frankly, embarrassing that 40-year-old 455 trains use the new announcements, while this brand-new fleet sticks with the old ones. I know it’s nitpicking but come on - this is a poor show from SWR. I was lucky enough to commute daily on the 707s up until their recent departure, and they have set the bar high, whereas the 701 feels like a downgrade in some respects. How can you not get the basics right? It’s just unbelievable.

It is too embarrassing and confusing. Can the guard/driver not turn the useless things off.

 

[Snow1964]

It is too embarrassing and confusing. Can the guard/driver not turn the useless things off.

My experience of SWR suburban guards is they tend to hide in back cabs and do nothing between stations.

Presumably the wrong stations are being announced because of poor or wrong data having been input.

Now if the guards had a screen or keyboard to manually change the displays, and time on their hands between stations, would it not be better to correct data rather than turn it off, so same train following day announces it correctly. Not that many active diagrams yet so high chance of same train on same service soon.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

On Aventras, the Passenger Information Screens are uniquely linked to headcodes. So the issue lies somewhere there presumably

 

[norbitonflyer]

Three different units in service today.
701037 on the Windsor diagram
701039 ran 2H89/90 this morning
701036 is running the Shepperton diagram this afternoon, and presumably tomorrow morning.

 

[Socanxdis]

Not surprised, Alstom after all. PIS on the 458s is still buggy.

 

[Goldfish62]

PIS on the 458s is still buggy.

That's a very polite way of putting it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2024 ==

My experience of SWR suburban guards is they tend to hide in back cabs and do nothing between stations.

Presumably the wrong stations are being announced because of poor or wrong data having been input.

Now if the guards had a screen or keyboard to manually change the displays, and time on their hands between stations, would it not be better to correct data rather than turn it off, so same train following day announces it correctly. Not that many active diagrams yet so high chance of same train on same service soon.

I assume it's the driver, not the guard, who sets the PIS and can make changes as necessary, as on other recent trains (eg IETs).

On one of the journeys I went on in January Sunnymeads station was closed and it was edited out of the announcements, so it can be done.

 

[TEW]

On Aventras, the Passenger Information Screens are uniquely linked to headcodes. So the issue lies somewhere there presumably

Yes. Although it is linked to the headcodes, it doesn't actually have the right calling patterns for some trains. Clapham Junction missing on the Shepperton ones seems to be a paticular issue.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes. Although it is linked to the headcodes, it doesn't actually have the right calling patterns for some trains. Clapham Junction missing on the Shepperton ones seems to be a paticular issue.

Soooo.....whoever entered to the stopping patterns for each train made some mistakes. Sounds like that's the problem rather than a fundamental issue with the software.

 

[Peter Sarf]

My experience of SWR suburban guards is they tend to hide in back cabs and do nothing between stations.

Presumably the wrong stations are being announced because of poor or wrong data having been input.

Now if the guards had a screen or keyboard to manually change the displays, and time on their hands between stations, would it not be better to correct data rather than turn it off, so same train following day announces it correctly. Not that many active diagrams yet so high chance of same train on same service soon.

I suspect that if a guard (driver more likely) can change the calling pattern - they would only be overriding the default pattern which will re-appear when the software is re-booted ?.

A permanent change will be a downloaded (or manually entered) calling pattern done by someone other than train crew.

 

[Forestboy]

PIS is the drivers responsibility like with 458 traction.You actually have more control of the PIS on 701 than with 458.You can edit the route as you please.Missing out stations for example when given Not to stop orders by signaller or platform staff.The driver must of forgotten to edit the route.

 

[swr444]

PIS is the drivers responsibility like with 458 traction.You actually have more control of the PIS on 701 than with 458.You can edit the route as you please.Missing out stations for example when given Not to stop orders by signaller or platform staff.The driver must of forgotten to edit the route.

I believe control can also edit the calling pattern if a not to call / special stop request is needed. Also the guard can put the headcode in if the driver is not present

 

[pompeyfan]

Are there any PIS systems that take a feed from Darwin / Worldline / Tyrell? And if not what are the reasons for not doing so?

 

[TEW]

Soooo.....whoever entered to the stopping patterns for each train made some mistakes. Sounds like that's the problem rather than a fundamental issue with the software.

Yes. Although fixing it, or changing anything with the PIS seems to be far more complicated than on any other stock.

 

[swr444]

looks like theres problems with 2H93. was TRTS'd and given the road but has since had the signal reverted and is still at Waterloo.

 

[SEtrains]

looks like theres problems with 2H93. was TRTS'd and given the road but has since had the signal reverted and is still at Waterloo

701036 has now departed Waterloo on 2H93. It seems as though there was a problem in the Waterloo area that was not to do with the 701 as multiple trains in the area were delayed. Edit: 701036 now appears to be only calling at ‘main’ stations

 

[168lover]

The delays did afford a rare 701 cross over at Richmond, if you squinted hard enough you would have been mistaken for thinking they were in squadron service

 

[DMckduck]

My experience of SWR suburban guards is they tend to hide in back cabs and do nothing between stations.

Presumably the wrong stations are being announced because of poor or wrong data having been input.

Now if the guards had a screen or keyboard to manually change the displays, and time on their hands between stations, would it not be better to correct data rather than turn it off, so same train following day announces it correctly. Not that many active diagrams yet so high chance of same train on same service soon.

The guard on a 701 has no control over the PIS if a drivers key is on and can only enter a headcode to setup the PIS with no editable options with no driver present.

 

[swr444]

701036 has now departed Waterloo on 2H93. It seems as though there was a problem in the Waterloo area that was not to do with the 701 as multiple trains in the area were delayed. Edit: 701036 now appears to be only calling at ‘main’ stations

it is noted that the train had a fault.

 

[SEtrains]

it is noted that the train had a fault.

Oh right I thought it may not have been a fault with train as there was a fair bit of congestion in the Waterloo area

 

[WWTownEnth]

Turning to future services, does anyone know when further diagrams are likely to be added? I read above there should be a total of four in place before the introduction of the December timetable. Any idea when, and will they also be Windsor and Shepperton services?

Also, is there likely to be a significant introduction of additional further diagrams with the December timetable?

 

[swr444]

Turning to future services, does anyone know when further diagrams are likely to be added? I read above there should be a total of four in place before the introduction of the December timetable. Any idea when, and will they also be Windsor and Shepperton services?

Also, is there likely to be a significant introduction of additional further diagrams with the December timetable?

I have a feeling they will probably take over most shepperton diagrams before moving onto anywhere else.

 

[WWTownEnth]

I have a feeling they will probably take over most shepperton diagrams before moving onto anywhere else.

Thanks. Is that because of peak time congestion?

 

[swr444]

Thanks. Is that because of peak time congestion?

Because it has a tight timetable with tight turnaround times at Waterloo and Sheppy. 701s have quicker acceleration and having 10 cars will help reduce dwell times. Basically why the 707s were deployed on that line.

 

[MasterPhillips]

So guards who have lost control of opening and closing doors cant even work the PIS system on board if the stops are changed on a service (which is very common on SWR) . Seems a mistake.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Because it has a tight timetable with tight turnaround times at Waterloo and Sheppy. 701s have quicker acceleration and having 10 cars will help reduce dwell times. Basically why the 707s were deployed on that line.

Like they did with the 707s.

 

[mansonlo49]

according to somebody in 730 post, saying that 701502 moved to Old Dalby today as 5Q70

 

[800001]

according to somebody in 730 post, saying that 701502 moved to Old Dalby today as 5Q70

It did.

 

[swr444]

So guards who have lost control of opening and closing doors cant even work the PIS system on board if the stops are changed on a service (which is very common on SWR) . Seems a mistake.

Guards are closing the doors currently at most stations

 

[Towers]

So guards who have lost control of opening and closing doors cant even work the PIS system on board if the stops are changed on a service (which is very common on SWR) . Seems a mistake.

That’s a poor design, difficult to see why the system can’t take an input from either cab. Someone up thread mentioned it only being drivers who can adjust PIS on new trains “like IETs”; in fact the guard has full access to the TMS and can edit all manner of things on an IET. That’s just basic common sense, the driver has other things to be doing!

 

[DMckduck]

That’s a poor design, difficult to see why the system can’t take an input from either cab. Someone up thread mentioned it only being drivers who can adjust PIS on new trains “like IETs”; in fact the guard has full access to the TMS and can edit all manner of things on an IET. That’s just basic common sense, the driver has other things to be doing!

I imagine the IETs were still designed with having a Train Manager on-board the long distance services?

These 701s were built to firstgroup and MTRs spec which originally was DOO. Whether the TMS can have a retrofit to allow the guard access to PIS features is a good question.

But for now any changes or corrections to a calling pattern at any point require driver input.