ORR proposes lower track access charges for HS1

[YorkRailFan]

This comes as part of the ORR's Draft Determination of HS1:

The Draft Determination sets out ORR’s view of HS1 Ltd’s five-year spending plans for the high speed line, from 2025 to 2030. ORR was able to identify specific areas in the company’s spending plans where further improvements can be made, resulting in savings to passenger and freight train operators.

In its detailed review, ORR says that HS1 Ltd has produced a good 5-year plan that showed improvement from the plan for the previous five year control period, and highlights successes that HS1 Ltd has achieved in the current control period, 2020-2025.

The successes include improvements to the way the company maintains and renews its track assets using more detailed asset data, which ORR called for in its last review of the company’s plans, in 2020. ORR is calling for HS1 Ltd to take a similar approach to other assets – such as its signalling, and the lifts and escalators at its stations, so that those assets are maintained as efficiently as possible now, and into the future.

ORR has also reviewed the costs for stations on the line for the first time (previous reviews were conducted by the Department for Transport), including St Pancras, and has identified opportunities for improving the way the stations are managed, to reduce their costs.

Feras Alshaker, Director, Planning and Performance at ORR, said:

"The High Speed 1 line is a vital connection between the UK and Continental Europe, and makes a crucial contribution to the UK economy, supporting growth. It is important that it continues to be a resilient, high performing network for both passengers and freight users.

"The detailed scrutiny and challenge we’ve applied to HS1 Ltd’s plans should see the costs of operating on the line reduce significantly, giving savings for both international and domestic operators over the next five years, with benefits for passengers and freight users."

Regulator to cut charges passenger and freight trains pay to use HS1 | Office of Rail and Road

ORR has proposed lower charges for passenger trains which use the High Speed 1 line from London St Pancras to the Channel Tunnel, and halving charges to freight, in its Draft Determination of HS1 Ltd’s spending plans, published today.

www.orr.gov.uk

A decision that will be welcomed by the many companies proposing cross-Channel passenger services. Also positive news for international freight operators!

 

[cle]

It's great news, I hope it makes a difference. St Pancras plan is next!

 

[Cach17]

I'm sure people in Kent (me included) will be happy if it means cheaper fares for SE High Speed services!

 

[MerlinRail 804]

It's great news, I hope it makes a difference. St Pancras plan is next!

People talk about St Pancras is running out of Platforms. A look at RTT tells me that most eurostars spend over 90 mins in the station - is that really necessary? Some planes take around 30 mins to turn around and that includes waiting for all the equipment. With enough staff and boarding points a 16 coach train could easily do it in the same amount of time in my view

 

[AlastairFraser]

People talk about St Pancras is running out of Platforms. A look at RTT tells me that most eurostars spend over 90 mins in the station - is that really necessary? Some planes take around 30 mins to turn around and that includes waiting for all the equipment. With enough staff and boarding points a 16 coach train could easily do it in the same amount of time in my view

Problem is that you have to align with the paths through the Channel Tunnel and on the French/Belgian/Dutch high speed networks too.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Also positive news for international freight operators!

Really great news. If modal shift is the goal (or one of them) this is key.

 

[nineteenninety]

People talk about St Pancras is running out of Platforms. A look at RTT tells me that most eurostars spend over 90 mins in the station - is that really necessary? Some planes take around 30 mins to turn around and that includes waiting for all the equipment. With enough staff and boarding points a 16 coach train could easily do it in the same amount of time in my view

Most Aircraft that have 30 minute turnarounds are Aircraft with less than 200 pax, Eurostar trains hold around 700 and would need considerably longer to prep. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it would need to fit in with the timetabling on the other side of the Channel as well.

 

[30907]

Problem is that you have to align with the paths through the Channel Tunnel and on the French/Belgian/Dutch high speed networks too.

The longer turnround times also give the opportunity to step-up or swap a set - this is done often enough when there is disruption or a failure.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm sure people in Kent (me included) will be happy if it means cheaper fares for SE High Speed services!

I seem to recall reading that all South Eastern longer distance fares were increased by a higher than average level to pay for HS1, therefore I'd hope that this resulted in slower fares increases for the classic services as well.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Most Aircraft that have 30 minute turnarounds are Aircraft with less than 200 pax, Eurostar trains hold around 700 and would need considerably longer to prep. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it would need to fit in with the timetabling on the other side of the Channel as well.

Yes, an Airbus 380 for example takes considerably longer. Still 90 minutes does on the face of it seem a little long and 15 minutes could probably be shaved off.

 

[AlastairFraser]

The longer turnround times also give the opportunity to step-up or swap a set - this is done often enough when there is disruption or a failure.

Very true

 

[nineteenninety]

Yes, an Airbus 380 for example takes considerably longer. Still 90 minutes does on the face of it seem a little long and 15 minutes could probably be shaved off.

So if turnaround times decreased, would this also see an increase of E* services to the continent? If so then that'll cause more capacity issues within St Pancras, which is still a problem now.

 

[fishwomp]

Yes, an Airbus 380 for example takes considerably longer. Still 90 minutes does on the face of it seem a little long and 15 minutes could probably be shaved off.

Last I checked, an a380 had fewer doors than a Eurostar! Fact is, they could turn a eurostar quicker _if_ they wanted to - there must be no economic incentive. Wonder how much the parking fee for that 90 mins is..

 

[AlastairFraser]

So if turnaround times decreased, would this also see an increase of E* services to the continent? If so then that'll cause more capacity issues within St Pancras, which is still a problem now.

No. That would require more Police Aux Frontiers and Border Force staff, I believe. I think best option to add capacity would be Ebbsfleet as a cross-channel terminal.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

There are a number of things which occur during the turnaround times, some of which are not publicly disclosed and are completely outside of Eurostar (or any TOC) control. The resources for these checks are (normally) extremely limited and minimising delay to a service is not a consideration they have.

The actual Eurostar/contractor turnaround checks and prep can be quite quick, especially when a delayed train is anticipated and things are moved around to do everything as quickly as possible.

 

[cle]

People talk about St Pancras is running out of Platforms. A look at RTT tells me that most eurostars spend over 90 mins in the station - is that really necessary? Some planes take around 30 mins to turn around and that includes waiting for all the equipment. With enough staff and boarding points a 16 coach train could easily do it in the same amount of time in my view

St Pancras's issue is not with # of platforms for Eurostar, but the undercroft; ticketing, security/check-in and departures area. It's completely at capacity.

There are teams working on how to expand this. The battle will be with the eternal victor of rail developments: retail space.

Eurostar want more services, especially to Amsterdam (although the saga of that station is very frustrating and damaging) - and indeed, they limit capacity due to this and other issues (inbound checks post-Brexit are also a big capacity issue) - and thus services are less full, and ticket prices inflated higher to maintain rev/margin. So nobody wins.

People are not permitted to wait on platforms, or board especially early. There is addl ticket/seat checking alongside the carriages too (so much cost) - those resources need to then jump across to the next service, etc...

 

[TheWierdOne]

People are not permitted to wait on platforms

Could this be solved by having flights of departures leave from the same platform islands? Then you could open the trains up to boarding as soon as the trains for one flight have been security swept and cleaned, thereby enabling later passengers on later to start being put through passport and security controls and held in the undercroft until next flight of trains is ready to go.

You’d need to make sure the platforms and trains clearly showed their destination but if anyone accidentally hopped on the wrong train it wouldn’t be a massive disaster as they’d be cleared into Schengen anyway so you’d just need to get them an onward train from the first stop.

 

[Snow1964]

Now published, applies from April

The Office of Rail and Road announced today that it is directing HS1 Ltd to lower its charges for passenger and freight train operating companies to use the high speed rail line from London to the Channel Tunnel, from April 2025.

The regulator’s decision, published in its Final Determination of HS1 Ltd’s spending plans for the next five years, follows a thorough review of the company’s proposals, which had already proposed some reductions in costs relative to today.

The regulator has determined that overall charges should come down by 3.8% (£5m per year) compared to HS1 Ltd’s latest plans, which were published in November as a response to the regulator’s Draft Determination in September. As part of this, the company is being directed to reduce its charges for renewing its track assets and its stations, including St Pancras. It must also reduce its charges for its day-to-day operating and maintenance of the railway.

ORR was able to identify specific areas in the company’s spending plans where further improvements can be made, resulting in savings to passenger and freight train operators. ORR's view is that better management of the track and station assets can result in lower charges, ultimately benefiting customers.

In its response to the Draft Determination, HS1 Ltd disagreed with the amount of ORR’s proposed reductions in charges. The regulator took additional evidence from HS1 Ltd and other stakeholders into account, but ultimately determined that the company’s spending plans did not meet its duties for efficient spending.

Rail Regulator orders HS1 Ltd to further lower charges for train operators | Office of Rail and Road

The Office of Rail and Road announced today that it is directing HS1 Ltd to lower its charges for passenger and freight train operating companies to use the high speed rail line from London to the Channel Tunnel, from April 2025.

www.orr.gov.uk

 

[HSTEd]

St Pancras's issue is not with # of platforms for Eurostar, but the undercroft; ticketing, security/check-in and departures area. It's completely at capacity.

There are teams working on how to expand this. The battle will be with the eternal victor of rail developments: retail space.

This does raise interesting questions about the apparent mismatch between the platform space provided for Eurostar operations, versus the capacity of the system to actually process passengers.

Given that HS1 domestic operations could probably do with additional platforms, to say nothing of the MML side, this is something of an issue.

 

[ScotGG]

I seem to recall reading that all South Eastern longer distance fares were increased by a higher than average level to pay for HS1, therefore I'd hope that this resulted in slower fares increases for the classic services as well.

All Southeastern fares including Metro rose above inflation and other TOCs for years with HS1 being given as the reason whether Hs1 was of any use or served certain areas and routes whatsoever eg someone on the Hayes line saw no benefit except higher fares for years.

 

[Geogregor]

All Southeastern fares including Metro rose above inflation and other TOCs for years with HS1 being given as the reason whether Hs1 was of any use or served certain areas and routes whatsoever eg someone on the Hayes line saw no benefit except higher fares for years.

As far as I know Southeastern fare rises in recent years were in line with other operators as it is government which sets the regulated fare rises.

 

[yorksrob]

All Southeastern fares including Metro rose above inflation and other TOCs for years with HS1 being given as the reason whether Hs1 was of any use or served certain areas and routes whatsoever eg someone on the Hayes line saw no benefit except higher fares for years.

Thanks for the confirmation.

As far as I know Southeastern fare rises in recent years were in line with other operators as it is government which sets the regulated fare rises.

But those above average fare increases of yesteryear are now baked into todays fares with no comparative/corrective reduction.

 

[Geogregor]

But those above average fare increases of yesteryear are now baked into todays fares with no comparative/corrective reduction.

But it has nothing top do with the HS1, all operators had above the inflation fare rises. It was treasury decision.

 

[Watershed]

But it has nothing top do with the HS1, all operators had above the inflation fare rises. It was treasury decision.

No, there were SE-specific fare increases of RPI+3% for over 6 years, that were higher than the increases applied to other operators; this was around the time of HS1 services beginning. See this correspondence involving one of the borough councils in their 'patch'.

 

[Geogregor]

No, there were SE-specific fare increases of RPI+3% for over 6 years, that were higher than the increases applied to other operators; this was around the time of HS1 services beginning. See this correspondence involving one of the borough councils in their 'patch'.

I'm reading it third time and don't see any rise specifically caused by the HS1 charges.

Besides, are we seriously talking about Southeastern fare rises 12 or more years ago? It has nothing to do with the current changes to the pricing regime on the HS1

 

[yorksrob]

No, there were SE-specific fare increases of RPI+3% for over 6 years, that were higher than the increases applied to other operators; this was around the time of HS1 services beginning. See this correspondence involving one of the borough councils in their 'patch'.

Indeed.

I'm reading it third time and don't see any rise specifically caused by the HS1 charges.

Besides, are we seriously talking about Southeastern fare rises 12 or more years ago? It has nothing to do with the current changes to the pricing regime on the HS1

Yes, because those extra increases were baked in an current fare rises are on top of higher than average fares. This affects people for whom HS1 is little use.

BR did the same thing with fares on the ECML in the 1980's and short ECML fares such as York to Doncaster are still, forty years later, extortionate in comparison to similar distances on the neighbouring lines.

 

[Geogregor]

Indeed.



Yes, because those extra increases were baked in an current fare rises are on top of higher than average fares. This affects people for whom HS1 is little use.

BR did the same thing with fares on the ECML in the 1980's and short ECML fares such as York to Doncaster are still, forty years later, extortionate in comparison to similar distances on the neighbouring lines.

Oh, I'm aware of historic "peculiarities" of British ticketing system. I joust thought this thread is about latest ORR decision regarding the HS1 charges, rather than wider discussion about weird ticketing in the UK.

Those changes are to large degree designed to attract more international operators as HS1 is underused.

 

[yorksrob]

Oh, I'm aware of historic "peculiarities" of British ticketing system. I joust thought this thread is about latest ORR decision regarding the HS1 charges, rather than wider discussion about weird ticketing in the UK.

Those changes are to large degree designed to attract more international operators as HS1 is underused.

But I'm pointing out that charges on HS1 can affect the rest of Kent.

 

[CeeJ]

From Southeastern MD on Twitter:

Steve White: HS1 will comply with this direction from the regulator. In first instance this will reduce the subsidy required to operate our railway. It also offers an opportunity for us to work with the DFT to operate additional services on HS1 funded through these savings. Watch this space!

So no price reductions (at least in the short-term), money back to the Treasury.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Don't hold your breath for cheaper Eurostar fares. Assuming the 3.8% reduction is applied across the board Eurostar will save around £5m per year. This is less than 1% of Eurostar's overall track access costs or about 0.5% of total costs.
Put another way if the £5m p.a. costs were wholly returned to the passengers (equally) everyone would have a 50p reduction per journey.