Private schools seem to often provide education the state sector seems unwilling to, e.g. children with SEND. It’s throwing the baby out with the bath water.
10% going back to the state sector would apparently be enough to wipe out any potential income. Given the relatively small amounts of money it would raise, it feels it’s driven more by envy and spite. Why not improve the state schools first?
Ah, yes, OpenAI. To me "open" suggests "open source", which it isn't. They should really have not named themselves in this extremely misleading manner. "ClosedAI" would be much more accurate
Apparently she's going to join a band alongside Graham Linehan and J.K. Rowling called TERF, Wind and Fire.
I think it's a matter of principle as much as money-raising. You can choose to describe that as envy and spite if you want to, but I don't think it's a particularly accurate representation of the feelings behind the principle. Put simply you can't improve state schools without making it harder for the pupils with richer and more engaged parents to opt out.
Lots of interesting ideas about this, there's no way state sector will improve if pupils from private schools end up in state sector. It will just lead to more oversized classes as the extra funds raised just won'tend up directlyin educationbut in the big governmentmelting pot. There is a shortage of teachers which needs addressing first.
What does VAT on anything achieve? It is ultimately a matter of trying to find things that raise tax revenue, and this seems to be something untapped that the government has been clear about putting in place and people have effectively voted for.
Indeed, public services must be paid for, but the massive involvement of for-profit enterprises in the provision of the services we want falls distinctly in the category of optional; and increasingly it looks like this profit-extraction is something we can ill-afford.
I guess the government could try bringing contracts back into public operation but that will be difficult.
I guess that depends on where the money ends up. If it stays in the UK economy, presumably the profits add to GDP. If they go abroad, then yes, we can ill afford it. However, that is really what we are all about as a society, chasing the quick pound, and leaving ourselves at the mercy of the rest of the world.
That does seem a bit of a pointless statement, I'm not stupid and well aware of the need to raise tax revenue but VAT on school fees, which is a small niche market, isn't realistically going to make any real difference.
The clue is in the name. VAT is a tax on value added. It is the government's share of the proceeds of economic activity, used to fund the public services that facilitate that economic activity, and to pay interest payments on its debt that was borrowed to pay for infrastructure that facilitates that economic activity.
Yes, that is pretty much the position being put forward on school fees, that the zero rating of VAT has been an inherent subsidy.
Is it? These people have removed their children from the state system so they don't need the taxpayer to pay for their education.
Absolutely nothing at all wrong with it. And nothing stopping her from continuing to do so.
It’s been known about for at least six months, if not longer. As policies go, Labour announced this one before the election with a big red neon sign.
Schools don’t have to pass the 20%. And schools can start living up to those charitable aims and offer more bursaries for families who genuinely can’t afford it.
Until now the state has been paying a subsidy, through forgoing the VAT. The value of that subsidy has increased over time because the VAT rate has increased.
Previous Labour governments did not inherit public finances with debt at 100% of GDP, or a standard rate of VAT at 20%.
All private schools are not being closed. The state system will be able to absorb switches from private to state funded schools because demography means that state school rolls are falling so capacity will be available in the state sector.
Employees pay income tax whether or not VAT is charged on what they produce. The fact that staff of private schools pay income tax is irrelevant.
We all want the best for our children. But- here’s the thing- sometimes we can’t afford them.
The VAT take for my local private school would be £4000 per pupil, assuming that the school will offset what input VAT it can.
Schools don’t have to pass the 20% on, and they don’t have to pass the 20% for pupils who genuinely are on the edge of affordability. Part of the charitable aims is providing bursaries where they are necessary.
I agree with this assessment. I expect there to be very few immediate transfers of pupils from the private sector to the state sector. But it is important to remember that all markets are dynamic not static, and this is particularly the case with education because children grow up. Every year there is a huge churn of new pupils starting and old pupils leaving. What will happen is that new entries to the private sector will fall, and nobody really knows how big that will be.
Parents still have that choice. But it doesn't mean that the government, which is up to its ears in debt, should subsidise them to do it.
Lattes and avocados were not a thing in the 1970s. It was Nescafe and Marmite.
This may not be a bad thing; in my area schools have reduced their PAN (pupil admission number) values to reflect the reduced intakes. The schools remain the same physical size and the buildings have the same capacities, but the stated capacity is artificially reduced. The potential numbers of students who may transfer to state schools are small in comparison to the spare capacity that is becoming available in state schools.
It'll be interesting to see which way it goes. My opinion remains that most people who are minded to use private education will just suck up the VAT just as they will suck up the underlying price rises set by the private schools themselves. These underlying price rises have been running at between 5% and 10% per year for years.
my view as well - also there will be deals to be done.
Which private schools do you envision closing?
Private schools close, go co educational or merge on a fairly regular basis. I doubt that it will happen more frequently because of this decision.
That's avery misguided view I'm afraid. Moving to a new school can be extremely difficult fir some children.
