TFL letter through after being stopped without valid ticket - Advice on how to respond

[oohheck]

On the 19th September I was stopped at a little after 11pm without a valid fair trying to leave the underground barriers at London Bridge having got on at Moorgate.

I had a valid ticket via the train line anytime return from Gatwick to and from London St Pancras International for Thameslink/Southern railway, I'd intended to get back on at City Thameslink, but went out for a few beers with staff from the office and ended up next to Moorgate later than I'd intended.

Because I'd not thought about taking the underground at all, and was a bit tired and under the influence I tried to pay at the barriers with my traineline app at Moorgate. Clearly that didn't work and for some reason I just carried on through an open set of barriers, took the 3 stops down to London Bridge to change to overground. As I got to the barriers the penny had dropped on why the barriers hadn't worked at Moorgate and I followed someone through the barriers and was stopped.

I spoke to the TFL officer explained I'd had a valid overground ticket, accepted this didn't cover the Northern line and that I'd got confused at Moorgate. I gave him my name and address which he wrote down and then carried on my journey.

I received the attached letter during the week which needs responding to, and am after guidance on how best to play this.

I had a valid ticket for a journey that started further north and ended further south but clearly it wasn't valid for the underground. I totally accept I didn't have a valid ticket, but there was not in my mind an attempt to save money by evading a fare, I'd just made an incompetent attempt to pay using an invalid app.


A fixed penalty fine would be acceptable and put down to a tax on being a fool so I don't want to claim I've done nothing wrong, but I'm very keen to avoid a date in court over this if I possibly can.

Thoughts welcome

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

In a literal sense, you probably won't have a date with the court, but in reality you probably will not avoid a criminal conviction in that TfL normally deal with matters like this using the 'Single Justice Procedure' (the 'SJP') which means that the whole thing (including being convicted) is dealt with on paper.

From what you have said, you did commit a criminal offence by travelling without a valid ticket (and if I have read things correctly, also tailgating someone through a gate) so if you go to court (whether in person or via the SJP) you will be convicted. TfL normally take this sort of thing to court, and that is what will probably happen in your case. The consequence will be a fine, costs and so on - but you will not go to prison.

It is still worth replying to their letter in that we occasionally see these matters settled with a formal warning rather than prosecution, but the chance is not strong.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take this sort of thing very seriously and they often prosecute under the TfL Byelaws. What they've sent you is their standard Verification Letter that asks you to confirm or deny the offence and tell them about anything you want them to take into account before they decide how to proceed.

I suggest writing a short, concise reply that mentions the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL generally do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to tae into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income (nirmally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[John R]

I guess the difficulty you might have in persuading TfL that it was accidental is that firstly you presumably tailgated someone, and secondly why you would not have simply used contactless for the additional journey? (I presume that given the comment about beers with office staff you are familiar with the use of contactless around London?)

 

[oohheck]

Welcome to the forum.

In a literal sense, you probably won't have a date with the court, but in reality you probably will not avoid a criminal conviction in that TfL normally deal with matters like this using the 'Single Justice Procedure' (the 'SJP') which means that the whole thing (including being convicted) is dealt with on paper.

From what you have said, you did commit a criminal offence by travelling without a valid ticket (and if I have read things correctly, also tailgating someone through a gate) so if you go to court (whether in person or via the SJP) you will be convicted. TfL normally take this sort of thing to court, and that is what will probably happen in your case. The consequence will be a fine, costs and so on - but you will not go to prison.

It is still worth replying to their letter in that we occasionally see these matters settled with a formal warning rather than prosecution, but the chance is not strong.

Oof,

Thank you for the reply, I'll try to write up as coherently as possible what happened and reply to the letter by email.

It doesn't sound like there are any particular phrases I should avoid/ include. I was rather hoping the reward for giving an honest account and address to the officer despite not having ID on me would be a fixed penalty fine rather than a conviction, but it's in their power to proceed and that sounds like their default action.

Assuming they proceed via SJP (it seems like this is easy for them to do) we're into the realms where when asked on every bit of paper "do you have any criminal convictions" I would need to say "yes" for the next 5 years or so?

Thank you again for the response.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Sep 2024 ==

I guess the difficulty you might have in persuading TfL that it was accidental is that firstly you presumably tailgated someone, and secondly why you would not have simply used contactless for the additional journey? (I presume that given the comment about beers with office staff you are familiar with the use of contactless around London?)

Yes I don't think I could claim I wasn't familiar with contact less payment for the underground, I've used it plenty before. Had I set my phone to use it as default it would have done it while I was trying to swipe the barcode across the contact reader.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Sep 2024 ==

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take this sort of thing very seriously and they often prosecute under the TfL Byelaws. What they've sent you is their standard Verification Letter that asks you to confirm or deny the offence and tell them about anything you want them to take into account before they decide how to proceed.

I suggest writing a short, concise reply that mentions the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL generally do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to tae into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income (nirmally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

I shall write a response based on this advice, I must say while it's in their power to do all this, their approach seems very heavy handed, but I suppose I would feel that and its certainly made an impression!

I work in a role that requires me to disclose this to my employer, so that'll be another thing to manage, though I'm sure they've had to record worse.

Not looking forward to all of this one little bit!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Sep 2024 ==

I offered at the time I was stopped by the TFL officer to just touch out with a debit card now to which he said "no, but then you'd be charged the maximum PAYG fare for the day rather than just the stations you've travelled"

Given that, I've got to say I was fairly unprepared for the consequences I may be looking at here!

 

[oohheck]

Greetings all,

Thank you for the initial advice. I wrote an email as advised above and have had some back & forth correspondence, but ultimately received the somewhat expected SJP letter through this week.

I've had a brief look for Solicitors to represent the case and received quotes ranging from hundreds to thousands to take this on. Things I'm unclear on as I decide what to do next:

1) The SJP asks for your salary and NI number. I am assuming this is purely to see if a discount should be applied to the fine, but I have no idea what formula is actually used, can anyone help give me a range? I'm confident I won't qualify for a discount, is there any consequence to leaving this blank?
2) For the limited conviction, if I were to get it, does anyone have any experience of what material impact that has (i.e. having to declare it while getting quotes for insurance, mortgages etc). I'm trying to gauge the total likely impact here.
3) Are there any recommended (or noted to avoid) solicitors in this space if I'm looking to limit the likelihood of a criminal conviction (not sure if that's possible, but not quite yet ready to give up all hope).

Thank you again in advance

 

[SuspectUsual]

The answer to q1 is that the fine element is based on your salary

 

[spotify95]

Greetings all,

Thank you for the initial advice. I wrote an email as advised above and have had some back & forth correspondence, but ultimately received the somewhat expected SJP letter through this week.

I've had a brief look for Solicitors to represent the case and received quotes ranging from hundreds to thousands to take this on. Things I'm unclear on as I decide what to do next:

1) The SJP asks for your salary and NI number. I am assuming this is purely to see if a discount should be applied to the fine, but I have no idea what formula is actually used, can anyone help give me a range? I'm confident I won't qualify for a discount, is there any consequence to leaving this blank?
2) For the limited conviction, if I were to get it, does anyone have any experience of what material impact that has (i.e. having to declare it while getting quotes for insurance, mortgages etc). I'm trying to gauge the total likely impact here.
3) Are there any recommended (or noted to avoid) solicitors in this space if I'm looking to limit the likelihood of a criminal conviction (not sure if that's possible, but not quite yet ready to give up all hope).

Thank you again in advance

The reason why TfL are asking for your salary, is because your fine is related to your weekly income, if found (or plead) guilty. Note that if you plead guilty to this SJPN, you will receive a 33% discount on the fine amount.
There will also be a victim surcharge - 40% of the fine amount.

You will also have to pay TFLs court costs, and compensation for the fare avoided. These two latter amounts will be in the SJP paperwork.

If you don't provide your salary then they will assume a certain amount - your salary may be less than this so it is a good idea to provide your details on the SJP paperwork.

A solicitor could have been used when you received the Verification Letter (posted at the top of the thread) however would have likely cost you several hundred pounds, and there may still have been the chance of the matter being taken to court anyway (rather than a formal warning being issued). Given the SJPN has been issued, TfL won't be persuaded to settle this out of court anymore.