Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
That is not at all how it works. All trains will be rostered to be covered under the base roster.
The problem comes when you have Driver A route learning, Driver B stood down after a SPAD, Driver C off sick following a minor operation, Driver D moved to another TOC but it just so happens they are all on late shifts. If you only have 1 spare driver on lates you have 3 uncovered diagrams that were all covered in the base plan.
The links are designed so that assuming the depot is at full staffing every diagram is covered every day. Jobs aren't left out of the links to be covered by overtime. And when there are gaps in the links, the uncovered jobs will change each week.
The question for the modern railway is how much of the core rostering should rely on overtime? It's been asked many times before, but it still seems to be a problem.
The question for the modern railway is how much of the core rostering should rely on overtime? It's been asked many times before, but it still seems to be a problem.
But it's been stated that the services are all covered without overtime. However if people leave, go sick, are off duty due to an incident etc then you are basically relying on lots of people being spare or agreeing to do rest day work to cover the gaps.
So, does a TOC pay for more spare drivers and risk the wrath of the media moaning about people being paid to often do absolutely nothing?
Personally, spare drivers at strategic locations would make a lot of sense but cost a lot of money. However, the cost of cancellations is very high as well as taxis and rail replacement buses.
But it's been stated that the services are all covered without overtime. However if people leave, go sick, are off duty due to an incident etc then you are basically relying on lots of people being spare or agreeing to do rest day work to cover the gaps.
So, does a TOC pay for more spare drivers and risk the wrath of the media moaning about people being paid to often do absolutely nothing?
Personally, spare drivers at strategic locations would make a lot of sense but cost a lot of money. However, the cost of cancellations is very high as well as taxis and rail replacement buses.
Wait until the backpay for the delayed pay deal gets paid. The overtime kings who the company have relied on to work their rest days, may well find their pay for this tax year going over £100k because the backpay is being paid in one lump in one tax year, rather than spread out over three tax years (as it would've been if had been paid on time).
They may not feel it's worth it to work anymore overtime, as your effective tax rate between £100k and £125k is 60% as over £100k your tax free first £12k allowance ends up being eligible to be taxed.
Wait until the backpay for the delayed pay deal gets paid. The overtime kings who the company have relied on to work their rest days, may well find their pay for this tax year going over £100k because the backpay is being paid in one lump in one tax year, rather than spread out over three tax years (as it would've been if had been paid on time).
They may not feel it's worth it to work anymore overtime, as your effective tax rate between £100k and £125k is 60% as over £100k your tax free first £12k allowance ends up being eligible to be taxed.
And then there’s the impact of Christmas approaching, when people with children tend to find their diaries busy with other commitments.
I asked in one of the drivers pay threads what contingency plans were going to be put in place by DfT/TOCs to deal with these impacts, once the lump sums were paid. Can I presume the answer is that nothing has been done, or will be done, until 10pm of the evening prior to a ‘crisis’ staffing day, when a scrambled message will be placed on the relevant TOC website warning of mass cancellations? As per Thameslink!
Wait until the backpay for the delayed pay deal gets paid. The overtime kings who the company have relied on to work their rest days, may well find their pay for this tax year going over £100k because the backpay is being paid in one lump in one tax year, rather than spread out over three tax years (as it would've been if had been paid on time).
They may not feel it's worth it to work anymore overtime, as your effective tax rate between £100k and £125k is 60% as over £100k your tax free first £12k allowance ends up being eligible to be taxed.
As if there are ever spare platforms at STP to do that unless EMR aren't running. So seems pretty pointless and how would they retain route knowledge.
Pretty unusual to be fair to Tlk to be this short on a Saturday so is drivers using up leave allocation? Whatever am travelling down to South Coast and trains are very well used so the demand is there and the industry collectively needs to find a workable solution that ensures the train plan can be resourced at weekends.
Re. TL going upstairs at Pancras, it’s generally only during engineering, certainly post the 360s being introduced. As you say there isn’t much capacity.
The way train crew leave works means that drivers using leave up shouldn’t be a thing, as all leave is predictable, being either rostered, or ad hoc leave allocated on a first come first served basis. Where I am for example three ad hoc slots are guaranteed per day. If you’re below that in the book it’s only granted if the work can be covered.
Sickness and people being off track due to incidents or fatalities are of course unknowns, and go through peaks and troughs. Sickness as a rule is fairly bad at this time of year due to schools going back and bugs circulating.
Wait until the backpay for the delayed pay deal gets paid. The overtime kings who the company have relied on to work their rest days, may well find their pay for this tax year going over £100k because the backpay is being paid in one lump in one tax year, rather than spread out over three tax years (as it would've been if had been paid on time).
They may not feel it's worth it to work anymore overtime, as your effective tax rate between £100k and £125k is 60% as over £100k your tax free first £12k allowance ends up being eligible to be taxed.
TL used to be fairly good under FCC for the staff, as soon as GTR took over morale went to rock bottom.
Opening all these extra depots with depot specific routes just hasn't worked yet they won't change it.
Bringing in these LOMs to do all the admin and mfa work didn't go down to well as most of them felt like they had a point to prove, if you activated mfa you were on it no questions, didn't matter the reason so again morale has just dropped.
Has definitely gone downhill in the last few years, high intensity work means a lot of drivers don't want to work overtime as they're too tired.
With the way the roster works you will always work 7 days on if you do the Sunday so can be quite tiring especially if you are on nights and finish Wednesday morning to be back in at 5-6am Friday for another 7 earlies.
Basically you're wiped out for them 2 weeks before your long weekend.
Spare drivers are in the roster. A driver will have spare shifts every so often in the roster. You cannot have one spare driver based at a location on their own, as otherwise they wouldn't follow the roster, so would be no way for them to keep up all the route and traction knowledge.
If there aren't enough spare drivers in a full roster to cope with absence and off-tracks, then the establishment would need to be increased, and drivers would need more spare shifts within the roster
My money says there will be very little cross-cover or depot consolidation in future either.
When there’s already a self-inflicted vacancy gap, adding huge route and traction training programmes to the limited productive staff on hand makes no sense.
I was going to Sutton yesterday and felt like using Thameslink for a change from Southern. However, as 2 successive trains were about to be cancelled I kept to Southern after all.
When there’s already a self-inflicted vacancy gap, adding huge route and traction training programmes to the limited productive staff on hand makes no sense.
It does make sense in the longer term. We now have a pool of volunteers who can be deployed across depots. Vehicle and route knowledge has also been expanded within the depots. There were just too many restrictions before.
Sunday service running fine helped by reduced timetable of course but if thats achievable make it the Saturday service until driver shortages are resolved.
Sunday service running fine helped by reduced timetable of course but if thats achievable make it the Saturday service until driver shortages are resolved.
Sunday service running fine helped by reduced timetable of course but if thats achievable make it the Saturday service until driver shortages are resolved.
My money says there will be very little cross-cover or depot consolidation in future either.
When there’s already a self-inflicted vacancy gap, adding huge route and traction training programmes to the limited productive staff on hand makes no sense.
On the contrary having better route snd traction knowledge will make resource planning more robust, work more varied and reduce duplication, where now you would need a spare driver for white trains, then purple and then a third for the other purple trains.
It is very hard for anyone to do resource plans that mean anything in the real world, when a large sized town might have 3-4 depots, each with a relatively small headcount, none of whom can drive each others trains and many of whom are bored and looking for other openigs due to lack of variety.
I had a Thameslink driver from Brighton depot doing routes with me yesterday and the things he told me about Thameslink suggests it's not good. One example is that the Brighton drivers are having to learn the high level at st Pancras , even though they won't be allowed to drive there after learning it . He was released for a week to learn something he won't ever drive and to make matters worse the manager that was supposed to sign him off wasn't available , so he was told to take a second week.
Because there's some manager somewhere who's been told that's what they've got to get their drivers to do Because the manager above them has no Idea how the railway works.
Probably in reaction to some disruptive event, where a driver couldn't take a train into the high level because they didn't sign it
Brighton drivers have never signed High Level and never will. Also its not a week to learn Dock junction to High Level.
We have booked workings into High Level on a Sunday morning, for all 4 TL north depots.
Taken 319/377 2&5's /387 1&2's and 700's upstairs.
And to the OP there was major disruption on Friday to the Sutton trains (believe points failure in the Streatham area). For a while I think nothing ran as most units were in Cricklewood. My trip did run though.
It's now only Bedford link 2, st Albans and cricklewood drivers who sign the loop. Luton gave their work to Bedford at the last timetable change.
Brighton drivers have never signed High Level and never will. Also its not a week to learn Dock junction to High Level.
We have booked workings into High Level on a Sunday morning, for all 4 TL north depots.
Taken 319/377 2&5's /387 1&2's and 700's upstairs.
And to the OP there was major disruption on Friday to the Sutton trains (believe points failure in the Streatham area). For a while I think nothing ran as most units were in Cricklewood. My trip did run though.
It's now only Bedford link 2, st Albans and cricklewood drivers who sign the loop. Luton gave their work to Bedford at the last timetable change.
That's part of the point. Brighton drivers don't and will never drive high level , yet I had a Brighton driver with me route learning it and given two weeks to do so. It's the point that that driver isn't doing their black ink turns , so no wonder Thameslink are struggling. And you are spot on that it shouldn't even take a week. Dock is literally two signals and just over a half mile. One day should do.
On Saturday afternoon - Thameslink was only service from Redhill to Gatwick as GWR had engineering works. From 2pm to 5pm out of 12 train timetabled to call at Redhill, only 3 ran (1 very late), of the cancelled it was split around 50/50 between cancelled for staff shortages and cancelled by way of Quarry Line (i.e. missed Redhill).
75% cancellation rate and platforms full of passengers - many who will now use a car next time.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
!
