Possible prosecution for 20 year old daughter

[schar66]

My daughter has just called as are was distraught. She has unknowingly been travelling on an expired student railcard for the last 9 months.
She suffers with anxiety and is not great at remembering such things. She has made quite a few journeys to various places but unfortunately the Yrainline app does not notify you that the card has expired.
She was travelling on EMR Sheffield to Brighton and was interviewed. He filmed her and took photos of her journeys and took her details. He said she will get criminal record.
We are out our minds with worry. She has now bought a new railcard and paid to continue her journey from London.
Will we be able to settle out of court or do we need to accept that she is starting student life with a criminal record?
Any help would be much appreciated

 

[Gloster]

If it has only just happened there is little she can do until she gets the letter or e-mail from the railway or its agents, which could take anything from a few days to a couple of months. Firstly, is she sure that she gave correct contact details and she (or someone) will be able to monitor the incoming post or messages: they normally only give a week or two to reply to their initial letter? The letter/e-mail will look terribly intimidating, but it is a chance for her to explain. For a matter like this there is a good chance of resolving it with an ‘out of court‘ settlement, where she pays the cost of the journeys that she made without the correct tickets, plus a sum for their investigation costs, and they drop the matter so that it does not go to court and there is no criminal record.

When she gets the letter/e-mail she should post it in this thread with all identifying details (name, address, reference numbers, etc.) obscured and the experts will advise about the reply. However, once the letter arrives do not dawdle as there is only a limited window available to have the best chance of avoiding court.

 

[WesternLancer]

My daughter has just called as are was distraught. She has unknowingly been travelling on an expired student railcard for the last 9 months.
She suffers with anxiety and is not great at remembering such things. She has made quite a few journeys to various places but unfortunately the Yrainline app does not notify you that the card has expired.
She was travelling on EMR Sheffield to Brighton and was interviewed. He filmed her and took photos of her journeys and took her details. He said she will get criminal record.
We are out our minds with worry. She has now bought a new railcard and paid to continue her journey from London.
Will we be able to settle out of court or do we need to accept that she is starting student life with a criminal record?
Any help would be much appreciated

Welcome. And don’t worry/ panic.

She won’t get a criminal record if she co operates with them and engages with them to persuade them this was not deliberate evasion. She can get help every step of the way from here on what to do.

Immediately sorting out a new railcard and ticket was a good action to take.

When questioned did she give a correct postal address (home or term time) where she can be sure to get hard copy post? This is vital as they will write as part of their investigation and it’s critical to reply or it will escalate to prosecution so getting that letter is important. Also check e mail and spam and it might take some weeks to arrive.

Other threads give an idea how to reply.

It will be necessary to pay for tickets used with a railcard during the period it was expired. She should check her ticket buying records to work out what that will cost as any settlement offer will require prompt payment in full. Obv you can support her with that if you are able.

So prosecution can be avoided.

Post any questions that occur to you and you will get good info here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2024 ==

My daughter has just called as are was distraught. She has unknowingly been travelling on an expired student railcard for the last 9 months.
She suffers with anxiety and is not great at remembering such things. She has made quite a few journeys to various places but unfortunately the Yrainline app does not notify you that the card has expired.
She was travelling on EMR Sheffield to Brighton and was interviewed. He filmed her and took photos of her journeys and took her details. He said she will get criminal record.
We are out our minds with worry. She has now bought a new railcard and paid to continue her journey from London.
Will we be able to settle out of court or do we need to accept that she is starting student life with a criminal record?
Any help would be much appreciated

The failure of Trainline to have a system that does not leave default railcard settings against ticket purchases is a regular cause of problems seen on here like this. Just another reason to buy train tickets from a better retailer than them imho!

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

WHich train company are you dealing with over this - EMR or Thameslink (if she was caught between Sheffield and London it'll be EMR, between London and Brighton it'll be Thameslink)? Whichever one it is it is almost certainly sortable without having to go to court.

What will happen is the train company will write your daughter saying that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting. The letter will use quite threatening language but will ask for your version of events before they decide how to proceed.

I suggest a short, concise reply mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter
- It might also help if you tell them that you have renewed your railcard since the incident happened

Although we cannot guarantee it, most train companies will offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fares at full Anytime rate (possibly with no credit given for the tickets that were purchased) plus an admin fee, typically £150. The settlement usually has to be paid within a few days of it being offered, payment in installments isn't normally allowed.

When it comes, post a copy of the letter from the train company in this thread (with personal details redacted), along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[schar66]

Thank you for the quick replies. It is reassuring.
She gave our address so no issue with contact and have told her to watch for an email. I will post in here as soon as we receive anything. We will also support her with any payments as know it was a genuine mistake and she is mortified
You are all incredibly helpful and we are extremely grateful for the replies.

 

[Hadders]

Thank you for the quick replies. It is reassuring.
She gave our address so no issue with contact and have told her to watch for an email. I will post in here as soon as we receive anything. We will also support her with any payments as know it was a genuine mistake and she is mortified
You are all incredibly helpful and we are extremely grateful for the replies.

You're very welcome!

The letter is likely to be a hard copy via the post rather than email.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for the quick replies. It is reassuring.
She gave our address so no issue with contact and have told her to watch for an email. I will post in here as soon as we receive anything. We will also support her with any payments as know it was a genuine mistake and she is mortified
You are all incredibly helpful and we are extremely grateful for the replies.

Also check spam and any e mail accounts linked to her train line account if different from her usual e mail for example. But post by mail is the usual method of contact used for this sort of thing.

 

[Gloster]

Just to make one small point. If the railway makes an offer of an out of court settlement they will expect the sum to be paid in full within a few days. They very rarely offer payment plans and even when they do it is over a short period.

 

[schar66]

Just to make one small point. If the railway makes an offer of an out of court settlement they will expect the sum to be paid in full within a few days. They very rarely offer payment plans and even when they do it is over a short period.

Thank you. I have just calculated her journeys to total 1760 factoring in 200 in admin fees so are ready for that

 

[Gloster]

Thank you. I have just calculated her journeys to total 1760 factoring in 200 in admin fees so are ready for that

It is likely that their calculation will be based on the full Anytime Single fare for each and every journey, i.e. a return journey will be two fares: one Outward and one Return. Some companies give credit for what was paid, some don’t, so you need to take this into account and work on the worst basis.

 

[schar66]

Quick question if that is okay?
Having read up some of the other cases on here, my daughter wasn't given any paperwork or reference number at the time of being questioned. Don't know if that is of significance as she was suffering from a panic attack and asked to use the toilet so she could ring me. He had gone when she came out.

 

[Titfield]

The significance is that it means that no Penalty Fare or MG 11 was issued (those are other forms of dealing with ticket irregularities depending upon the type of of irregularity identified). A letter advising of the open investigation and seeking a response will arrive in due course.

 

[Honestviews]

The failure of Trainline to have a system that does not leave default railcard settings against ticket purchases is a regular cause of problems seen on here like this. Just another reason to buy train tickets from a better retailer than them imho!

I agree this can cause a problem and I have always purchased my railcard from a TOC. However in this case I am not sure it would have made a difference. If the OP's daughter forgot it had expired then she would have thought it was valid and manually selected she had a railcard.

 

[Snow1964]

When the letter arrives (which typically is 2-8 weeks, but might be bit longer), feel free to upload a copy for advice ( blank/ redact any dates, reference numbers, names or addresses), you can either copy it and scribble them out before photographing, or edit the photo with a paint over tool before saving it and uploading it.

This will allow members to tweak the good general advice already provided by Hadders, if there is something unusual.

In meantime, try and relax and not worry, you can't do anything further as you have no reference, and don't know which office to contact until letter arrives. It sounds like you have already compiled a list of potential journeys where railcard had expired. You might only get few days to reply and pay up to get settlement without proceeding to court.

 

[schar66]

Thank you so much for all the help.

It appears that EMR are cutting straight to the chase and just going for payment which seems to be their policy reading other cases on here.
They charged for all journeys since the expiry as expected but the total at 1200 (150 charges) was significantly less than I calculated.
A relief to get it cleared up so quickly and a mistake never to be repeated. 3 year railcard purchased and told not to use Trainline in future.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know. An expensive day but at least it's sorted.

Other ticket retailers are available who are usually cheaper than Trainline

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for all the help.

It appears that EMR are cutting straight to the chase and just going for payment which seems to be their policy reading other cases on here.
They charged for all journeys since the expiry as expected but the total at 1200 (150 charges) was significantly less than I calculated.
A relief to get it cleared up so quickly and a mistake never to be repeated. 3 year railcard purchased and told not to use Trainline in future.

Thanks for update. That’s a lot of travel to pay for but good that you have not had to face court threat.