GTR Shortage of Train Crew

[Elybob]

The last train from E&C to Sutton was at 22:40 today because every Sutton service afterwards was cancelled due to train crew shortage. The attached image shows the extent of cancellations.

When is this nonsense going to end? If anything it's gotten worse recently. It seems like the Sutton loop in particular gets the short end whenever there's a crew shortage

 

[transportphoto]

This topic was discussed relatively recently, here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...eterborough-route-decimated-yet-again.273984/. This discussion focused on Peterborough rather the Sutton loop but there’s definitely a lot of common ground!

 

[43066]

This topic was discussed relatively recently, here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...eterborough-route-decimated-yet-again.273984/. This discussion focused on Peterborough rather the Sutton loop but there’s definitely a lot of common ground!

A couple of Sutton Loop veterans have taken a pay cut to join my operator recently (albeit they can earn more with our rest day deal, should they wish to), which shows how dreadful their work is. Cricklewood and St Albans seem to be the worst depots. A good way to get a key, but you won’t want to stay there for long…

EDIT: apologies, that wasn’t a lot of help to the OP. I came to this post straight from the careers section - my bad.

Ultimately it depends on Thameslink driver establishment levels at the relevant depots, which will suffer high staff turnover due to the nature of the work. It’s difficult to predict whether and when the current situation will change, albeit there’s potential for it to improve now that the dispute has ended, and I gather they’re recruiting.

 

[7Sonofa7Son]

GTR have been like this for years now. Thameslink were always the worst for it as well.

 

[NSEWonderer]

It seems that Brighton and Three Bridges are the only decent depots at Thameslink.

 

[43066]

It seems that Brighton and Three Bridges are the only decent depots at Thameslink.

Bedford also always used to be dead mens’ shoes, and I think still has relatively decent work.

From a driver’s point of view, I’d always prefer guarded class one work, though.

 

[father_jack]

And I hate to chime in and say that that's DOO already....

 

[NSEWonderer]

DOO land

 

[43066]

And I hate to chime in and say that that's DOO already....

DOO land

Nobody has said TL isn’t DOO? Some depots are better than others work wise, though.

Edit: Sorry what I said was ambiguous - I was meaning to refer to what I’d said in post #3, re TL drivers joining my current operator.

I’ve never worked for TL, yet I have driven class 319 TL trains through the core. If you really know your onions you could deduce from that which operator I used to drive for, and narrow down where I used to work, to within a couple of depots .

(Answers are very much not required - it’s a rhetorical question only).

 

[Vexed]

Note this is pure speculation and guesswork from what I've seen. With the way the Sutton services are ran with drivers usually swapping at St Albans will cause issues with shortages of drivers - they can't leave a unit in the station if the next driver is unavailable, and there's not much spare capacity for terminating partial workings at Blackfriars bays from the south or St Pancras from the north. There isn't anywhere near St Albans to temporarily store units either.

So this means if drivers are not rostered/unavailable and there's no spare cover they need to do loads of cancellations to avoid units blocking platforms - so they send them empty to the depot (usually Cricklewood) instead. Which of course uses a driver!

And the way Thameslink route knowledge is set up there is very limited capability for other depots to cover.

 

[pk_sniper]

The last train from E&C to Sutton was at 22:40 today because every Sutton service afterwards was cancelled due to train crew shortage. The attached image shows the extent of cancellations.

When is this nonsense going to end? If anything it's gotten worse recently. It seems like the Sutton loop in particular gets the short end whenever there's a crew shortage

Maybe they know due to GBR they will not get this contract extended so not spending money on drivers training.

 

[jon0844]

Maybe they know due to GBR they will not get this contract extended so not spending money on drivers training.

As a management contract, surely the DfT decides on recruitment and training levels? They're paying for it.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Chaos at London Bridge right now as Brighton after Brighton train is cancelled

 

[800001]

Chaos at London Bridge right now as Brighton after Brighton train is cancelled

I can see so far today from 6am the following Brighton trains cancelled:-
07:05, 07:35, 09:05, 09:45, 10:45, 14:05, 16:45.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I can see so far today from 6am the following Brighton trains cancelled:-
07:05, 07:35, 09:05, 09:45, 10:45, 14:05, 16:45.

Brilliant, and it costs twice as much to go from Victoria now! I should be speeding through Quarry right now…

 

[sh24]

Extra stop at Three Bridges on my Southern service to Hove due to TL cancellations. Lots of people on the platform waiting for a Brighton train...

 

[43066]

Brilliant, and it costs twice as much to go from Victoria now! I should be speeding through Quarry right now…

The TL website suggests ticket acceptance is in place via Victoria.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

At leazt they've finally put stop orders on the 9Js but why does it taje so long

 

[baz962]

I had a Thameslink driver from Brighton depot doing routes with me yesterday and the things he told me about Thameslink suggests it's not good. One example is that the Brighton drivers are having to learn the high level at st Pancras , even though they won't be allowed to drive there after learning it . He was released for a week to learn something he won't ever drive and to make matters worse the manager that was supposed to sign him off wasn't available , so he was told to take a second week.

 

[RJ]

Extra stop at Three Bridges on my Southern service to Hove due to TL cancellations. Lots of people on the platform waiting for a Brighton train...

I wish the fast services between London and Three Bridges services were a bit more spread out - in both directions the Thameslink and Southern run approximately 4 minutes apart and they overtake every last stopper between Three Bridges and East Croydon!

 

[Snow1964]

The last train from E&C to Sutton was at 22:40 today because every Sutton service afterwards was cancelled due to train crew shortage. The attached image shows the extent of cancellations.

When is this nonsense going to end? If anything it's gotten worse recently. It seems like the Sutton loop in particular gets the short end whenever there's a crew shortage

To some extent it must have been decided to roster crews for the earlier trains, probably leaving later ones on overtime etc, rather than making sure alternative trains into the late evening were covered as part of core staffing, even if alternate evening trains were put in only covered on a wing and prayer category.

They know the timetable months (years) in advance, so not that hard to schedule staff for half the trains, so alternate ones will run, to avoid cancelling a sequence through to end of service.

 

[43066]

I had a Thameslink driver from Brighton depot doing routes with me yesterday and the things he told me about Thameslink suggests it's not good. One example is that the Brighton drivers are having to learn the high level at st Pancras , even though they won't be allowed to drive there after learning it . He was released for a week to learn something he won't ever drive and to make matters worse the manager that was supposed to sign him off wasn't available , so he was told to take a second week.

Two weeks release isn’t bad. Presumably they sign it as a diversion in case the core is messed up?

To some extent it must have been decided to roster crews for the earlier trains, probably leaving later ones on overtime etc, rather than making sure alternative trains into the late evening were covered as part of core staffing, even if alternate evening trains were put in only covered on a wing and prayer category.

That’s not how traincrew rostering works. As seen today, it’s early Brighton trains that have been affected.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Two weeks release isn’t bad. Presumably they sign it as a diversion in case the core is messed up?

As if there are ever spare platforms at STP to do that unless EMR aren't running. So seems pretty pointless and how would they retain route knowledge.

Pretty unusual to be fair to Tlk to be this short on a Saturday so is drivers using up leave allocation? Whatever am travelling down to South Coast and trains are very well used so the demand is there and the industry collectively needs to find a workable solution that ensures the train plan can be resourced at weekends.

 

[HerneHill]

As a management contract, surely the DfT decides on recruitment and training levels? They're paying for it.

Yes, there are successor operator non-frustration clauses in the NRC which mandate that TOC management must train and staff as per BAU up until the very last day of the contract period.

 

[baz962]

Two weeks release isn’t bad. Presumably they sign it as a diversion in case the core is messed up?



That’s not how traincrew rostering works. As seen today, it’s early Brighton trains that have been affected.

Literally told me that they won't be allowed and not even diversionary , so complete waste of time.

 

[MotCO]

which shows how dreadful their work is.

What is the issue? Boring routes / lack of variety? Difficult / unsocial rota hours? High concentration intensity?

 

[NSEWonderer]

I've only ever seen a Thameslink 377, 700 and 387 at St Pancras Higher level but those were strike days and Engineering works in 2015 which you couldn't get past lower level St Pancras international, I believe. Pretty sure 319s have in the old days on the same diversion in 2015 gone up there but since then I'm surprised Drivers still retain that as route knowledge

 

[Spartacus]

700s end up in St Pancras unplanned on occasions, but it's far from common. There's also times it is planned due to the core being shut for engineering.

 

[whoosh]

Wait until the backpay for the delayed pay deal gets paid. The overtime kings who the company have relied on to work their rest days, may well find their pay for this tax year going over £100k because the backpay is being paid in one lump in one tax year, rather than spread out over three tax years (as it would've been if had been paid on time).
They may not feel it's worth it to work anymore overtime, as your effective tax rate between £100k and £125k is 60% as over £100k your tax free first £12k allowance ends up being eligible to be taxed.


Watch Avanti's performance slip further as well.

 

[43066]

What is the issue? Boring routes / lack of variety? Difficult / unsocial rota hours? High concentration intensity?

A bit of all of the above. St Albans do almost all Sutton loops.

I've only ever seen a Thameslink 377, 700 and 387 at St Pancras Higher level but those were strike days and Engineering works in 2015 which you couldn't get past lower level St Pancras international, I believe. Pretty sure 319s have in the old days on the same diversion in 2015 gone up there but since then I'm surprised Drivers still retain that as route knowledge

700s were going into high level last weekend due to engineering. Not that common, but certainly happens when the core is blocked.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2024 ==

Literally told me that they won't be allowed and not even diversionary , so complete waste of time.

A former colleague of mine once drove a 319 into high level during disruption despite not signing it(!) Nobody ever said anything to him about it and he got an early finish .