Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[norbitonflyer]

701037 was originally allocated to the diagram but it had some kind of fault so 701036 will be put on to the diagram instead

037 out today

 

[Peter301184]

037 out today

It will be all week unless there's an unforseen problem.

 

[swtrains]

5T81 sees testing today on the Kingston loop via Richmond, 5T82 to Hampton Court, 5T83 back to Waterloo, 5T84 is a Kingston loop via Wimbledon. These paths use the same unit as yesterday (031). Excellent to see the outside displays finally on during testing.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q80035/2024-09-24/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q80033/2024-09-24/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q80031/2024-09-24/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q80029/2024-09-24/detailed

Other units on test today: 042, 025, and another one RTT isn't showing.

 

[TEW]

The next planned 701 diagram, potentially starting as early as Monday:
2H90 0523 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H89 0645 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H96 0800 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H93 1743 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H60 1836 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H69 1942 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H68 2041 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H67 2142 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H76 2241 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H77 2357 London Waterloo to Shepperton

 

[OneTrackMinded]

The next planned 701 diagram, potentially starting as early as Monday:
2H90 0523 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H89 0645 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H96 0800 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H93 1743 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H60 1836 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H69 1942 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H68 2041 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H67 2142 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H76 2241 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H77 2357 London Waterloo to Shepperton

While this is good progress, I am slightly disappointed to see this is yet another partial day diagram. Feels like we're still in the midst of the soft launch

 

[TEW]

Crew training has been going for what, six weeks now? There's still a very limited pool of crew to work with and a quick increase in the number of trains running just isn't feasible.

 

[swtrains]

The next planned 701 diagram, potentially starting as early as Monday:
2H90 0523 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H89 0645 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H96 0800 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H93 1743 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H60 1836 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H69 1942 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H68 2041 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H67 2142 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H76 2241 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H77 2357 London Waterloo to Shepperton

Interesting! Reason being 1. This diagram would suggest that a 701 would be stored in Strawberry Hill C.S.D, unless it runs specially from Wimbledon Depot, and 2. The diagram suggests it only goes via Wimbledon from 2H60 onwards, so in the evenings from 7. I'm guessing they've been cleared to run past Earlsfield now?

 

[GW43125]

While this is good progress, I am slightly disappointed to see this is yet another partial day diagram. Feels like we're still in the midst of the soft launch

I suppose the more important question is whether it is a full diagram-ie whether the 455s it replaces already spend most of the day at Wimbledon Park.

 

[TEW]

The plan does indeed to be for the unit to stable overnight at Strawberry Hill Depot. It can be swapped out as required during the daytime at Wimbledon Park. That diagram is currently as is with the daytime on depot.
701s are cleared Clapham Junction to Shepperton and Twickenham via Wimbledon now for passenger service. Or at least they will be imminently.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Interesting! Reason being 1. This diagram would suggest that a 701 would be stored in Strawberry Hill C.S.D, unless it runs specially from Wimbledon Depot, and 2. The diagram suggests it only goes via Wimbledon from 2H60 onwards, so in the evenings from 7. I'm guessing they've been cleared to run past Earlsfield now?

Indeed - the ECS workings would be
5H89 0511 Srawberry Hill CSD to Shepperton
5Y82 0910 Waterloo to Wimbledon Park CSD via East Putney
5H93 1712 Wimbledon Park CSD to Waterloo (via Earlsfield?)
5H84 0056 Shepperton to Strawberry Hill CSD

The via Wimbledon services have reporting numbers up to 2H78, those via Richmond start at 2H85

One typo - the 1742 Waterloo to Shepperton is 2H59 (not 69)

 

[Goldfish62]

Crew training has been going for what, six weeks now? There's still a very limited pool of crew to work with and a quick increase in the number of trains running just isn't feasible.

Indeed. I would say it's pretty good to be able to get to this stage in just six weeks.

 

[norbitonflyer]

(037) will be all week unless there's an unforseen problem.

036 on today

 

[pompeyfan]

Am I right in thinking the Sheppy line has not been signed off DCO and so the diagram mentioned above will be conventionally dispatched with the driver opening?

 

[swr444]

Am I right in thinking the Sheppy line has not been signed off DCO and so the diagram mentioned above will be conventionally dispatched with the driver opening?

I presume so, I guess the main priority is to just get them out and about

 

[43066]

Am I right in thinking the Sheppy line has not been signed off DCO and so the diagram mentioned above will be conventionally dispatched with the driver opening?

I presume so, I guess the main priority is to just get them out and about

If that’s the case, and the approach has now changed, it does make you wonder why they didn’t decide at a much earlier stage to simply focus on rolling the fleet out with conventional working, then bring in the DCO stuff later. That would surely have avoided a lot of the delays.

 

[Goldfish62]

If that’s the case, and the approach has now changed, it does make you wonder why they didn’t decide at a much earlier stage to simply focus on rolling the fleet out with conventional working, then bring in the DCO stuff later. That would surely have avoided a lot of the delays.

There was probably the point of principle that drivers had already received a significant pay rise for accepting DCO, and if everything was introduced with guard operation it would undoubtedly be made more difficult to subsequently introduce DCO.

Ultimately of course it's SWR's incompetence that means many of the stations are not passed for DCO. It's not like they've not had years to get it right.

 

[TEW]

Am I right in thinking the Sheppy line has not been signed off DCO and so the diagram mentioned above will be conventionally dispatched with the driver opening?

That's correct. It's not through lack of trying or to speed things up though. A lot of PTI test trains have ran down there over the past few weeks, but none of the stations have yet been cleared.

 

[43066]

There was probably the point of principle that drivers had already received a significant pay rise for accepting DCO, and if everything was introduced with guard operation it would undoubtedly be made more difficult to subsequently introduce DCO.

I agree the doggedness, and apparent refusal to change an approach that clearly isn’t working, does smack of a point being proved, rather than a pragmatic management decision. You’d hope people in responsible management roles wouldn’t be so petulant, but it does make you wonder. There isn’t any other obvious explanation (and this is the railway we’re talking about ).

If so, it’s hard to see what they thought they were achieving by pushing “no new trains until they can all be worked DCO” as an approach. It’s no skin of the drivers’ noses as they’re been paid for the change in Ts and Cs and continuing to work the old stock anyway.

All that’s has happened is that SWR management have been made to look stupid/incompetent due to the delays, the travelling public have lost out by not having the use of the new trains, and the taxpayer have had to continue to finance/maintain decrepit stock with the new fleet sitting idle.

Ultimately of course it's SWR's incompetence that means many of the stations are not passed for DCO. It's not like they've not had years to get it right.

Absolutely. Since the “issues” became apparent I’ve long thought the sensible thing to do would be to just get the new fleet into service and focus on the working method later. Based on recent posts, perhaps they’ve finally wised up.

 

[Hophead]

..... Since the “issues” became apparent I’ve long thought the sensible thing to do would be to just get the new fleet into service and focus on the working method later. Based on recent posts, perhaps they’ve finally wised up.

Or, perhaps the DfT have, since early July, become slightly less dogmatic about these things? It is, after all, ultimately their railway.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Or, perhaps the DfT have, since early July, become slightly less dogmatic about these things? It is, after all, ultimately their railway.

I suspect the string pulling by DfT could well be a significant factor.

 

[Nogoohwell]

If so, it’s hard to see what they thought they were achieving by pushing “no new trains until they can all be worked DCO” as an approach. It’s no skin of the drivers’ noses as they’re been paid for the change in Ts and Cs and continuing to work the old stock anyway.

Back in 2016, the government attitude was very different as the economy was doing well and it looked good to voters to cut costs. Any bid that promised less union affiliated staff, more frequent trains, less crowding and higher payments was always going to win. It had to be a radical change as SWT had tried everything else.

As for drivers, it is a big deal. Trap and drag is a real issue and safety is squarely on the drivers shoulders in this instance. As none of the stations were ever built with adequate lighting for passengers and many on curves with big gaps to the platforms, there is big safety gaps.

And its not as if the 701’s can go to guard operation easily as the rear cab is not set up for it and there is no space in the train either.

I suspect that DCO will come in on some lines once the full roll out is complete. SWR have tried to do too much at once and you cant do that with a fully working railway carrying 770,000 people a day.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Back in 2016, the government attitude was very different as the economy was doing well and it looked good to voters to cut costs. Any bid that promised less union affiliated staff, more frequent trains, less crowding and higher payments was always going to win. It had to be a radical change as SWT had tried everything else.

As for drivers, it is a big deal. Trap and drag is a real issue and safety is squarely on the drivers shoulders in this instance. As none of the stations were ever built with adequate lighting for passengers and many on curves with big gaps to the platforms, there is big safety gaps.

And its not as if the 701’s can go to guard operation easily as the rear cab is not set up for it and there is no space in the train either.

I suspect that DCO will come in on some lines once the full roll out is complete. SWR have tried to do too much at once and you cant do that with a fully working railway carrying 770,000 people a day.

I agree except that I feel the South Eastern and South Central must have had the same safety issues (curved platforms, old lighting) so why is South Western so far behind ?.

 

[Spekejunction]

I agree except that I feel the South Eastern and South Central must have had the same safety issues (curved platforms, old lighting) so why is South Western so far behind ?.

I remember that when Thameslink 12 car trains were first introduced a despatcher was positioned by the drivers cab and gave a green flag indication to the driver to confirm all was well before the train moved off.
i imagine as a confidence boost..don’t know how long it was done for..

 

[pompeyfan]

I agree except that I feel the South Eastern and South Central must have had the same safety issues (curved platforms, old lighting) so why is South Western so far behind ?.

Because standards have significantly changed, especially within the last 10 years. The benchmark should actually be GA who rolled out DCO in some very remote areas, however they already had DOO in some areas.

 

[Bumpkin]

The benchmark should actually be GA who rolled out DCO in some very remote areas

Surely that is why these things aren't massively comparable. A 4 car train on a remote station in Anglia is going to have a very different PTI risk than a 10 car train going through some very busy commuter stations?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

And its not as if the 701’s can go to guard operation easily as the rear cab is not set up for it and there is no space in the train either.

Not to doubt you, but is this true? I only ask because I've heard numerous conflicting responses from drivers and my managers about whether or not there are GOPs in the cabs. It all just seems to be very secretive and nobody seems to know for certain.

 

[DMckduck]

Not to doubt you, but is this true? I only ask because I've heard numerous conflicting responses from drivers and my managers about whether or not there are GOPs in the cabs. It all just seems to be very secretive and nobody seems to know for certain.

Each cab whether it's a fixed 10 or 5 car has 2 door control switches in it with 2 GOPs per coach

 

[pompeyfan]

Surely that is why these things aren't massively comparable. A 4 car train on a remote station in Anglia is going to have a very different PTI risk than a 10 car train going through some very busy commuter stations?

I never thought of it like that, you have a fair point.

 

[Goldfish62]

Surely that is why these things aren't massively comparable. A 4 car train on a remote station in Anglia is going to have a very different PTI risk than a 10 car train going through some very busy commuter stations?

But they also rolled out DCO with bodyside cameras for the first time on 10 car trains at very busy stations, as did SE with the 707s.

 

[gmaguire]

At Vauxhall I just heard a train announced as a “South Western Railway Arterio service”

I think it was 2U56 1751 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo