Rail Freight Flows and News UK

[littledude]

A newish flow from Burton to Cardiff Docks has started, carrying scrap metal - been running for a couple of weeks I believe.

This traffic has been running for a while AFAIK, but has recently been won by GBRf from DB Cargo

 

[geordieblue]

This traffic has been running for a while AFAIK, but has recently been won by GBRf from DB Cargo

I don’t *think* this is necessarily the same flow - a search for ‘Burton Cardiff scrap’ in Flickr doesn’t reveal anything relevant before the last couple of weeks, and I hadn’t spotted any relevant paths in RTT.
However scrap has been loaded at Burton in the not-so-distant past, I think most recently for Immingham (although I may be wrong there). The Burton-Acton spoil train, which is still running, is a DB working so that may be causing confusion.

 

[atillathehunn]

I don’t *think* this is necessarily the same flow - a search for ‘Burton Cardiff scrap’ in Flickr doesn’t reveal anything relevant before the last couple of weeks, and I hadn’t spotted any relevant paths in RTT.
However scrap has been loaded at Burton in the not-so-distant past, I think most recently for Immingham (although I may be wrong there). The Burton-Acton spoil train, which is still running, is a DB working so that may be causing confusion.

There was, at some point not so long ago, a train of 'metal' (not sure if scrap?) in VGA vans running from Burton to Cardiff.

There's a couple of pictures here (not mine, of course) from Martin Loader's website. http://www.hondawanderer.com/66011_Claydon_2023.htm & http://www.hondawanderer.com/66137_Tredington_2018.htm

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2024 ==

This picture on Flickr suggests that the train was carrying containers to Trafford Park - so seems like it was loaded? Agree that it seems unusual

Then I have absolutely no idea - that's a new one on me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2024 ==

I don't remember in much detail, except that I think maybe they appeared to be less well loaded as time went by. You can see in those two films, the one from Aug 2018 is carrying a lot of fresh air.

I found an article here

London to Duisburg and China freight service launched

UK: The inaugural scheduled freight service from DP World’s London Gateway terminal east of London to the Duisburg freight hub in Germany set off on April 10, with the load including containers bound for China. This follows demonstration China to London and London to China services which ran...

www.railwaygazette.com

So it ran at least from April to August 2018. I remember now, the actual train ran to London Gateway not Barking. Kind of a roundabout route... to end up somewhere that the containers could have arrived at directly by sea. Presumably Gateway offered a point where the containers could be transferred to trains going elsewhere, or just to lorries using the existing facilities. Daventry feels like it makes more sense somehow.

Yes that is a nonsense route. And given that the London Gateway complex is not electrified, it would require a loco change, inducing cost and complication.

You're right that Daventry would be a more obvious terminal. If they are able to offer inland customs, that would offer an advantage over lorries that need to do that on the approach to the channel ports.

 

[geordieblue]

There was, at some point not so long ago, a train of 'metal' (not sure if scrap?) in VGA vans running from Burton to Cardiff.

There's a couple of pictures here (not mine, of course) from Martin Loader's website. http://www.hondawanderer.com/66011_Claydon_2023.htm & http://www.hondawanderer.com/66137_Tredington_2018.htm

This is still running - it carries steel products (I think possibly wire) from the Celsa works to Burton. I initially mistook the new Cardiff-Burton runs as altered schedules for the Celsa traffic - since they have similar origin and departure points - but it seems both are continuing to run.

 

[atillathehunn]

Until several weeks ago now MOD trains would run every week and it was interesting to follow the meanderings of the GBRF loco as it served various locations. Marchwood (or occasionally Southampton Western Docks or London Gateway instead) and Kineton were regularly visited, Bicester and Longtown fairly regularly, Donnington, Ludgershall and Glen Douglas occasionally, Ashchurch and Warminster on rare occasions. I’d not noticed anything to the other locations that still have paths (e.g. Ernesettle, Shoeburyness, Haverfordwest). But I’ve not noticed anything like these in RTT for many weeks now, with the only movements from Marchwood being to other container terminals (there was an STP to and from Felixstowe South this week, but that appears not to have run), which might tie in with the statement above that Marchwood is now being used to store container flats.

I definitely did not realise there were weekly MOD trains. In fact, I thought the rail connection to Longtown had been severed.

Perhaps things just slow down in the summer like other industries.

 

[EastWest]

I definitely did not realise there were weekly MOD trains. In fact, I thought the rail connection to Longtown had been severed.

I think you are probably correct as MOD traffic I assumed was headed to Longtown only seemed to run as far as Carlisle New Yard in the weeks before it stopped altogether.
Towards the end of last year there were reports of a large new storage facility being built for the MOD at Longtown, and looking at them again now they stated then an anticipated date of October 2024 for completion. Perhaps the severing of the rail connection is in connection with this, and it will be reinstated once complete? Interestingly, one of the reports (by “Overt Defense”) states that the new site “will allow current older sites in Oxfordshire and Shropshire to be retired”, presumably referring to Bicester and Donnington. Anyway, it will be interesting to see if there is any resumption of traffic once the Longtown work is complete.

 

[Adrian Barr]

Does anybody know what (if anything) was conveyed in this week’s “MOD” working from Marchwood to Trafford Park and return? Recently there have also been workings between Marchwood and Southampton Western Docks, and Marchwood and London Gateway. Given, to judge by the paucity of trains for several weeks now, the MOD seem to be following Royal Mail in giving up on rail, I wonder if these might just have been swapping sets of flat wagons to utilise those the MOD are not now using?

As I understand it, the MoD traffic can be divided up between locations that can handle ammunition and those that don't. Roughly speaking, I think Glen Douglas / Longtown / Kineton are classed as "Ordnance depots" of one sort or another, and Marchwood is a "military port" in contrast to a regular port like Southampton which would be unlikely to be licensed to handle ammunition and military explosives in bulk alongside other dangerous goods containers in the docks.

Bicester is more of a general storage and distribution centre. There were a series of 3 good (although pricey) old Telerail videos about military sites (now on DVD) and two of them covered Longtown and Bicester:
https://www.telerail.co.uk/product/military-railways-the-bicester-military-railway/
https://www.telerail.co.uk/product/military-railways-the-longtown-military-railway/

I think Bicester (and MoD container services through regular docks like Southampton to civilian locations like Trafford Park) handle all the different kinds of stuff that the military use which isn't ammunition, which could be anything from vehicle parts to uniforms to tents to food, kit, office supplies. In former years it would have been more unusual to see an MoD train running to non-MoD container terminals, although one exception was the use of Wentloog to handle explosives from Glascoed in containers on wagonload services via Didcot. I think this change may reflect increasing use of third-party services for MoD logistics - even in those old videos I think they mentioned Kuehne & Nagel being involved.

The MoD container services can be distinguished by their use of FYA container wagons, which are rare on any other intermodal trains. Unlike similar FQA and FXAs which have modified suspension to give a slightly lower deck, FYA wagons are not compatible with W10 gauge restrictions when conveying "high cubes" which makes them fairly useless for regular intermodal traffic, but the MoD mainly seem to use 20ft standard containers. Occasional high cubes can be conveyed on FAA wagons (almost like well wagons really) with a lower deck. Outside of the MoD contract it would be strange to see GBRF locos hauling DB-owned FYA / FAA wagons. I don't think there is any crossover between the MoD fleet of FYA / FAA container wagons (hired from DB) and the regular intermodal fleet normally used by GBRF, or any stabling of non-MoD container wagons at Marchwood that I'm aware of. Wagon swaps between Eastleigh and Marchwood may be for maintenance.

This picture of a train from Longtown has both FYA and FAA wagons on it, although the low deck of the FAAs is not required for the containers loaded in this case: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ap86316/51886217452/

The picture that was linked in post #1376 shows a GBRF loco hauling DB-owned FYAs which is a good indication of an MoD service, even though it's to a regular container terminal.

Today's 6Z47 Marchwood to Doncaster Down Decoy sidings, is all empty flats.

I noticed that working on RealTime trains and kept an eye on it. It formed 4N06 to Tees Dock the following day and returned loaded as 4Z09 to Eastleigh Yard through Doncaster, with 20ft containers on FYAs for Marchwood. I was intrigued to see a couple of white containers with UN markings, in a similar plain livery to the ones shown in this unusual picture of a Donnington working (although the containers I saw were not reefer refrigerated units): https://www.flickr.com/photos/warspite14/50536468413/

4Z09 Tees Dock - Eastleigh is seen here passing Doncaster (I was over on platform 4 taking a similar picture from the other side!): https://www.flickr.com/photos/50963614@N03/53986520049/

a search for ‘Burton Cardiff scrap’ in Flickr doesn’t reveal anything relevant before the last couple of weeks, and I hadn’t spotted any relevant paths in RTT.
However scrap has been loaded at Burton in the not-so-distant past, I think most recently for Immingham (although I may be wrong there). The Burton-Acton spoil train, which is still running, is a DB working so that may be causing confusion.

Yes, the GBRF scrap service from Burton to Cardiff is effectively new traffic supplementing the existing scrap terminals served by DB from Cardiff (Rotherham, Swindon, Sunderland, Swindon, Kingsbury, Saltley). DB might have run a couple of Burton - Cardiff scrap trains at some point, but there hasn't been a regular Burton - Cardiff scrap flow in the past.

As you say, both DB and GBRF ran Burton to Immingham scrap trains (offloaded at the former NCB pad) for export by Ward recycling. All Ward scrap traffic on rail through Immingham ceased a while ago, but it's good to see it heading the other way from Burton for Celsa instead!
Nice action shot of a 6E66 to Immingham being loaded here at Burton: https://www.flickr.com/photos/captain_relentless/51395761569/
An equivalent DB service (also 6E66) is seen here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/89144442@N05/52476851151/

The "DestinationTrainsPlanes" channel has some good videos of Burton, "6M50 reverses across the main lines" being one example: https://www.youtube.com/@trainsplanes/search?query=burton

There was, at some point not so long ago, a train of 'metal' (not sure if scrap?) in VGA vans running from Burton to Cardiff.

As Willgreen says, this is wire rod from Celsa which runs once a week on average. I think it's typically fabricated into reinforcing mesh for use in general concrete applications, although similar wire coils are used to make things like nails and screws.

Years ago wire rod traffic used to run uncovered in SPA wagons, as seen here at Burton in 2010 with the machine used for offloading: https://www.flickr.com/photos/50619197@N07/4934515439/
I remember wire rod traffic for Burton was detached from the back of a train heading from Cardiff to the long-closed Wakefield Cobra steel terminal, which also called at Rotherham to detach traffic.
Nice shot of a loadhaul 56 on this working: https://www.flickr.com/photos/56249446@N06/30797988357/

One traffic I haven't seen out of Cardiff Tidal for a while now is reinforcing bar (thicker than the reinforcing coil, for use in load-bearing concrete beams e.t.c.) loaded onto BDA wagons. In the recent past it was sometimes conveyed to Rotherham along with the MBA wagons on scrap traffic, and before the end of wagonload services there were consignments sent to Mossend for offloading at PD Stirling.
BDAs with rebar are seen on the front of the old 6E58 working: https://www.flickr.com/photos/183142496@N04/52973039245/

 

[Ploughman]

In the recent past 1990 -91 other ports have ben used for Explosives traffic.
I recall seeing trainloads of material using the King George Docks in Hull and being forwarded on to the network by the Dock branch.
At least one train was stopped at Crabley Creek near Brough due to flames being spotted coming from a 4 wheel van after someone put a handbrake on. Full turnout of Emergency Services and suspension of rail service resulted.
Nothing went Bang thankfully although you could not have chosen a better location than Crabley Creek for desolate spots on this line.

 

[5562]

Heard a rumour the other day that Freightliner will soon be taking over the Mountfield to Soton gypsum workings. Anyone know if this is correct and if so a date.

 

[littledude]

Heard a rumour the other day that Freightliner will soon be taking over the Mountfield to Soton gypsum workings. Anyone know if this is correct and if so a date.

Yes, Freightliner have won the contract with British Gypsum. It was previous split between GBRF (Mountfield) and DB Cargo (Newbiggin) however this has now been amalgamated and Freightliner will operate the lot. Also of note is the intention to operate a new flow between Tees Dock and Gascoigne Wood, for BG’s production facility there. This currently goes by road.

 

[Freightmaster]

Heard a rumour the other day that Freightliner will soon be taking over the Mountfield to Soton gypsum workings. Anyone know if this is correct and if so a date.

First week of October - timings for the Mountfield working should remain roughly the same as they are now,
but the Newbiggin train will be rerouted to run via Hexham rather than Skipton.



MARK

 

[waverley47]

First week of October - timings for the Mountfield working should remain roughly the same as they are now,
but the Newbiggin train will be rerouted to run via Hexham rather than Skipton.



MARK

Reversing and running round in a rather complicated set of moves at Petteril Bridge Jn or going to Carlisle Yard to run round?

 

[5562]

Many thanks Mark.

 

[Freightmaster]

Reversing and running round in a rather complicated set of moves at Petteril Bridge Jn or going to Carlisle Yard to run round?

The latter.



MARK

 

[Trainman40083]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned.. One major thing that is restricting freight through the Channel Tunnel is loading gauge through Kent towards London. Network Rail were said to be investigating enhancing the loading gauge to W12, which if it went forward (cost circa £100 million), it would enable around 30,000 containers a year, from Europe to the UK to better move by rail. At the moment, most move by sea/road. Would be an ideal flow for future spare capacity on ECML. I guess over the years, container sizes have grown. For haulage by road, it makes little difference. For rail, there is clearance issues under bridges, tunnels, platforms etc. Just imagine the freight by rail of the whole of Europe had the same loading gauge.

 

[Gaz67]

First week of October - timings for the Mountfield working should remain roughly the same as they are now,
but the Newbiggin train will be rerouted to run via Hexham rather than Skipton.



MARK

Photted that today through Hellifield, possibly the end of the MEAs, shame about the new route, for me anyway, will miss it trundling along the S and C.

 

[AndrewE]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned.. One major thing that is restricting freight through the Channel Tunnel is loading gauge through Kent towards London. Network Rail were said to be investigating enhancing the loading gauge to W12, which if it went forward (cost circa £100 million), it would enable around 30,000 containers a year, from Europe to the UK to better move by rail. At the moment, most move by sea/road. Would be an ideal flow for future spare capacity on ECML.

er, what "spare capacity on ECML?"
We are told that there is no point expanding it S of Peterboro as there is no way of accommodating traffic nearer London, and HS2 isn't going to take any trafic off it for several decades yet.

 

[zwk500]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned.. One major thing that is restricting freight through the Channel Tunnel is loading gauge through Kent towards London. Network Rail were said to be investigating enhancing the loading gauge to W12, which if it went forward (cost circa £100 million), it would enable around 30,000 containers a year, from Europe to the UK to better move by rail. At the moment, most move by sea/road. Would be an ideal flow for future spare capacity on ECML. I guess over the years, container sizes have grown. For haulage by road, it makes little difference. For rail, there is clearance issues under bridges, tunnels, platforms etc. Just imagine the freight by rail of the whole of Europe had the same loading gauge.

NR ruled out W12 fairly quickly - the proposal was to go to W9A for Swapbodies rather than W12 for deep-sea containers. This is largely because the predominant traffic from continental Europe to the UK is road swapbodies, not deep=-sea containers.

 

[Condor7]

Photted that today through Hellifield, possibly the end of the MEAs, shame about the new route, for me anyway, will miss it trundling along the S and C.

I guess it’s ‘one man’s meat another man’s poison’ As I live at the northern end of the line I am happy, but also sad because it’s less of the line having freight when we need it to be having more.

 

[Bezza49]

Mention on WNXX of the Preston docks bitumen to be finishing soon, replaced by road transport. I cannot find any news of this anywhere else, but if true then it is a real disappointment.

I imagine some CEO is trying to save some pennies, but this is terribly misguided. And we now have to put up with all the lorries locally.

Getting the freight back originally required permission etc local complaints about noise - the usual gubbins. Would have to go through that all again, and in 2024 whoever complains loudest tends to win.

 

[Trainman40083]

er, what "spare capacity on ECML?"
We are told that there is no point expanding it S of Peterboro as there is no way of accommodating traffic nearer London, and HS2 isn't going to take any trafic off it for several decades yet.

Ah well, typo. Meant WCML!

 

[Gaz67]

I guess it’s ‘one man’s meat another man’s poison’ As I live at the northern end of the line I am happy, but also sad because it’s less of the line having freight when we need it to be having more.

Not all bad news, called in at Horton in Ribblesdale to view the new sidings being laid into the quarry, no track yet but groundwork progressing. Northbound again like Arkow so more trains up to Blea Moor. Couple of pics from yesterday.

 

[Trainman40083]

Just think, when they decide they do need a version of HS2 north off Handsacre, they will need an awful lot of ballast trains, instead of material to make slab track.

 

[AndrewE]

Ah well, typo. Meant WCML!

In which case, I agree! Roll on the Stafford bypass/HS2a/Midlands Capacity Upgrade! I'm quite optimistic...

 

[Trainman40083]

In which case, I agree! Roll on the Stafford bypass/HS2a/Midlands Capacity Upgrade! I'm quite optimistic...

I think the realisation is creeping in, why HS2 was the solution. Okay, it might get tweaked a bit. People talk about loads of empty seats on the Pendolinos, so why do we need HS2? The reality is more there is far, far more demand for trains on the WCML, than can be accommodated. That might be Milton Keynes to London, East /West to MK. More local trains Rugby to New Street, up Trentbarton Valley, Birmingham to Manchester, local services across Manchester, more freight flows, say Southampton to Trafford Park, Glasgow etc . People talk of high speed. That is possible on HS2 because they are not constrained by physical signals, points etc (and delays resulting from failure). It gives greater certainty of travel. It takes trains off lines where they do not stop, to allow other trains to stop. I think the future for rail is bright.

 

[Malaxa]

A new flow appears to have started this week, the first non-Tesco container service into Tilbury2 which also carries 45' boxes rather than the 20/40' variety carried into London Gateway on the previous, very well-loaded path from Trafford Park.
Here's an image of the sparse loading today:

66554

66554northampton250924 4L97 Trafford Park F.L.T. to Tilbury2 Container Tml Fl

www.flickr.com

The better established service to and from Wakefield carrying 45' containers uses the older Tilbury terminal.

The somewhat sporadic aggregate flows out of Tilbury2 appear to have ceased.
Perhaps someone can expand on these observations?

 

[Adrian Barr]

A new flow appears to have started this week, the first non-Tesco container service into Tilbury2

The first non-Tesco container service into Tilbury 2 was back in July 2022, when there was a short-lived DB service on the same route to Trafford Park, which abruptly ceased the following month!

It also carried 45ft boxes from Europe, but the issues with poor loadings are clearly demonstrated by this photo of 4M85 in August 2022: https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/52279690340/

The selection of containers can be seen in this side-on view of one of the first workings in July 2022 (the video title says Tilbury IRFT because Tilbury 2 borrowed the old Tilbury IRFT TOPS location and hadn't been updated in the computer systems to Tilbury 2). There's a good reference to container size codes here for anyone interested: https://www.bic-code.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/SizeAndType-Table1-3.pdf

Channel: Sydney Bridge TMD | Video: 66177 working 4M85 from Tilbury IRFT to Trafford Park Euro Terminal

For general interest to readers of this thread, there's a YouTube video of Tilbury 2 port operations titled "Tilbury2 Ro-Ro opening" which gives a good picture of operations within the port, although not the rail side (I'm sure P&O also uploaded some videos of the Ro-Ro vessels being loaded but they seem to have disappeared). For views of the rail infrastructure, the video titled "Drivers Eye View (Route learning aid) : Tilbury 2 Terminal" is worth watching.

This was my July 2022 post:

Another bit of news - DB are starting up a new intermodal flow from the "Tilbury 2" terminal at Tilbury Docks to Trafford Park, running in a lunchtime path from Tilbury. First train should be departing today.

For anyone not aware, "Tilbury 2" port development opened in January, and uses the connection to the main line which formerly served Tilbury Riverside and later Tilbury "IRFT" (International Rail Freight Terminal; it was used as a Stora paper terminal amongst other things). General plan of the site here, can't find anything more up to date - https://tilbury2.co.uk/the-application/proposed-arrangement-tilbury2/

The container terminal at Tilbury 2 should not be confused with the old Freightliner Tilbury RCT (Rail Container terminal), or the "London Container Terminal" (previously the old "Northfleet Hope" terminal, down the branch on the other side of the docks).

Tilbury 2 also has an aggregate loading facility. A seemingly unlikely departure last week was a rake of loaded Freightliner HHAs on a Tilbury to Norwich Trowse service, via Stratford, Brimsdown and Ely. It returned empty via Ely again and used the Seven Sisters - South Tottenham chord to access the line to Barking and Tilbury. A similar working was pictured in May; the caption to this photo of empties from Trowse says the train arrived in the morning from Tilbury - https://www.flickr.com/photos/132139568@N08/52087359905/

The somewhat sporadic aggregate flows out of Tilbury2 appear to have ceased.

I didn't know they'd ceased, but I certainly haven't noticed any aggregate running out of there for some time. I haven't been paying too much attention to that traffic; the last movements I noted were a few interesting movements in early April when Freightliner ran HHA hoppers to St Pancras and Paddington, and also MWAs to Park Royal. I haven't noted the Kennett or Trowse flows running since January, so I'm not sure exactly when they stopped. However, this does co-incide with an uptick in movements to Kennett from Mountsorrel, and to Trowse from both Mountsorrel and Tunstead. I seem to recall there had been a distinct lack of the usual Mountsorrel to Kennett and Trowse flows for a while, so it seems there was a shift of supply from the UK quarries to Tilbury and back again, with all the flows discussed here being Tarmac ones. A sporadic flow from Angerstein to Trowse is also worth noting, along with a couple of interesting movements from Moreton-On-Lugg to both Trowse and Kennett noted in August.

The old Tilbury Freightliner Terminal (RCT) is marked as the "Tilbury Bulk Rail Terminal" on the port website, and still loads aggregate for the FM Conway Asphalt plant at Theale (hauled by Freightliner), along with crushed recycled glass "cullet" (resembling sand) for URM to the Encirc glass factory at Ince & Elton (hauled by DB).

The Tilbury - Wakefield service uses the "London Container Terminal" at the end of the dock branch from the RCT, and London Container Terminal is also used by the Freightliner service from Wentloog to Tilbury.
This London Container Terminal uses the same sidings as the "Tilbury Maritime Railport" which handles the export tinplate coil traffic from Trostre, seen in a rare shot at the port when still hauled by GBRF:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139865875@N07/51834559902/

The port website has some interesting shots and info in its publicity:
https://www.forthports.co.uk/latest...opens-new-rail-connected-terminal-in-tilbury/
https://www.forthports.co.uk/rail/
https://www.forthports.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Combined-rail-inserts.pdf

 

[Malaxa]

Many thanks, Adrian for the detailed reply. I missed the 2022 operation, searching for "Tilbury2". The google satellite view[these tend to be updated every few years] shows the operation well.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[karlos]

I see in the news today is that Shotton Paper Mill is getting a £1bn investment to turn it into the UK's premier paper and card recycling centre where it will recycle a quarter of the cardboard waste that is currently being sent abroad. The mill still has a connection and sidings but they've been disused for at least a couple of decades now. I've not seen any mention of them making use of rail again but surely given the expected volumes they can't leave it all to road transport?

 

[The postiepat]

I see in the news today is that Shotton Paper Mill is getting a £1bn investment to turn it into the UK's premier paper and card recycling centre where it will recycle a quarter of the cardboard waste that is currently being sent abroad. The mill still has a connection and sidings but they've been disused for at least a couple of decades now. I've not seen any mention of them making use of rail again but surely given the expected volumes they can't leave it all to road transport?

Looking at Google maps a lot of track has been lifted unfortunately