Should Town Green and Aughton Park be skip stopped?

[Merseyrailfan]

At the present, the Ormskirk line takes 35 minutes to complete 12 miles to Ormskirk, I know Merseyrail is commuter rail network. But surely the non LCR stations like Town Green and Aughton Park could be reduced to a 30 minutes per hour service, to speed up the Ormskirk line and could the speed limit north of Maghull be increased to 70 mph like they did on Chester Line south of Hooton?

 

[Vespa]

I disagree services should run as advertised, if you start skipping stops you risk overcrowding trains during rush hour or push the commuters and leisure travellers to cars for little gain.

It would be much easier to get up 30 minutes earlier and catch the train if you wanted to get to Liverpool quicker.

If you absolutely must have a direct train to Liverpool, first early morning train could be run as an non stop express as there would be nothing else on the line, it becomes impossible once you start having stoppers running, skipping can cause bunching up of trains.

 

[daodao]

At the present, the Ormskirk line takes 35 minutes to complete 12 miles to Ormskirk, I know Merseyrail is commuter rail network. But surely the non LCR stations like Town Green and Aughton Park could be reduced to a 30 minutes per hour service, to speed up the Ormskirk line and could the speed limit north of Maghull be increased to 70 mph like they did on Chester Line south of Hooton?

No. There is significant housing close to both Town Green and Aughton Park stations, so the service should be kept as every 15 minutes. As some services are cancelled, the service to these 2 stations would become unusable. I have a personal interest, as my niece is a regular commuter from Town Green to Liverpool.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No. Keep it simple.

If you were going to do anything with express services the Southport line would be the place.

 

[LYradial]

No. Keep it simple.

If you were going to do anything with express services the Southport line would be the place.

All stations to hall road then express to exchange, I can just remember them.

bring back the good old days, ocean liners waiting on the tide, but perhaps not the dock labour system

 

[The exile]

At the present, the Ormskirk line takes 35 minutes to complete 12 miles to Ormskirk, I know Merseyrail is commuter rail network. But surely the non LCR stations like Town Green and Aughton Park could be reduced to a 30 minutes per hour service, to speed up the Ormskirk line and could the speed limit north of Maghull be increased to 70 mph like they did on Chester Line south of Hooton?

And how much time would be saved to contrast with the time lost by the Town Green and Aughton Park passengers? Keeping it simple and memorable (ie frequent identical clock face services) is far more valuable over all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And how much time would be saved to contrast with the time lost by the Town Green and Aughton Park passengers? Keeping it simple and memorable (ie frequent identical clock face services) is far more valuable over all.

I'd expect it to save about 2 minutes.

It is bad that the Ormskirk line has ended up at 35 minutes, though. Maghull North will have added a couple of minutes, but in the 1980s it was 25, it's slowed down by ten minutes over the years. The first step the wrong way was when hustle alarms were introduced, adding 10 seconds to each station stop (I think it went from 25 to 27 minutes then), and dispatch requiring local door closure before right away added another couple. But I'm not sure what else has slowed it down. The 777s were meant to be able to speed it back up again with their faster acceleration and DOO(ish) but there's been no sign of that yet.

 

[Djgr]

I

I'd expect it to save about 2 minutes.

It is bad that the Ormskirk line has ended up at 35 minutes, though. Maghull North will have added a couple of minutes, but in the 1980s it was 25, it's slowed down by ten minutes over the years. The first step the wrong way was when hustle alarms were introduced, adding 10 seconds to each station stop (I think it went from 25 to 27 minutes then), and dispatch requiring local door closure before right away added another couple. But I'm not sure what else has slowed it down. The 777s were meant to be able to speed it back up again with their faster acceleration and DOO(ish) but there's been no sign of that yet.

In my (relatively limited) experience, trains from Liverpool are held up outside Ormskirk waiting for the single platform to clear with the departing train to Liverpool.

Presumably a complete timetable redraft would be required to avoid this?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably a complete timetable redraft would be required to avoid this?

The issue is that Maghull North had to have an extra unit added - it only just worked before, and with the extra stop it didn't any more. I think it's 6 units rather than 5 now? That I guess means deliberately slowing it down to avoid that problem.

I wonder if a permanent change to the Hunts Cross being joined to the Ormskirk would help sort that out (it doesn't overly matter which it is in passenger terms because hardly anyone travels through across Liverpool). Southport has three electrified platforms (I think) so has more flexibility.

The other thing that would sort it out would be the proposed extra station near the Eldonian (between Moorfields and Sandhills), but that's gone quite quiet.

But I think this point answers the Aughton Park/Town Green question - if you skip stopped them you'd just wait those two minutes outside Ormskirk, so there's no sense in doing so. Though they have done it during the Aintree Races to make tighter diagrams with Aintree shuttles work.

 

[Djgr]

The issue is that Maghull North had to have an extra unit added - it only just worked before, and with the extra stop it didn't any more. I think it's 6 units rather than 5 now? That I guess means deliberately slowing it down to avoid that problem.

I wonder if a permanent change to the Hunts Cross being joined to the Ormskirk would help sort that out (it doesn't overly matter which it is in passenger terms because hardly anyone travels through across Liverpool). Southport has three electrified platforms (I think) so has more flexibility.

The other thing that would sort it out would be the proposed extra station near the Eldonian (between Moorfields and Sandhills), but that's gone quite quiet.

But I think this point answers the Aughton Park/Town Green question - if you skip stopped them you'd just wait those two minutes outside Ormskirk, so there's no sense in doing so. Though they have done it during the Aintree Races to make tighter diagrams with Aintree shuttles work.

There is no particular reason why Southport is the line that is direct to Hunts Cross.

If my memory is not playing tricks, the reopened line to Garston (upon electrification) was direct to Kirkby, which makes some sense as Liverpool Central to Headbolt Lane (as is now) is a pretty short run.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If my memory is not playing tricks, the reopened line to Garston (upon electrification) was direct to Kirkby, which makes some sense as Liverpool Central to Headbolt Lane (as is now) is a pretty short run.

I believe you're right - though you'd not do that pairing now as it'd require extra battery units.

It's currently Ormskirk so that 8 cars can run on Southports, though nominally only until the work is done to allow 8 car to Hunts X. Maybe it should be permanent.

 

[Bevan Price]

All stations to hall road then express to exchange, I can just remember them.

bring back the good old days, ocean liners waiting on the tide, but perhaps not the dock labour system

And bring back the 4 track section from Bootle to Liverpool that enabled the "fast" trains to overtake the "all stations" trains ?

 

[LYradial]

And bring back the 4 track section from Bootle to Liverpool that enabled the "fast" trains to overtake the "all stations" trains ?

May not be needed, I am thinking of creating an overhead monorail with very slim elegant pillars from seaforth along the waterfront to Brunswick and beyond, wonder what to call it

 

[Vespa]

There's another option, you can put rails in the road and central reservations using electricity to power railed vehicles, such a radical idea I'm trying think of a catchy name for that scheme

 

[LYradial]

If they use solar electricity then they will be ”green”, with a white stipe along each side they could run along a greenway, perhaps green gods or similar

 

[Kite159]

Even if you skip-stop those stations, all you will do is increase the time sitting at the signal protecting the single track section at Ormskirk station.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I'd expect it to save about 2 minutes.

It is bad that the Ormskirk line has ended up at 35 minutes, though. Maghull North will have added a couple of minutes, but in the 1980s it was 25, it's slowed down by ten minutes over the years. The first step the wrong way was when hustle alarms were introduced, adding 10 seconds to each station stop (I think it went from 25 to 27 minutes then), and dispatch requiring local door closure before right away added another couple. But I'm not sure what else has slowed it down. The 777s were meant to be able to speed it back up again with their faster acceleration and DOO(ish) but there's been no sign of that yet.

How can we enable the 777s to speed things up again? Maybe platform screen doors to speed things up on the loop stations, the underground stations in Birko, and as far north as Kirkdale/Bootle Oriel Road + Brunswick?