Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[WarrenT]

I'm sure this question has been asked once before but I don't feel like sifting through 7350 posts so I'll ask again.

Why are the 777's 4 cars instead of 3 despite only being only a couple of feet longer. Surely by having 3 cars and the same length as the new trains they would have a higher capacity as there would be one less gangway. For a 4 car train the 777 is very short. The only reason I can think of such short coaches is due to tight turns on future network expansions. Couldn't be because of tight turns on the current network because the 507/8's had longer coaches and have been fine. Also why are the driving coaches longer and only 1 door per side, again I have no clue for this because it wont effect door opening at the likes of Green Lane because the front and back door still wont open as an 8 car set.

 

[simonmpoulton]

If I am remembering correctly it is to reduce the wear around the loop line under Liverpool. There were many derailments in the past attributed to the incompatibility of the 507/508’s around the loop causing uneven wear.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I am remembering correctly it is to reduce the wear around the loop line under Liverpool. There were many derailments in the past attributed to the incompatibility of the 507/508’s around the loop causing uneven wear.

Also because articulation means shorter vehicles because you don't have the bit overhanging at the end.

Regarding the doors it was to avoid needing to extend platforms, but it appears they've done that anyway.

 

[Skie]

There are a bunch of reasons:
Reducing wear under loop and on tight curves
Using a jacobs bogie between carriages so less bogies despite more carriages
Lighter bogies + less of them = lighter train = lower track access charge

The driving carriage doors were single to allow the cab ends to overhang the platforms to avoid needing extensions, but it was a bit of a white elephant as safe ways of working mean the cab door should be accessible when in a platform, hence the extensions required at some stations.

On another note, it looks like dwell times are reducing as the crews get used to the units and procedures. Been on many Southport services this week that were arriving ahead of time to each stop so had a somewhat relaxed dwell to avoid leaving early, then a few that had picked up a minute or two delay with ~45 second dwells which got them back on time. Lots of Southport services arriving there 3 minutes early now.

 

[prod_pep]

On another note, it looks like dwell times are reducing as the crews get used to the units and procedures. Been on many Southport services this week that were arriving ahead of time to each stop so had a somewhat relaxed dwell to avoid leaving early, then a few that had picked up a minute or two delay with ~45 second dwells which got them back on time. Lots of Southport services arriving there 3 minutes early now.

This is more down to the running time from Liverpool to Southport having been extended by three minutes than anything else.

 

[50002Superb]

Had a day on the MerseyRail today and saw the following workings

Ormskirk Diagrams: 005 / 009 / 011 / 012 / 015 / 016 / 020 / 024
Southport Diagrams: 013 / 021 / 023 / 034 / 041 / 043 / 045 / 051
Headbolt Lane Diagrams: 140 / 144 / 148 / 152
Chester Diagrams: 008 / 022 / 030 / 033 / 036 / 047
Ellesmere Port Diagrams: 018 / 028 / 049
New Brighton Diagrams: 001 / 007 / 026 / 027
West Kirkby Diagrams: 003 / 014 / 037 / 039

 

[childwallblues]

A friend travelled on 777150 on the 0906 Hunts Cross to Ormskirk this morning.

 

[dave6]

Having spent a day last week 'enjoying' these units for the first time, I was struck by the almost redundant air at Birkenhead North depot. Once the few remaining Class 507's depart will it just be left to maintain the Class 230's or will some 777's go there for maintenance/servicing.

 

[brad465]

Did my first trips earlier today on 777s going between James Street and West Kirby, very spacious and good atmosphere within, also seem to have very good acceleration. Pity some of the stations are not as modern-looking (IMO they're in that period in between genuine good heritage and modern practical for today if they make sense).

 

[Ellis101]

I’m really hoping we’ll see 8 cars on hunts cross - southport sometime in the near future this was took just after leaving aigburth…

 

[karlbbb]

The stretch from Central to Hunts Cross is still awaiting some trackside equipment to facilitate SDO on 8-car units. I'm not sure if there's any ETA on that being in place, so the Ormskirk-Hunts Cross trains will remain 4-car for now.

 

[baldyman26]

Ok little gripe over that photo, the majority of those people will get off in town, 10 min max from Aigburth, it's hardly the end of the world is it.. Crowding like that is on say a few trains in the morning and evening, again maximum journey time roughly 15 min, and you will also have another train 15 minutes behind that too... Get on the underground in London where trains are every 3-4 mins and still much more packed throughout the day, I really think some people are a bit spoilt on Merseyside. Yes Merseytravel and Stadler have made an absolute dogs dinner of this project, but with the greatest of respect if you can stand there reading a book I'd hardly call it crush laden. I also see buses completely full too - can't join 2 of them together. Bit of perspective here.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Ok little gripe over that photo, the majority of those people will get off in town, 10 min max from Aigburth, it's hardly the end of the world is it.. Crowding like that is on say a few trains in the morning and evening, again maximum journey time roughly 15 min, and you will also have another train 15 minutes behind that too... Get on the underground in London where trains are every 3-4 mins and still much more packed throughout the day, I really think some people are a bit spoilt on Merseyside. Yes Merseytravel and Stadler have made an absolute dogs dinner of this project, but with the greatest of respect if you can stand there reading a book I'd hardly call it crush laden. I also see buses completely full too - can't join 2 of them together. Bit of perspective here.

Living in London. I agree - I probably stand for more than 50% of my time on London trains and busses but that does not make it right ?. Longer distance I am guaranteed a seat by coach not train. I do not think it is fair to pay for a seat and stand anywhere in the UK. How about a third class fare that does not entitle the traveller to a seat ?. Not going to happen because the railways would lose a lot of money.

 

[Djgr]

Did my first trips earlier today on 777s going between James Street and West Kirby, very spacious and good atmosphere within, also seem to have very good acceleration. Pity some of the stations are not as modern-looking (IMO they're in that period in between genuine good heritage and modern practical for today if they make sense).

Gosh Which stations get the thumbs down?

Leasowe to Hoylake which are all 1930s Art Deco rebuilds (with Manor Road new), with Hoylake Grade 2 Listed?
Hamilton Square Grade 2 Listed?
Conway Park-dates from the millennium.
Birkenhead Park and Birkenhead North-lifts installed and massive 600+ park and ride created at North.

 

[simonmpoulton]

I believe 777033 failed today whilst it was running on the Chester line and replaced with 507029. 777033 was parked up at Hooton!

 

[WirralLine]

I believe 777033 failed today whilst it was running on the Chester line and replaced with 507029. 777033 was parked up at Hooton!

Failed the tripcock test at Birkenhead Central so was unable to proceed underground

 

[TRAX]

Failed the tripcock test at Birkenhead Central so was unable to proceed underground

What does the tripcock test consist of exactly ?

 

[Skie]

What does the tripcock test consist of exactly ?

Lineside equipment tests that the trains tripcock is in working order (basically that it is in the right location to be hit by the lineside trainstop arms that are in a raised position when a signal is set to danger) and the TT light extinguishes to indicate all is good and the train can proceed into the underground section.

If the light fails to be extinguished, then the train cannot proceed into the area protected by tripcocks.

 

[TRAX]

Lineside equipment tests that the trains tripcock is in working order (basically that it is in the right location to be hit by the lineside trainstop arms that are in a raised position when a signal is set to danger) and the TT light extinguishes to indicate all is good and the train can proceed into the underground section.

If the light fails to be extinguished, then the train cannot proceed into the area protected by tripcocks.

Is this done during commercial service on the running line during every trip or before the train is brought into service ?

 

[Grumpy Git]

Is this done during commercial service on the running line during every trip or before the train is brought into service ?

During commercial service. There's one at the northern end of the Southport bound platform at Cressington.

 

[Skie]

Is this done during commercial service on the running line during every trip or before the train is brought into service ?

All trains, including MPVs, are tested every time they need to enter the underground sections regardless of if they're ECS or passenger. It's an additional safety feature to apply the brakes if they pass a signal at danger. The testing equipment is on approach to all of the protected areas (in a location that a train failing the test can be easily be turned back), as well as at places a service regularly turns around. The most obvious one is the TT indicator at Liverpool Central on platform 2 at the Soutport end.

You can hear the trainstop arms being raised on the underground sections fairly clearly, as they're lowered by a motor with a distinctive whine when the signal changes to a proceed aspect.

 

[TRAX]

All trains, including MPVs, are tested every time they need to enter the underground sections regardless of if they're ECS or passenger. It's an additional safety feature to apply the brakes if they pass a signal at danger. The testing equipment is on approach to all of the protected areas (in a location that a train failing the test can be easily be turned back), as well as at places a service regularly turns around. The most obvious one is the TT indicator at Liverpool Central on platform 2 at the Soutport end.

You can hear the trainstop arms being raised on the underground sections fairly clearly, as they're lowered by a motor with a distinctive whine when the signal changes to a proceed aspect.

I suppose the testing equipment doesn’t actually stop the train, so what does it do ?

 

[jamesst]

I suppose the testing equipment doesn’t actually stop the train, so what does it do ?

The testing equipment can actually stop the train, if it does that's counts as a failure.

The equipment can give out 4 results.

If the corresponding 'TT' light Is extinguished and the brakes don't come on then the train has passed the test and can continue in service.
if its any other result other than that ^ then the unit has failed the test.

 

[TRAX]

Very interesting, thanks guys.

 

[childwallblues]

Having spent a day last week 'enjoying' these units for the first time, I was struck by the almost redundant air at Birkenhead North depot. Once the few remaining Class 507's depart will it just be left to maintain the Class 230's or will some 777's go there for maintenance/servicing.

David Powell was at the RCTS meeting at Bromborough on Monday evening. He said that Birkenhead North EMU Depot will only do servicing on the 777s once the 507s depart. All maintenance on them will continue to be at Kirkdale which has been equipped for that purpose. Contracted work for TfW on the 230s will continue.

 

[WarrenT]

Passed a 777 in West Kirby siding this morning. It appeared to have a white nameplate on the top half of the train. Any idea what this was?

 

[cjbirkett]

Passed a 777 in West Kirby siding this morning. It appeared to have a white nameplate on the top half of the train. Any idea what this was?

If it was 041 it's named Sir Samuel Cunard. That's the only 777 I'm aware of with a name

 

[dave6]

David Powell was at the RCTS meeting at Bromborough on Monday evening. He said that Birkenhead North EMU Depot will only do servicing on the 777s once the 507s depart. All maintenance on them will continue to be at Kirkdale which has been equipped for that purpose. Contracted work for TfW on the 230s will continue.

Thanks for the info

 

[MR-507508]

A second attempt led 777053 over to the Wirral running ECS to Birkenhead North depot this evening (5T83), the first time on the Wirral perhaps?

Has 777053 been accepted into service yet?

I don't think its made it into passenger service?

Realtime Trains | 5T83 1855 Kirkdale C.S. to Birkenhead North | 21/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 5T83 1855 departure from Kirkdale C.S. to Birkenhead North on 21/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[1D54]

So how many are yet to be accepted into service? I had an hour at Sandhills yesterday and the same at Central and saw 34 of them.

Only ones I've not seen are 029/033/043/053/144/152.