Caught travelling without a railcard.

[_Jack_99]

Long story short, my railcard expired on April 30th this year. I commute to work (one station away) 4 days a week, so have been travelling since then with tickets with ‘railcard’ ticked when I didn’t actually have one. I was never asked, until today. Turns out it’s expired. The lady took a picture of my expired railcard and asked how often I travelled, which I admitted (perhaps stupidly, but this was an honest mistake and I was caught off guard). I signed the report and she submitted it; said to expect a letter.
The price of a standard singly ticket for my journey is apparently £6 and I estimate I’ve made this journey maybe 30ish times since the card expired. So, what now? Will they know how many times I’ve travelled just from my name and address, how much is a fine likely to be and what are the chances I’ll actually be prosecuted?

 

[AlterEgo]

Which train company are you dealing with here? And, have you been buying your tickets online, or at a railway station/ticket machine?

 

[_Jack_99]

Which train company are you dealing with here? And, have you been buying your tickets online, or at a railway station/ticket machine?

It’s Northern rail and online, on the Trainline app

 

[signed]

Will they know how many times I’ve travelled just from my name and address

If you buy your tickets online, they can get your ticketing history.

how much is a fine likely

If you get a out-of-court settlment, count the undiscounted Anytime single (one return = 2 singles) * how many times you did it + ~£150 of admin fees. You would need to pay it at once in a 21 days period.

Now, you will recieve a letter in threatening language in a month minimum, you must answer to it, else they will for sure prosecute.

 

[MotCO]

Do you have a 16-25 Railcard, and do you commute between 4:30am and 10:00am Monday to Friday? If so, there is a minimum fare of £12, which is obviously more than the £6 fare you mentioned above. In which case there may be another angle to this situation.

Now, you will recieve a letter in threatening language in a month minimum, you must answer to it, else they will for sure prosecute.

When you receive the letter, post it on this thread with all personal details obscured. We will then be able to give advice on your next steps.

 

[John R]

Your estimate of the number of times you’ve bought incorrect tickets looks low, given what you say. It might be worth checking your Trainline account yourself to find the exact number. As well as the possible cost, it will be better to be fully informed when you are dealing with the revenue protection team in due course.

 

[realemil]

If you are still within the validity of being able to obtain a 16-25 railcard, I would personally recommend that purchasing one is worthwhile.

While it's unlikely that Northern will decide to throw away the case, it may help your case if you were to also include the fact that you've since purchased a new railcard.

 

[AlterEgo]

Apart from the other questions members have raised - you mention you commute only one stop, four days a week (yet only 30 times in four months - which is right?). When they trawl your booking history will they see that your home address is consistent with the station your tickets have been purchased from?

 

[sigma421]

Do you have a 16-25 Railcard, and do you commute between 4:30am and 10:00am Monday to Friday? If so, there is a minimum fare of £12, which is obviously more than the £6 fare you mentioned above. In which case there may be another angle to this situation.



When you receive the letter, post it on this thread with all personal details obscured. We will then be able to give advice on your next steps.

Doesn't apply in July and August, which would cover a significant part of the period.

 

[Haywain]

Doesn't apply in July and August, which would cover a significant part of the period.

Not actually having a railcard applies all year round.

 

[sigma421]

Not actually having a railcard applies all year round.

of course! Was just explaining why it may have been used on a £6 fare

 

[_Jack_99]

Apart from the other questions members have raised - you mention you commute only one stop, four days a week (yet only 30 times in four months - which is right?). When they trawl your booking history will they see that your home address is consistent with the station your tickets have been purchased from?

Sorry, I should be clear. I was getting the bus for most of June and July as kids were off school and the roads were quiet, I get the bus on Saturdays and I get the bus home in the evening as well. So 30 singles is based off of me skimming my trainline account and counting up how many tickets were there, it might be off by a few.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2024 ==

If you are still within the validity of being able to obtain a 16-25 railcard, I would personally recommend that purchasing one is worthwhile.

While it's unlikely that Northern will decide to throw away the case, it may help your case if you were to also include the fact that you've since purchased a new railcard.

Yes, I have done this. I’ve always had one as well until this last few months.

 

[Titfield]

Sorry, I should be clear. I was getting the bus for most of June and July as kids were off school and the roads were quiet, I get the bus on Saturdays and I get the bus home in the evening as well. So 30 singles is based off of me skimming my trainline account and counting up how many tickets were there, it might be off by a few.

So you go to work by train (except in the school holidays when you go by bus as the roads are quieter) and come home by bus all the time.

You may find that the Train Operating Company may not accept this at face value and ask for some proof though it is of course for them to prove wrong doing.

They may simply decide to proceed to court for the one occasion when they have proof of travelling without a valid ticket.

 

[_Jack_99]

So you go to work by train (except in the school holidays when you go by bus as the roads are quieter) and come home by bus all the time.

You may find that the Train Operating Company may not accept this at face value and ask for some proof though it is of course for them to prove wrong doing.

They may simply decide to proceed to court for the one occasion when they have proof of travelling without a valid ticket.

I’m not sure what this has to do with anything? I occasionally get the train home and I’ll have ticket receipts for these occasions. Are you saying they’ll just assume I actually get the train every day and return on it as well but without a ticket?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@_Jack_99. Probably Northern will just look at each and every (inappropriately) discounted rail ticket that you've purchased since the previous railcard expired at the end of April. If they've all been bought online via the likes of Trainline, that's easy enough for them to determine. If you've paid by cash or card at a TVM, it won't be so easy.

 

[AlterEgo]

I’m not sure what this has to do with anything? I occasionally get the train home and I’ll have ticket receipts for these occasions. Are you saying they’ll just assume I actually get the train every day and return on it as well but without a ticket?

That would depend a lot on what the stations were and whether they had barriers.

 

[Titfield]

I’m not sure what this has to do with anything? I occasionally get the train home and I’ll have ticket receipts for these occasions. Are you saying they’ll just assume I actually get the train every day and return on it as well but without a ticket?

The point is that the Train Operating Company may decide to prosecute you (for the one occasion you were caught without a valid ticket ) or may decide to offer you an out of court settlement. It is in your interests for them to offer you an out of court settlement as generally speaking that would cost you less financially and avoid you getting a criminal record.

Companies offer out of court settlements to those fare evaders who engage, apologise, are contrite and convince them that they will not fare evade again. The more times you have fare evaded the less likely it is that they will offer you an out of court settlement because repeated fare evasion demonstrates (a) it is not a genuine mistake (b) that you show a disregard for paying the fare due and therefore are more likely to fare evade in the future.

If they examine your online booking record and it shows one way journeys with no corresponding return ticket they may decide that you have chosen not to buy a ticket for the return journey and have travelled without a ticket. This may make them decide to prosecute rather than offer an out of court settlement.