Milton Keynes <> Sheffield

[Esker-pades]

Is there a return ticket I can buy that would allow the following route?

Milton Keynes to Stockport
Stockport to Sheffield
Sheffield to Tamworth
Tamworth to Milton Keynes

The journey would be split over a couple of days. I am happy to use the stopping service on the Hope Valley.

Thanks!

 

[30907]

First thought is an Offpeak return to somewhere like Hope with a change of route excess to allow you to go one way and come back the other.

1. Where do you want to stop overnight?
2. Would you be able to do the trip in reverse, as the VIA CHESTERFIELD fare has effectively no restrictions (2T)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Genuinely surprised MKC-Sheffield isn't valid via Manchester, it's the first route that would come to mind given the service patterns available! Agree that perhaps a Hope Valley station may be a good bet, unless Advances are a reasonably priced and feasible option.

 

[Esker-pades]

My first thought was Hope, but forcing National Rail Enquiries to travel via Stockport gave an itinerary but no tickets available. Baffling.

Overnight is in Sheffield.

Unfortunately, I basically have to get back as quickly as possible so doing the Hope Valley route on the return is not an option.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My first thought was Hope, but forcing National Rail Enquiries to travel via Stockport gave an itinerary but no tickets available. Baffling.

Is that because of Avanti's fake compulsory reservations and fares not having been released yet on the day concerned?

 

[JonathanH]

Genuinely surprised MKC-Sheffield isn't valid via Manchester, it's the first route that would come to mind given the service patterns available!

While the service patterns may make it seem obvious, a look at a map indicates why it would not be.

Milton Keynes - Manchester - Sheffield is 176 miles via Hixon.

Milton Keynes - Tamworth is 60 miles and Tamworth - Sheffield is also 60 miles.

My first thought was Hope, but forcing National Rail Enquiries to travel via Stockport gave an itinerary but no tickets available. Baffling.

Overnight is in Sheffield.

Unfortunately, I basically have to get back as quickly as possible so doing the Hope Valley route on the return is not an option.

Separate via Manchester, and via Chesterfield fares apply from Milton Keynes to Hope, and no advances, so changing at Stockport doesn't fulfil either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While the service patterns may make it seem obvious, a look at a map indicates why it would not be.

Milton Keynes - Manchester - Sheffield is 176 miles via Hixon.

Milton Keynes - Tamworth is 60 miles and Tamworth - Sheffield is also 60 miles.

UK fares are not distance based so that's totally irrelevant.

MKC-Manchester is about £15 cheaper than MKC-Sheffield based on the off peak return so there's not a fare-avoidance reason why either.

Ah, the Anytime to Sheffield is cheaper so that is probably why. Bit silly not to have a via Manchester fare though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2024 ==

Separate via Manchester, and via Chesterfield fares apply from Milton Keynes to Hope, and no advances, so changing at Stockport doesn't fulfil either.

If there are geographically routed fares the more expensive one is de-facto valid via all routes, or if you prefer buy the cheaper one and excess it in one direction.

 

[JonathanH]

UK fares are not distance based so that's totally irrelevant.

The decisions about permitted routeing, made at the point of defining those permitted routes, are likely to have still taken into account whether a route is a significant deviation from the shortest one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The decisions about permitted routeing still take into account whether a route is a significant deviation from the shortest one.

Once you get into mapped routes they do no such thing.

 

[Esker-pades]

While the service patterns may make it seem obvious, a look at a map indicates why it would not be.

Milton Keynes - Manchester - Sheffield is 176 miles via Hixon.

Milton Keynes - Tamworth is 60 miles and Tamworth - Sheffield is also 60 miles.


Separate via Manchester, and via Chesterfield fares apply from Milton Keynes to Hope, and no advances, so changing at Stockport doesn't fulfil either.

Would some kind of easement apply for next week where the Hope Valley stoppers are running via Stockport vice Marple?

 

[JonathanH]

Once you get into mapped routes they do no such thing.

I think we are at cross purposes.

Someone, when devising the mapped routes for Milton Keynes to Sheffield, has decided that it the distance via Manchester is too far from the more direct route to set it as a mapped route. That is likely to be a decision based on the distance and the operators historically involved.

I totally agree that different mapped routes could have very different overall mileage and both be valid, but they have to be mapped first.

Would some kind of easement apply for next week where the Hope Valley stoppers are running via Stockport vice Marple?

From a practical perspective, the double back from Stockport to Manchester wouldn't be necessary on a walk-up ticket. It is just break of journey and recommencement.

Journey planners can't show that though.

 

[30907]

My first thought was Hope, but forcing National Rail Enquiries to travel via Stockport gave an itinerary but no tickets available. Baffling.

Overnight is in Sheffield.

Unfortunately, I basically have to get back as quickly as possible so doing the Hope Valley route on the return is not an option.

There are VIA MANCHESTER fares which you would then excess to the VIA CHESTERFIELD fare (before getting to Hope/Hathersage!)
Provided you can leave MKC after 0951, have time for business in Stockport and make Sheffield on a stopper that night, this should be fine.
You do not need reservations, so you could force an itinerary using LNR.

 

[kieron]

One thing to note is that the data for "via Chesterfield" fares has an extra restriction to say that journeys may not be from, to or via Milton Keynes Central. It's still valid on that route (as it's only in data which isn't shown to the customer), but this may make it harder to prove.

If you pay a bit more for a "not via London" Cheddington-Hope ticket (£94 off peak return with no discount), this doesn't happen.

 

[30907]

One thing to note is that the data for "via Chesterfield" fares has an extra restriction to say that journeys may not be from, to or via Milton Keynes Central. It's still valid on that route (as it's only in data which isn't shown to the customer), but this may make it harder to prove.

A ticket from MKC cannot be used from MKC?!

If you pay a bit more for a "not via London" Cheddington-Hope ticket (£94 off peak return with no discount), this doesn't happen.

A good spot for less than £2 difference and no faffing with excesses.

PS the forum site suggests a split at Atherstone (saving pence) and Tamworth (saving £9) using the LNR Crewe service both ways, which adds an hour outward.